Guest HRB853370 Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Is it normal for a 65 Super Reverb RI to start breaking up at around 4.5 with the guitar volume pot maxed out? I have tried this with different humbucker equipped guitars, and the same result. It is very loud, just not clean!
Trouble Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 My 66 breaks up around 5 on the high sensitiviy input, which would be the one labeled 1, I tried one of the re issues when they first came out and seems like they had a bit more headroom than mine, but can't remember for sure. I had to have mine re built and I think it may be a little dirtier than stock, which with this amp is probably not a good thing. Not sure if that helps.
111518 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Is it normal for a 65 Super Reverb RI to start breaking up at around 4.5 with the guitar volume pot maxed out? I have tried this with different humbucker equipped guitars, and the same result. It is very loud, just not clean! Not the expert that many here are, but when a tube amp starts distorting earlier than I expect, and 4.5 on a Super seems early, I've learned to suspect that I have a power tube starting to go. A tell-tale sign is that one tube will be hotter than the others --BE CAREFUL, easy to blister a finger, you don't have to actually touch the tube often to tell if one running hotter.
Guest HRB853370 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Not the expert that many here are, but when a tube amp starts distorting earlier than I expect, and 4.5 on a Super seems early, I've learned to suspect that I have a power tube starting to go. A tell-tale sign is that one tube will be hotter than the others --BE CAREFUL, easy to blister a finger, you don't have to actually touch the tube often to tell if one running hotter. Would the pencil test be useful Larry? Tapping on it to see if the tube makes a sound throught the speaker?
111518 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Would the pencil test be useful Larry? Tapping on it to see if the tube makes a sound throught the speaker? Again, there are many guys here that know a lot more about how amps work than I do, but, as I understand it, the pencil test checks for microphonics --a problem that creates noise from vibration, more than early distortion. A failing tube might also be more microphonic, but a tube that is drawing way more current than other power tubes creates heat and distortion --often just looks different --"lit up."
plexirocker 68 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Is it normal for a 65 Super Reverb RI to start breaking up at around 4.5 with the guitar volume pot maxed out? I have tried this with different humbucker equipped guitars, and the same result. It is very loud, just not clean! Yes, this is very easy. I suspect it's simply hotter pickups. Your hitting the front of the pre amp with more gain from the buckers. First question is how hot or not are your pickups? Are you using low wind PAF types or something like a Duncan 59' ? Big diifference it output between say a 8.0k wind to a 8.5 or if your pickups are set real high Plug into the low gain input 2 for keeping the buckers clean and see what happens, I suspect it will be just fine Pre amp tubes have a lot to do with gaining up those inputs, thats a whole other deal and I doubt tubes are a problem in this case plexi
Guest HRB853370 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Yes, this is very easy. I suspect it's simply hotter pickups. Your hitting the front of the pre amp with more gain from the buckers. First question is how hot or not are your pickups? Are you using low wind PAF types or something like a Duncan 59' ? Big diifference it output between say a 8.0k wind to a 8.5 or if your pickups are set real high Plug into the low gain input 2 for keeping the buckers clean and see what happens, I suspect it will be just fine Pre amp tubes have a lot to do with gaining up those inputs, thats a whole other deal and I doubt tubes are a problem in this case plexi Thanks!!!
zguitar71 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 The break up starting around 4.5 sounds about right to me. I have played through quite a few black face type amps including supers as well as silver face and tweeds. The dial number is not that relevant the volume level is and at that leve it is surely loud. It should be pretty loud when it starts to break up. I have found Amps that big are far too loud for me in small club settings to get the breakup I want. That is with a drummer, bass and singer. So maybe that give an idea of the headroom you should have before breakup. find an identicle amp and play your guitar through it and see if it has the headroom yours does but do not worry about the dial number, the pots are going to vary from amp to amp. Do be aware that going into a try out room at a store will not be the same to your ears as your house or stage by you can still get a good idea.
GuitArtMan Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 My 66 did the same thing, as does just about every vintage Fender I've played except for twins - they never break up! That's part of the magic of vintage Fender amps, that transition from clean to dirty.
