tsp17 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Spec'ing my KBP head/cab build. Would like to hear this group's thoughts on the pros and cons of the above power tubes prior to making the final call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I believe they are all interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 in my limited experience... I'd go with a KT66 myself...is it single ended or 2 tubes? 6L6's are great though, can't go wrong with them 6550's are sort of clean, great for headroom, wide response KT88's are like big 6550's KT66's are like a cross between an EL34 & a 6L6, but with extended bass. they are actually close to a 6L6 why aren't you considering EL34's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_hall Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 How much money do you have and how much/often are willing to part with it? Using the tube that has the greatest availability should be a factor for the long run. They are all going to burn out and then when you have to replace them, you're going to see what is available for what you have to spend. Are you going to pay a premium then for a choice now? Is the tube selection you choose going to be masked by speaker and enclosure you choose to follow? Do the tubes have to cook to bring out the tone you want? Are you looking for clean headroom or early breakup? The majority of the time you will hear this amp, what will be its normal level driving the speaker? The tubes, as well as the amp design, all have tradeoffs. What is important to you and what are you willing to let go marginal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsp17 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 this amp is for jazz and fusion. i have pedals to tweak tone if necessary. looking for a Twin Reverb type sound out of a much smaller and lower watt package. Kind of like a Heritage Liberty, Princeton on steroids, or Super Reverb. Clean, warm, articulate. This project will be a head and matching 1x12 cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushover Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 My Music Man is designed for 6L6's, but the new tubes can't handle it's high voltage. The only modern tube I could find that could handle the voltage was the EL34L's. I did an A/B comparison between the two, and to my ear the EL34's aren't quite as clean as the 6L6's, and in this amp for me that was good. My suggestion is to tell KBP what tone you're looking for and trust that he'll steer you the right way. There are lots of variables... And just to really mess you up, my own experience is that the speakers make more difference than I could tell with the tubes! I've been on my quest for the perfect tone for 30 years, and unfortunately I have determined that the perfect tone occurs when someone other than me is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 My Music Man is designed for 6L6's, but the new tubes can't handle it's high voltage. The only modern tube I could find that could handle the voltage was the EL34L's. I did an A/B comparison between the two, and to my ear the EL34's aren't quite as clean as the 6L6's, and in this amp for me that was good. My suggestion is to tell KBP what tone you're looking for and trust that he'll steer you the right way. There are lots of variables... And just to really mess you up, my own experience is that the speakers make more difference than I could tell with the tubes! I've been on my quest for the perfect tone for 30 years, and unfortunately I have determined that the perfect tone occurs when someone other than me is playing. The el34s in my sound city are squeaky clean, crisp, and headroom for days!!! Takes pedals fantastic....... And is louder than God himself. However in my class A chapenstein the 6l6 is cleanest and offers the most headroom. Go figger. I'm with pushover tell Brian what sound you are after and I'm sure he will guide you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Big headroom, warm, big sound all that makes me think of the 6550/kt88, immediately. Not a lot of difference electrically between them, and the new production ones are good. Big bottom end, means that the amp can be tuned in the preamp for a bit less bass response, that will open up the mids and top end as well as the harmonic content. Think Alessandro Greyhound, a quintessential tube jazz amp, not a boat anchor for the power it can put out, and godly tones. Simple circuit built out of super top end parts, especially the transformers. Low wattage? nah. Takes heavy iron to run them 6550's/kt88 single ended or push pull. For something lighter in weight but with the capability of handling similar needs at lower wattage and amp weight , I'd look for 6l6. Personally, (and I mean personally,) If I played Jazz and was a tone junkie, I'd go for a lower b+ voltage tranny so I could run the old coke bottle 6l6's and 6l6gb's, they are a bucket list item for your ears. A pair of 6l6gc's in a 35-50 watt grab and go combo circuit will have more headroom in most instances than a pair of el34's, and the el34's in some instances might not have any more headroom than the old glass lower wattage 6l6g, 6l6ga, (19 watts). or 6l6gb (22 watts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dog Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Whether those tubes are safely interchangeable depends on the power transformer, if I remember correctly. I had a Kingsley deluxe 30 custom that would take 6550 as well as 6L6, but the builder said the extra power requirement of the 6550 pushed the PT to its limit. At least in that amp, the 6550 sounded wonderful. There really is no way to tell which tube is best until you hear the actual amp. If you want to try higher power rated tubes like that, make sure the builder knows what you have in mind, uses a powerful enough PT. MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsp17 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Big headroom, warm, big sound all that makes me think of the 6550/kt88, immediately. Not a lot of difference electrically between them, and the new production ones are good. Big bottom end, means that the amp can be tuned in the preamp for a bit less bass response, that will open up the mids and top end as well as the harmonic content. Think Alessandro Greyhound, a quintessential tube jazz amp, not a boat anchor for the power it can put out, and godly tones. Simple circuit built out of super top end parts, especially the transformers. one of those we are looking at as an example is the Comins Alessandro Jazz Amp head. similar to the Greyhound or a Super Reverb head with 6650s instead of 6L6. That's what got me thinking 6550. Here is an excellent review of the Alessandro Greyhound by a Heritage player. http://www.alessandro-products.com/reviews-JJG_Italian.