Finally played some Heritages, there was good and bad...

[the jayce]

Just wanted to follow up with one more comment on this subject and them im moving on to another thread, and that is i have seen some heritages that where basically as flawless as you can get by hand too. Heritage is a master builder of hand made guitars, just dont buy one made on friday at 1:55 pm! ..................................................................................(sorry couldnt resist) For anyone thats considering buying a heritage, you cant find a better guitar, and if it has a little personality in it's finish somewhere..Good! Makes it that much more unique and a one of a kind.

[sykofiddle]

I agree with Jayce. I've played probably 20 Heritages in the last two years. I'm 48, and I've been playing since I was nine - mostly acoustic, but electric here and there. That doesn't make me anything special - it just means I know a good guitar, I think.

 

The other thing I'd add about Heritage that makes me committed: The necks. You can't fake a good neck. And you can't fully machine one. It's hand work. I don't know because I don't build guitars, but I know a good neck when I feel one and Heritage's necks are up there with Collings, Santa Cruz, and pretty much any other electric I've played.

[TalismanRich]

Rick,

Made it home safe and sound. I promised to post picks of my neck binding. Here are the fret nibs on the Mille LE and the H157. The Mille is 12 years old, the 157 is 9 years old. I also took pics of the Melancon.

 

Does this look anything like the ones you looked at?

 

Mille LE

 

Here's the H157

 

Here's the fretwork on the Melancon

 

[the jayce]

I agree with Jayce. I've played probably 20 Heritages in the last two years. I'm 48, and I've been playing since I was nine - mostly acoustic, but electric here and there. That doesn't make me anything special - it just means I know a good guitar, I think.

 

The other thing I'd add about Heritage that makes me committed: The necks. You can't fake a good neck. And you can't fully machine one. It's hand work. I don't know because I don't build guitars, but I know a good neck when I feel one and Heritage's necks are up there with Collings, Santa Cruz, and pretty much any other electric I've played.

Agreed 100%

[Thundersteel]

Except for some minor stray file marks, I don't see anything wrong in those pictures! My Les Paul and Hamers are like that, too (no file marks, though).

[iim7v7im7]

Here is my 2001 Sweet 16 (below). You can see that there is some modest seperation due to wood shrinkage which is very typical of an older instrument. You can also see that the nibs (I repeat nibs and not nubs) are reasonably shaped to match the fret wire. You also can see the typical stress relaxation fracture mechanics in the binding where the dots are. This happens to ABS binding. So not that this any way nullifies what the OP encountered, but this seems fairly typical of what comes out of the factory. I would not classify it as perfect but as a high quality, small factory, hand crafted instrument.

 

I have also experienced some quality issues from Heritage on my 2009 H-535 which were discussed here on the forum a number of years ago. The quality defects related to a poorly manufactured nut, asymmetric tuning machine location , over buffing of the binding and a sanded depression in the fretboard. I was just unlucky on my custom build. That being said, after some TLC from a skilled luthier, it is a wonderful instrument to play and the defects are a distant memory drowned out by a toneful instrument. I believe defects like these to be few and far between.

 

I would recommend Heritage to anyone considering a high quality, small factory, hand made instrument in the Gibson school of design. There just isn't much out there that can compete with them. There are better finsihed guitars, but they don't play or sound as good in my experience or the price point is 2-3x.

 

[Buckyrock]

Comancheplayer,

 

I am real picky when in comes to the binding nibs on these style of guitars. I have gotten rid of Les Paul Customs in the past because of it. Last year I had a H157 built by Heritage, and a smooth transition from the fret to binding was specified in my order. By this I mean that the skinny e string can be "rolled" off the fret board and back on with noticing the transition from metal to plastic. On last years build, Heritage did a wonderful job - it turned out perfect. It is the best guitar I've every played or owned, and I've probably owned 50+ over 35 years.

 

Of all the Gibson and Heritage guitars that I have played or inspected, I find about half unacceptable to me in this regard (fret/binding interaction). Most people think I am nuts, I probably am.

 

This year, I had another H157 built. I just got it, and the nib work is no way as good as last years guitar. I just dropped it off at the shop where I bought it. The guy there thinks he can fix it. If he can't, it will be going back to Heritage.

 

I should add that for me it's not about how it looks. it is about how it feels. I can't judge the fret/binding transition by sight - I must feel it. I'm ok with filemarks (within reason) but it needs to play good.

 

I should that last years guitar took about 200 days for the build, and this years took 94 days.

 

So, specifiy what you want and have it built. If it's not up to par, return it or have them fix it. They can and do build wonderful instruments. Life is short, take a chance. Live a little.

[bolero]

on my 157 I asked for no nibs...just fretted across the whole board...I find nibs annoying when you hit the crack....plus you lose playing area so they aren't functional at all

 

 

 

 

 

 

if I ever get a bound gtr refretted I do the same

 

150's have much thinner neck binding though, so it's less intrusive

[Buckyrock]

Bolero = smart.

 

next time, that's what I will do.

