Finally played some Heritages, there was good and bad...

[Comancheplayer]

I had an unexpected day off today. So with nothing better to do my son and I decided to drive the 1.5 hours to the closest Heritage dealer and try a couple of the H150s he had on the wall.

 

Now I got the bug for a humbucker guitar last November and have been on the hunt for "the" one ever since.

 

I've spent numerous hours in local shops playing LP's, PRS's galore and to no avail. Everything I have played either played nice, or sounded good through my amp, but never both from the same guitar. I even spent 2 3+ hour sessions in the local GC playing every U.S. LP and PRS on the wall, nothing stole my heart.

 

So I get turned onto Heritage via research and the HOC forum. They really have my interest so I start looking. Sure I'm not going to buy, or order a new one with out playing one first I start the used market search. The problem with this is I'm so admittedly picky buying used for me is a hard sell. Then today happened...

 

My son and I got down there and the people were friendly enough. He had 3 H150s A solid black, a rootbeer, and a walnut burst.

 

To sum it up, both great guitars as far as playability goes. They also both sounded great through my amp. When I started playing the first guitar, I couldn't believe how easily it played, very slick. Nothing I've played so far in the past 5 months felt like this. Then I realized it had 9's on it, I kind of felt bummed because I was certain all the GC stuff had 10s on it. So when I left I called GC and asked what they had on their guitars. According to them unless it's a signature model it has 9s on it. I was really surprised, the Heritages made an immediate impression on me as soon as I started playing them that nothing else has as far as feel. The SD 59 pups sounded really good and consistent between the 2 guitars and I liked them a lot. The way these guitars felt and sounded I could see me ordering a new Heritage, however, there is a but, and it's a big but...

 

I was disappointed in some of the craftsmanship. The finish on the body and neck seemed really nice. It was bright, smooth, real glassy, but the binding work on the neck and up at the nut was to me horrid. Both guitars had file marks on the binding between the nut and the first fret on the high e side of the neck. The binding was actually wavy in this spot on both guitars. The nut on the same end was not finished well, and again on both guitars.

 

The thing that really bothered me was the work done to match the binding to the frets down the length of the neck. It was aweful, and I'm not exaggerating. Now I know this is a very difficult process to get right on these guitars, but it just really looked sloppy. None of the nubs in the binding were actually what I would call blocked to the end of the frets. Most were concaved, came up short instead of flush with the top of the fret, and some were so concaved you could see the end of the fret peeking through the binding. So as far as ordering a new Heritage this really has me second guessing that idea. I don't think I would order one wanting the binding matched to the frets after what I saw today. In my mind it's too risky in the sense that it could come through and I wouldn't be happy with it. Playability and tone were again fantastic on both guitars, but this binding thing has me rethinking the whole humbucker landscape, AGAIN! Uh, it's kind of frustrating.

 

I was actually thinking of taking pics of these when I was there, but I didn't want to draw attention to the issues and get into the subject with the shop owner. So I decided against it.

 

So I think now I'm gonna keep looking, and if I find a Les Paul that speaks to me and it's visually what I want I'll pull the trigger, same with PRS. The problem is I've played a lot of them and have yet to find one.

 

As far as Heritage goes, I think after this I would only be comfortable buying a used one or an in stock guitar that I can get plenty of good pics of before I buy it so that I know exactly what to expect when it arrives on my door step. I'll definetley keep in touch with this shop for future arrivals, and make another trip down. It's not a bad drive and makes for a nice day away.

 

Until then, I'm still humbuckerless.

[pegleg32]

Darn Rick, I'm sorry that didn't turn out better for you. I currently have 2 150's, and a 535, plus I have owned another 535, and I don't recall this ever being an issue on the gits that I have owned, so maybe you just got ahold of a bad apple. I wouldn't give up on Heritage as I do think they are the best of the bunch when it comes to humbucking gits. Good luck in your search.

[eljay]

hi, rick. have you given any thought to attending psp in early august? you'd be able to see many Hs up close and likely be able to play every one of them, too. the factory tour is a kick in itself but the camraderie is priceless. penn to w mich seems like a doable drive. it's a thought. good luck w/ you quest!

[Comancheplayer]

hi, rick. have you given any thought to attending psp in early august? you'd be able to see many Hs up close and likely be able to play every one of them, too. the factory tour is a kick in itself but the camraderie is priceless. penn to w mich seems like a doable drive. it's a thought. good luck w/ you quest!

 

I would love to get to PSP, not sure if it could happen this year though. I start a new job tomorrow, so there won't be any vacation time available till next year.

[Comancheplayer]

I haven't given up them, I'm just not gonna jump into anything.