Trouble Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Not the expert that many here are, but when a tube amp starts distorting earlier than I expect, and 4.5 on a Super seems early, I've learned to suspect that I have a power tube starting to go. A tell-tale sign is that one tube will be hotter than the others --BE CAREFUL, easy to blister a finger, you don't have to actually touch the tube often to tell if one running hotter. While it's entirely possible he could have a bad tube and this sounds like sound advice to me, I really think its just a characteristic of this amp. There is a definate difference in breakup between the 59's in my 150 and the much hotter picups in my SG, but it still breaks up around the same spot on the dial with both, even my strat will be a little dirty at that volume, the charachter of the breakup changes with each guitar but the distortion is still there, making me think that it is just the way this amp is. I do expect that someone willing to experiment with different tubes could tweak it for more headroom. Reading Big Bobs thread made me wonder what changing rec tubes in my Super might do. Again, this is all based on my personal amp. The half hour or so I spent with a Re issue years ago is pretty hazy in my memory, I do remember that when I played it it felt different than my amp, but not completely sure how now. Yes, this is very easy. I suspect it's simply hotter pickups. Your hitting the front of the pre amp with more gain from the buckers. First question is how hot or not are your pickups? Are you using low wind PAF types or something like a Duncan 59' ? Big diifference it output between say a 8.0k wind to a 8.5 or if your pickups are set real high Plug into the low gain input 2 for keeping the buckers clean and see what happens, I suspect it will be just fine Pre amp tubes have a lot to do with gaining up those inputs, thats a whole other deal and I doubt tubes are a problem in this case plexi I always use the "2" input, no matter what guitar I'm playing. Kinda what I said above but I would love to see the results of someone tube swapping with a Super. My 66 did the same thing, as does just about every vintage Fender I've played except for twins - they never break up! That's part of the magic of vintage Fender amps, that transition from clean to dirty. Yep, Twins are clean Super's not so much. I love my Super though, when I do take it out it's really fun!
zguitar71 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 You can change the v1 tube from an ax7 to an au7 or at7 or ay7 and change the headroom. All will provide more but the extent depends on the type you go with. However, I think you will loose some tone changing from the 12ax7, the v1 position gives much of the tone, more than any other tube change. If you change the rectifier tube you can get a little different breakup style but I have not found much more headroom. Be carefully about voltage and rec tubes, 6l6 tunes will take gz34 but some 6v6's will not in certain circuits, I blew through 2 tung sol's before I learned this. I prefer 5y3 rec tubes because the break up sound more organic or less gainey to me. I have heard that 5y3 and 6l6 tubes do not mix well due to a voltage thing. Not sure why since the 5y3 is a lower voltage tube.
Trouble Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 You can change the v1 tube from an ax7 to an au7 or at7 or ay7 and change the headroom. All will provide more but the extent depends on the type you go with. However, I think you will loose some tone changing from the 12ax7, the v1 position gives much of the tone, more than any other tube change. If you change the rectifier tube you can get a little different breakup style but I have not found much more headroom. Be carefully about voltage and rec tubes, 6l6 tunes will take gz34 but some 6v6's will not in certain circuits, I blew through 2 tung sol's before I learned this. I prefer 5y3 rec tubes because the break up sound more organic or less gainey to me. I have heard that 5y3 and 6l6 tubes do not mix well due to a voltage thing. Not sure why since the 5y3 is a lower voltage tube. If I remember right (too lazy to go look) my rec was a 5y3 origanally, and was replaced by a gz 34 when rebuilt, but I believe the transformer was replaced then as well which could have increased output a little. If the amp was biased too hot could this also add to the early breakup? Just a thought. I still think that a Super is a Super, they're just not really clean amps, but I love them.
zguitar71 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I biased the fixed (22 watt) side of my Carr to much on the hot side and it did loose headroom. The tone was crappy and the breakup was very muddy, it was remarkable how bad the amp sounded. Maybe it is biased a little hot so it still sounds good but lost some headroom.
DetroitBlues Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 What I didn't know about the Reverb Deluxe was the 2nd imput was a lower impendance (or is it higher?) But essentially, the first input is for single coil guitars and the 2nd input is for humbucker guitars. That way you still get the high clean headroom before the breakup. Did you try that first Will?
Guest HRB853370 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 What I didn't know about the Reverb Deluxe was the 2nd imput was a lower impendance (or is it higher?) But essentially, the first input is for single coil guitars and the 2nd input is for humbucker guitars. That way you still get the high clean headroom before the breakup. Did you try that first Will? It is cleaner on input 2 for sure. But input one is normal with no reverb or trem and 2 has the efx.
DetroitBlues Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 It is cleaner on input 2 for sure. But input one is normal with no reverb or trem and 2 has the efx. there isn't four inputs? Two for each channel? The 2nd guitar input for each channel should be the one used for a humbucker guitar.
Guest HRB853370 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 there isn't four inputs? Two for each channel? The 2nd guitar input for each channel should be the one used for a humbucker guitar. Whoops, you are correct DB. Normal channel and Vibrato channel, two inputs each. Thanks.
Trouble Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Whoops, you are correct DB. Normal channel and Vibrato channel, two inputs each. Thanks. Input "2" on either channel has more headroom. I use input 2 with any guitar I play. On the Vibrato channel.
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