[Kuz]

Here is my 2001 Sweet 16 (below). You can see that there is some modest seperation due to wood shrinkage which is very typical of an older instrument. You can also see that the nibs (I repeat nibs and not nubs) are reasonably shaped to match the fret wire. You also can see the typical stress relaxation fracture mechanics in the binding where the dots are. This happens to ABS binding. So not that this any way nullifies what the OP encountered, but this seems fairly typical of what comes out of the factory. I would not classify it as perfect but as a high quality, small factory, hand crafted instrument.

 

I have also experienced some quality issues from Heritage on my 2009 H-535 which were discussed here on the forum a number of years ago. The quality defects related to a poorly manufactured nut, asymmetric tuning machine location , over buffing of the binding and a sanded depression in the fretboard. I was just unlucky on my custom build. That being said, after some TLC from a skilled luthier, it is a wonderful instrument to play and the defects are a distant memory drowned out by a toneful instrument. I believe defects like these to be few and far between.

 

I would recommend Heritage to anyone considering a high quality, small factory, hand made instrument in the Gibson school of design. There just isn't much out there that can compete with them. There are better finsihed guitars, but they don't play or sound as good in my experience or the price point is 2-3x.

 

 

Maybe it's just my eyes, but Bob I can't see anything wrong in this picture.

 

It looks perfect to me.

 

Could you circle the areas that aren't perfect.

 

Thanks.

[iim7v7im7]

John,

 

my photography skills are stuggling a bit. You can see the splits in the binding here. The other imperfections relate to small gaps between the binding at the nibs and the fret wire (very small gaps, say .002-.003") and the sign of tool marks where the nibs where shaped. That is I said that I would not classify it as perfect but as a high quality, small factory, hand crafted instrument (which is pretty darn good!). Perfect is saved for custom instruments where that last degree of finsihing and attention is applied (at a price, of course).

 

 

The issues that we discussed a few years ago on my H-535 were more serious. The image below are plek scans of the e, b and g strings on both my Sweet 16 (left) and my H-535 (right) pre-plek at my luthier. Note the depression in the fretboard between frets 6-10 on the H-535. Phil Jacobly had to remove the original fret wire from frets 6-10 and replace it with taller wire in order to reach the theoretical arch. The depression is not repairable short of a new neck or a complete refret and sanding. My Sweet 16 on the other hand was pretty close to theoretically perfect, pre-plek. So the guys at 225 are capable of close to perfection and sometimes, some unacceptable stuff IMO. A depression of this magnitude is from over sanding or sanding and not being careful.

 

 

This is the headstock on the H-535. You can see that the e, b and g tuning machines were drilled closer the the edge than the e, a and d string tuning machines. I had the have the nut slots custom cut to have consistent takeaway angles to the tuners as a result. In terms of over buffing, take a look at the corner of the headstock near est the high e tuner and compare the binding to the opposite side. These types of quality issues should not be let out of the door.

 

 

Now CONTEXT please....

 

Some time has passed and I love playing this guitar and plays and sounds great. I would just say that occasionally, some issues get out of the factory when they should not have.

 

My $.02,

 

Bob

[Comancheplayer]

Sorry to have taken so long to respond guys, but the honeydo list has grown a little and well you know how that goes.

 

Anyway...

 

John and Rich, I gotta say you guys have some really nice stuff there including the nibs. If the nubs on the two guitars I played would have been half of what you are showing in your pics I wouldn't be saying a word. These nibs were that bad, if you can use your imagination and try to picture your nibs for a second I will describe a picture of what I saw.

 

Take a look at your nibs and picture taking a round file and running it along the nibs down the length of the neck until the nibs were concave shaped. In most instances they didn't make it to the top of the fret. Then when you looked at the same nibs from the end of the fret you could actually see the end of the frett poking through what was left of the nib. There wasn't a single one on either guitar that was close to what you have in your pics. Some of them when looking at them from the end of the fret actually had a round hole in the nib that allowed the fret end to poke through. I'm really wishing I would've taken a pic now, but it is what it is.

 

Had these guitars had anything close to what you have in your pics I wouldn't be saying a word. In fact, I may have bought the walnut burst.

[michaeljames]

i'm glad i didn't make that (or those) trips. no offense. i'm just glad i didn't make 'em.

i got scared and checked out the ones i own today...all good. i hope everyone is staying cool!

happy 4th ~

[Guest HRB853370]

 

CommanchePlayer, I don't doubt you saw what you saw, and that's a shame. You were right to not just take it for what it is, and settle for it. I also echo most comments here that this issue is more the exception, rather than the rule. Don't let this experience scare you off from one of the best models (OK, "THE" best, haha) out there.

 

If the Heritage rep you are referring to is who I THINK he is, well, let's just say he's a very strong personality that is very passionate about Heritage guitars, knows them in and out, and WILL see that the defects are rectified. FUGGETABOUTIT!

 

Heritage has reps? Sure didn't know that! Thought they were too small a company to hire a rep.

[michaeljames]

and the other side

[michaeljames]

the other side of the fb ~ looks good to me......

 

[sykofiddle]

Commanche, from what you describe that sounds like a hatchet job of an attempt at filling the fret ends. I wonder about the actual history of these guitars after they left the Heritage shop.

[Comancheplayer]

Commanche, from what you describe that sounds like a hatchet job of an attempt at filling the fret ends. I wonder about the actual history of these guitars after they left the Heritage shop.

 

 

I kind of am doing the same the more I think about it.