[Kuz]

Sorry about your luck, but a sample size of 3 guitars at a GC (which is not even an authorized dealer) should not negate all the good that Heritage produces.

 

I have 10 Heritages (and have owned 2 others as well) and short of a high cut nut, all of my Heritages have been flawless. That doesn't mean that the occasionally lemon doesn't get through, but I have special ordered 5 of mine and they have exceeded my expectations.

 

Remember Heritage is known as the "modern vintage" guitar company. If you want perfect flawless fit & finish look to PRS (I have two and they are great guitars) but they won't sound like a vintage classic. The MOST coveted guitars from Gibson all had their little "birth marks" but they had the TONE. Heritage is more concerned with tone then the eye candy appeal next. The standard line from Ren at Heritage is "Ah, yea, but how does it sound?"

 

All that said, if theses were new guitars from Heritage, then they should have been sent back as rejects.

[DetroitBlues]

Honestly, that is a tad bit on the picky side, but when the frets are being leveled, I'd expect the binding not to go up high on the fret. As for the nut, that is another issue. The nuts seldom are "finished" because they expect a dealer to finish them to the customers preference. Just my opinion.

[TalismanRich]

Comancheplayer,

 

That's an interesting comment about the nubs. I've watched them work a fretboard, from putting on the binding to trimming and putting in the marker dots.. They have a grinder that runs along the fretboard and follows the rise and fall at each fret. Once that is done, they will clean up any rough spots. I always wondered out the binding was applied. Now I've watched it being done. One side of a fretboard at a time by hand.

 

As long as the fret isn't unusually high (higher than the actual binding), the binding should pretty closely follow the fret's profile, regardless of the wire width.

 

I wish you had snapped a couple of pictures. It would be easier to see what you are seeing.

[Guest HRB853370]

Honestly, that is a tad bit on the picky side, but when the frets are being leveled, I'd expect the binding not to go up high on the fret. As for the nut, that is another issue. The nuts seldom are "finished" because they expect a dealer to finish them to the customers preference. Just my opinion.

 

I have never heard of a Heritage dealer finishing a nut DB. In fact, most do not even setup the guitar as it is expected to be setup at the factory. I know this was the case from the 150 I bought from Wolfe years ago. Did yours get the nut finished off when you bought it from your dealer?

[Spectrum13]

My SH575 came in 99.8% perfect from the factory. No tool marks, binding perfect. Gave Ren the specs. He set the bone nut "E" strings and heght at the 12th fret dead on. It has been said before: Heritage is making some of their best stuff ever in 2012.

[Comancheplayer]

Well guys, what can I say. This wasn't a GC by the way, this was a private dealer. I didn't ask to see the third h150 on the wall because the other 2 were what I was describing and by then I was really disappointed. I didn't go down there expecting to buy a guitar. However, I have put in a considerable amount of time on this and was really hoping this trip would end any doubt in my mind about just ordering the Heritage I want and being done with it. The problem is it hasn't.

 

I wish I would've just snapped pics also, but like I said I didn't want to get into a discussion about it with the shop owner, but I will fill ya in on another part of the story I left out just because even though it happened it really seemed to me like it was something that was better left out. So here it is...

 

My son will be 12 in December, he doesn't know a ton about guitars as he has his own interests. He has only seen one Les Paul up close in his life, and it's the one my friend has that actually got this humbucker gas of mine going. Any way, for you guys that have kids...

 

Do you know how they can pick out one thing they like about something no matter what it is, and thats how they remember that thing. Whether its a car, a gun, a fishing rod or reel. Everytime they see one from then on it's, "isn't that the one with the"... and what ever that special characteristic is. Well my son the first time he saw Marks LP he saw the binding on that guitar and thought it was coolest thing how the binding matched the frets. The next question out of his mouth was, "how come your Comanche doesn't have that"? So from then on, when ever he see's one, "that has the plastic at the frets" or he'll ask, "are the frets part of the plastic". He says something like that everytime, he just thinks that is so cool.

 

So now one of his hobbies is his pocket knife collection and he likes to try and widdle wood. Now heres the kicker, when he saw me examining the binding on that neck, he knew I didn't like it, The bitch was he said the very words I was thinking, "that looks like they tried that with a pocket knife". I about crapped my pants, I looked at him a little discerningly and told him to keep quiet. Out in the car then I explained that I didn't want to say anything to make the shop owner uncomfortable, or make him think I was trying to disgrace his product; but I'm telling ya guys it was pretty bad.