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Yep, let KBP help you choose. You won't regret it! Personally, I like the KT66 or 88. He created a special one off with a single KT88. That was a killer amp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The PT issues with the different types often originate from heater current draw. A 6l6 draws about 900ma heater current, el34 1400, and the bigger tubes 1500 and higher in some instances. Power tranny heater tap overloads and craps out. No heater, no tube operation. Done. Time to spend more of your money...lots of it. Also, pins 1 and 8 on the power tube socket(s) must be connected on an amp that originally came with 6l6's for the el34, 6550, and kt88 to operate properly. Easy to do, even in a PCB amp in most cases. We haven't heard from him often recently but our own HOC member Jack Zucker is IMHO more than skilled in Jazz, Bebop, occasionally has played Heritage guitars, and his lively fingers have been a major player in the Dumble clone amp world, notably an influence in aiding development of a current layout for one d-clone circuit type at least. I am no Jazz player, but my H516 is a smallish hollowbody 16 incher, and it sounds heavenly through either my 50w OTS or HRM circuits, HRM running el34 with a c-lator tube buffer in the loop and OTS running 6bg6ga blackplate early 6l6 type with no fx loop buffer. Either amp has a jazz setting on a rock/jazz toggle switch, and setting that switch to the jazz side on a hollowbody will send you ruuuuuuuuunning for a pair of depends to strap on it sounds so good...Rock side is too thunky and boomy with a hollow body, and more gain for the same knob seeing.. The next amp to arrive for me will also be a head, 100 watter 6l6 based D-clone clean platform with a very special two knob three tube reverb circuit if 'verb desired, it could be a monster for Jazz, has that rock/jazz switch. .The inductor filters can both be defeated as well, so that leaves just a powerful, toneful, naked amp if so desired with a boost /distortion channel as well as preamp boost switch for additional emphasis and abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsp17 Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 The next amp to arrive for me will also be a head, 100 watter 6l6 based D-clone clean platform with a very special two knob three tube reverb circuit if 'verb desired, it could be a monster for Jazz, has that rock/jazz switch. .The inductor filters can both be defeated as well, so that leaves just a powerful, toneful, naked amp if so desired with a boost /distortion channel as well as preamp boost switch for additional emphasis and abilities. Jazz/Rock switch? I like it! What exactly does it do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Jazz/rock chooses between two tone stacks. The jazz setting has a tighter bottom and less mids, less gain, and sounds better to my ears with hollowbodies than the rock setting. You can youtube Ceriatone OTS or HRM and access some nice clips. A lot of them use fairly clean sounding gain settings with delay and 'verb in the loop. Play your instruments through KBP's D-clone, it has that rock/jazz switch. Then you'll have a good idea from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraad Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hey guys I've got a question about the Alessandro Comins amp. I'm looking for a new amp right now and it is really important for me to have a great clean tone and built in reverb (both of which the Comins has). Now my question is, jazz isn't the only thing I play, so will it take pedals well? Or am I looking at the wrong amp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ask KBP to have a bias switch on the back of the amp with presets for usual octal power tubes, is not a big deal to do it, so you can experiment 6L6, EL34, KT66, 6550, KT88. Personally i'd like the best KT66 because of the 6L6 voicing before breakup and EL34 after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 My Music Man is designed for 6L6's, but the new tubes can't handle it's high voltage. The only modern tube I could find that could handle the voltage was the EL34L's. I did an A/B comparison between the two, and to my ear the EL34's aren't quite as clean as the 6L6's, and in this amp for me that was good. My suggestion is to tell KBP what tone you're looking for and trust that he'll steer you the right way. There are lots of variables... And just to really mess you up, my own experience is that the speakers make more difference than I could tell with the tubes! I've been on my quest for the perfect tone for 30 years, and unfortunately I have determined that the perfect tone occurs when someone other than me is playing. The el34s in my sound city are squeaky clean, crisp, and headroom for days!!! Takes pedals fantastic....... And is louder than God himself. However in my class A chapenstein the 6l6 is cleanest and offers the most headroom. Go figger. I'm with pushover tell Brian what sound you are after and I'm sure he will guide you well. Just tell KBP what you want it to do and trust him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just tell KBP what you want it to do and trust him. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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