Tube Bass amps...

[DetroitBlues]

My bass player wanted me to ask our resident amp builder about a 250 to 350 watt bass tube driven bass amp. I've been trying to explain to him that the tube amps have a much more significant volume over the same wattage solid state amp. I told him that a Fender Bassman that was souped up to nearly 100 watts would be louder than a 200 watt solid state... Am I wrong? Can any of you bass players out there tell me if there really is a difference on bass?

[Franke]

yes, theoritically a 100 watt tube bass amp should be louder than a 200 watt SS amp.

 

However, from the bass players I talk to, a tube bass amp still needs a fairly high watt level (~ 80-200 watts) to be able to push those low frequencies clearerly.

 

I do know they all seem to really, really, REALLY love anything with KT-88 tubes in it.

[Guest HRB853370]

My Hartke 3500 has a tube in the preamp section. I think that is more common than having output tubes in a bass chassis.

[JackBaruth]

He may already understand that. The standard Ampeg SVT tube bass amp is a 300-watt amp.

 

Bass amps need a lot more wattage and a lot more cone area because low frequencies need more energy for the same decibel level.

 

Many solid-state bass amps in common use now are 800-1000 watts.

[barrymclark]

I used 200w-300w solid states with absolutely no issue at all.... in metal bands. So... it doesn't matter.

 

The whole loudness things really is over-rated in the argument of what is better. It really depends on your application. If you have to max out your volume, you have bought an undersized amp and tubes don't play into that. Now, if you prefer the tone of your system maxxed, then you have to get VERY picky on the setup so it's maxxed tone fits your common capacity of playing be it at home, a small club or mid sized venue.

 

SS power is different from Tube only in that SS tends to just do more of the same but louder. Tube tone's character tends to change with the more power you give it and that varies based on the system.

 

My preferred setup for years as a gigging bassist was a tube pre and a solid state power section. I'd run, generally, a 200w amp into a 4x10. It was usually SWR back in their day.

[rjsanders]

gigged last week w/my old Showman (85w rms) and a small Harbor Beach cab (PA-keys-bass, 1x10 + horn), old Gibson EB-0. on "2" it was fine for the small (100-human) club we did. loud drummer, too. rough guess: a friend's nice SS amp, 300w, would've been at around 5 for same sound level...

[Thundersteel]

I use a 400W G-K solid state amp. No problems here!

[barrymclark]

I use a 400W G-K solid state amp. No problems here!

 

Is it 400w the way you have it set up or just highest continuous rating? My GK was rated at 400w but through my cab\'s impedance it was under 250w.

[barrymclark]

 

Is it 400w the way you have it set up or just highest continuous rating? My GK was rated at 400w but through my cab\'s impedance it was under 250w.

 

Got my old amps confused. Sorry. My old 700rb was 350w only and the 700rb-ii was 350 the way I ran it.

 

I think I was thinking of my old SWR Studio. The way I had that run was was like 200w. The Red Face I had was 350w into my Henry 8x8.

[Thundersteel]

I was a bit off on the power rating. I've got the 700RB-II which is rated for 480W into 4Ω, plus an additional 50W for the horn. I'm using two 8Ω cabinets, so I'm guessing I've got the full rated output power if they're connected in parallel.

 

But as far as tube bass amps, or amps in general, I always thought a watt was a watt, regradless of whether it's solid state or tube.

[barrymclark]

I was a bit off on the power rating. I\'ve got the 700RB-II which is rated for 480W into 4Ω' date=' plus an additional 50W for the horn. I\'m using two 8Ω cabinets, so I\'m guessing I\'ve got the full rated output power if they\'re connected in parallel.

 

But as far as tube bass amps, or amps in general, I always thought a watt was a watt, regradless of whether it\'s solid state or tube.[/quote']

 

Yeah. This really isn\'t as big a deal as some make it. A 200w to 300w solid state bass amp should be plenty for METAL. I know. I\'ve done it. The volume pretty well never got over halfway. Now, I can see needing freakish power if you don\'t run to house or mic up. I did that. SWR Power750 into an SWR Hank Jr and SWR Bigfoot. For that I used the SWR Interstellar Overdrive pre.

[bolero]

well tube amps are ( were ) usually rated for clean power...so if you crank them up they'll often go louder than the specs. and get more compressed, which probably affects the perceived volume.