 

Now he had maybe 2 or 3 hollowbodies there as well, I didn't look at those either as I felt so let down that I didn't want to waste the shop owners time anymore, but I will keep in touch with them and if something of interest pops up I'll make another trip, I like the drive; but on my grandmothers grave the above happened and I almost fell off the stool when it did. So for me, if my 11 year old can pick up on it, it's a genuine issue.

[Thundersteel]

Sorry to hear about your experience. I've used to have an H157 that had similar binding work on the fretboard. The guitar looked stellar, and played great, but I couldn't get past the binding, so I sold it. My other Heritages, however, have been virtually flawless. In fact, the H555 I just sold was perfect in every way!

 

Just a suggestion--I don't mean to change the subject, but have you ever played a Hamer? They on par with, and even better than, their Gibby counterparts. I've got two for sale in case you're interested--see the For Sale threads for more info.

 

OK, back on topic now!

[Blunote]

Rick, your posts caused me to go look at two of my guitars that have bound fret boards. One is a Millennium Standard Ultra and the other is an H-150 Deluxe Ultra. You can see them in my gallery. Both are flawless.

 

The only thing I noticed was the Millie has a much thicker (3/32nds) white binding which gives the impression your son noticed on your friends LP -like the end of the fret is plastic. The H-150 has a much thinner binding (3/64ths). Even so, it neatly covers the fret end without any file marks being present. On further inspection, there's a small area on the horn of my Millie where the binding seems less defined. It's never bothered me and apart from that the guitars binding work was perfect. The must have been training a new guy when the two you saw were built.

 

I had the luxury of playing and inspecting the Millie when I bought it. The 150 deluxe was purchased new, sight unseen, from a dealer in Missouri. I wound up taking the 150 to Kalamazoo to have the nut re-cut and the input jack fixed shortly after I bought it. So, not perfect, but not a big issue and it gave me an excuse to tour the factory.

 

Over the last few years, I've seen several used Heritages on sale during trips to Elderly Instruments in Lansing. Honestly, there have been some that I didn't like. Even so, I'm pretty sure I could get one through Wolfe, or Mojo, or Elderly suited to my preferences. I'm also pretty sure if you shared your concerns about quality with Wolfe, that they'd make sure it was up to your standards before they'd send it on to you.

 

 

[DetroitBlues]

 

I have never heard of a Heritage dealer finishing a nut DB. In fact, most do not even setup the guitar as it is expected to be setup at the factory. I know this was the case from the 150 I bought from Wolfe years ago. Did yours get the nut finished off when you bought it from your dealer?

 

Considering I've only purchased second hand, that's hard to say, but the way I've seen the nuts at the factory, the final setup (which should include details such as the nut) should be addressed by the dealer prior to the sale. Any guitar store should offer such services on a new guitar.

[DetroitBlues]

Well guys, what can I say. This wasn't a GC by the way, this was a private dealer. I didn't ask to see the third h150 on the wall because the other 2 were what I was describing and by then I was really disappointed. I didn't go down there expecting to buy a guitar. However, I have put in a considerable amount of time on this and was really hoping this trip would end any doubt in my mind about just ordering the Heritage I want and being done with it. The problem is it hasn't.

 

I wish I would've just snapped pics also, but like I said I didn't want to get into a discussion about it with the shop owner, but I will fill ya in on another part of the story I left out just because even though it happened it really seemed to me like it was something that was better left out. So here it is...

 

My son will be 12 in December, he doesn't know a ton about guitars as he has his own interests. He has only seen one Les Paul up close in his life, and it's the one my friend has that actually got this humbucker gas of mine going. Any way, for you guys that have kids...

 

Do you know how they can pick out one thing they like about something no matter what it is, and thats how they remember that thing. Whether its a car, a gun, a fishing rod or reel. Everytime they see one from then on it's, "isn't that the one with the"... and what ever that special characteristic is. Well my son the first time he saw Marks LP he saw the binding on that guitar and thought it was coolest thing how the binding matched the frets. The next question out of his mouth was, "how come your Comanche doesn't have that"? So from then on, when ever he see's one, "that has the plastic at the frets" or he'll ask, "are the frets part of the plastic". He says something like that everytime, he just thinks that is so cool.

 

So now one of his hobbies is his pocket knife collection and he likes to try and widdle wood. Now heres the kicker, when he saw me examining the binding on that neck, he knew I didn't like it, The bitch was he said the very words I was thinking, "that looks like they tried that with a pocket knife". I about crapped my pants, I looked at him a little discerningly and told him to keep quiet. Out in the car then I explained that I didn't want to say anything to make the shop owner uncomfortable, or make him think I was trying to disgrace his product; but I'm telling ya guys it was pretty bad.