 

true even with guitar amps...ie: I think it's common for '70's marshall 100w heads to sometimes put out ~150w on a scope

 

a SS amp will usually clip badly & start to sound like crap once you go beyond it's design parameters. so it has a hard ceiling while the tube amp can actually start to sound "sweeter" as it gets pushed. combined with the extra volume maybe this is why

 

-->after using a vintage 300w SVT head for a number of years, I downsized to a Traynor YBA3 custom special...which is only rated for about 130w. but it has more than enough volume for any situation I've ever played in.

 

Ampeg V4B is another legendary head that is only ~100w or so. but I'm sure it would fit the bill for any application. I saw a guy playing a V4B into a SWR 4x10 & it sounded massive. volume dial was at about 9 o'clock

 

I have used a G&K 400RB head too & it had to be turned up quite high to match the live band levels, comparatively

 

 

 

in my experience to reach the same apparent volume of a tube bass amp, SS bass amps seem to need more juice.

[barrymclark]

well tube amps are ( were ) usually rated for clean power...so if you crank them up they\'ll often go louder than the specs. and get more compressed' date=' which probably affects the perceived volume.

 

true even with guitar amps...ie: I think it\'s common for \'70\'s marshall 100w heads to sometimes put out ~150w on a scope

 

a SS amp will usually clip badly & start to sound like crap once you go beyond it\'s design parameters. so it has a hard ceiling while the tube amp can actually start to sound \"sweeter\" as it gets pushed. combined with the extra volume maybe this is why

 

-->after using a vintage 300w SVT head for a number of years, I downsized to a Traynor YBA3 custom special...which is only rated for about 130w. but it has more than enough volume for any situation I\'ve ever played in.

 

Ampeg V4B is another legendary head that is only ~100w or so. but I\'m sure it would fit the bill for any application. I saw a guy playing a V4B into a SWR 4x10 & it sounded massive. volume dial was at about 9 o\'clock

 

I have used a G&K 400RB head too & it had to be turned up quite high to match the live band levels, comparatively

 

in my experience to reach the same apparent volume of a tube bass amp, SS bass amps seem to need more juice.[/quote']

 

I think where I stray from others with regards to the power thing is that I honestly don\'t care which creates more apparent volume. All I care about is whether or not the amp can be loud enough to do what I need it to do and produce a I tone I want it to produce at those volumes. You are right on everything said, but I think people read that as a superiority when they are just two different approaches to the same place. The only time I care about the volume dial is if I am maxxed and it either isn\'t enough or doesn\'t sound pleasing.

 

That may be why I like SS amps. My JC120 I can crank to painfully loud volumes or I can turn it down low enough for night time playing (barely cracked from all the way down). That is certainly why the Jet City sat most of the time and didn\'t get played. The volume that I liked meant it could only be during the day and when no one else was at home. That was about never.

 

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[bolero]

I honestly don\'t care which creates more apparent volume. All I care about is whether or not the amp can be loud enough to do what I need it to do and produce a I tone I want it to produce at those volumes.

 

BINGO....that's all that matters, really!!

 

--->another thing I thought of: SS amps are designed to have max power when the volume ctrl is full out.

 

(old) tube amps probably hit their clean max power when the volume ctrl is at 10 o'clock or lower. beyond that it's distorting/compressing but in a musically good way, to our ears.

 

so that explains why you need to crank a SS amp to get the same relative volume as a tube amp on 3

[fretless]

I've had so many many amps over the years I've lost count , all of which I've played bass through '75 Svt (85 lbs) wall of sound , '75 Hiwatt DR103 Loud & clean , '73 JMP 50 watt ( my fav ) shockingly loud , GK 800 RB will never let you down , newfangled mini amps , Markbass , GK , TCE kick much ass . Back in the day you needed massive stage volume but not so true anymore . Infact we have come to learn the less stage volume the better mix can be had with FOH so you don't really need to cut a swath of 75 feet or more with a 8x10 or 2x15 especially in a small club , forgetaboutit . Some ss amps are stupid loud compared to others and manufactures do use different terms for their amps and sometimes fudge those ratings to seem better. Much has to do with the speaker / cabinet efficiency . Some cabinets will eat the power right up and seem weak next to other rigs . These days as a bass player we don't have to carry 300 lbs of gear anymore . we have miniamps , super 12's and great tone . Good times for the bassist.

[DetroitBlues]

My bass player has high wattage rigs. He just wanted a vintage style tube amp, but he wants to make sure it can cut through... I like the idea that the wattage is for clean tones, when the tubes are cranked they distort, going above and beyond the rated wattage of the amp...