 

Now he had maybe 2 or 3 hollowbodies there as well, I didn't look at those either as I felt so let down that I didn't want to waste the shop owners time anymore, but I will keep in touch with them and if something of interest pops up I'll make another trip, I like the drive; but on my grandmothers grave the above happened and I almost fell off the stool when it did. So for me, if my 11 year old can pick up on it, it's a genuine issue.

 

sounds like only a gibson will do for him. I'm sure you can find him an Epiphone that will fit the bill as his first. Another option would be a Gibson Studio Tribute with humbuckers. Priced really well and looks pretty good too. If binding was an issue, it can be taken care of I'd imagine by sending it back to Heritage to be fixed. That would be a cool road trip too. Take your son to the factory, see how they are made, and have them address your binding on the spot. I bet Marv and the gang will help you out if you ask ahead of time...

[kbp810]

Were these new or used guitars?

 

I just ask as some luthiers/shops doing fret files and dresses don't always treat the binding at the frets very well... just something that came to my mind as I was reading the thread as a possibility. (not saying this is the case, just plausible)

 

Either way, as Kuz mentioned, they are built in the old style and imperfections are always possible (I might be alone on this, but I actually like a few minor cosmetic flaws, it reminds me that my guitar was handmade by humans ) ; though if you did custom order one, I am confident that they would get it right. As an added safety net you could always have your concern referenced on the order as well... and if they happened to not get it right, I'm confident that they would make it right. They take a tremendous deal of pride in what they do and what they build.

[Joe]

This thread seems strange to me. Why nit-pick used guitars to this degree?

[Blunote]

This thread seems strange to me. Why nit-pick used guitars to this degree?

I got the sense they were new in-stock guitars.

[DetroitBlues]

This thread seems strange to me. Why nit-pick used guitars to this degree?

 

Since it is a Heritage forum, we are all a little biased and defensive of our precious Heritage collections...

[Blunote]

On the subject of fret ends. Some prefer theirs to be dressed this way:

[DetroitBlues]

On the subject of fret ends. Some prefer theirs to be dressed this way:

 

Wow, wish more guitars were dressed like that!

[Comancheplayer]

This thread seems strange to me. Why nit-pick used guitars to this degree?

 

These are new in stock guitars. I talked to the shop owner today, it was an interesting conversation. While the guitars are new, he has had them on the wall for a while. Longer than I thought actually, and it doesn't seem he is real knowledgeable on how the nubs can or should look.

 

When I asked to talk to him about it because there was somehting bothering me, he offered to get one of the guitars down and inspect it while we talked. He saw the issue I was referring to and agreed that it wasn't appealing. The problem in the conversation was to him the nubs looked like they should have been cut off level with the rest of the binding and some one left what he called, "unfinished binding" at the end of each fret. When he first saw it he asked, "why did they leave the binding go part way up the fret like that"?

 

So while were not quite on the same page as to how it should look, he does agree that there is a problem. I called him because, on a site I frequent a Heritage rep has chimed in and wants to talk to the shop and fix the problem. I called the shop to discuss it an make sure it was okay to pass on his name, to which the shop owner is fine with it. Although the shop owner only seems willing to have them fixed if they are sold, which I can understand.

[sykofiddle]

.02

 

Guitars are in many ways living, breathing things. And the humans who make them even more so. My point is that error exists from time to time. I've played some Gibsons off the shelf that were utter shite. And some Fender custom shops as well. If I had to put money on it, I'd bet that Heritage's quality control is at or beyond custom shop stuff from the big boys. My advice (not that you asked.... :-) )....if you're intrigued by Heritage, buy one from Wolfe. Between them and Heritage you've got supreme customer relations. And who can beat that?

[Comancheplayer]

.02

 

Guitars are in many ways living, breathing things. And the humans who make them even more so. My point is that error exists from time to time. I've played some Gibsons off the shelf that were utter shite. And some Fender custom shops as well. If I had to put money on it, I'd bet that Heritage's quality control is at or beyond custom shop stuff from the big boys. My advice (not that you asked.... :-) )....if you're intrigued by Heritage, buy one from Wolfe. Between them and Heritage you've got supreme customer relations. And who can beat that?

 

This will probably be the route I will go if it happens. When I talked to the shop owner today, he did not give me the warm and fuzzies that Wolfes did when speaking with them. They handle all instruments, and so I don't think guitars are where is strength lies.

[sykofiddle]

I think that makes sense Rick. I was also thinking after my last post...one thing that will surely make fret ends and binding not agree is poor humidification of instruments in the winter months, which you tend to find in stores that don't care about their guitars (I won't mention any names, but the Walmart equivalent comes to mind....).