HRW Pickup Question

[Tallershadows]

Hey everyone,

I just scored a H150 Ultra. This is my first experience witht the HRW pups. I think the neck pup is great. Clean and overdriven sounds from this pup are nothing short of awesome. However, I felt like the bridge pup is mismatched to the neck. It sounds somewhat shrill and maybe thin to my ears. I did verify that they are both HRWs by removing the pups from the guitar. Beginning to have thoughts of replacing the bridge pup only, but will still play with the amp settings. Does anyone else have a similar experience?

[MartyGrass]

Yes.

 

There are three helpful things that help tame the bridge pup.

 

1. Roll the treble off a bit.

2. Blend the two pups.

3. Lower the bridge pickup quite a bit.

 

Some have recommended either upping the cap or reducing the tone pot resistance. I haven't tried either of these.

 

Best of luck, Jin.

[SouthpawGuy]

Yes, it seems to be a common experience. Have them in a Millie Ultra and a VIP2. In the VIP I don't mind the bridge too much as it's an '80s superstrat with a Kahler, but in the Millie the bridge pickup tone is out of character with the guitar.

[HANGAR18]

I'm wondering how hi up the pickup is supposed to sit in relation to the underside of the string.

Perhaps adjusting the pickup height will offer better performance.

Someone once told me that there is a way to adjust the pickup height for optimal performance using an oscilloscope but I don't know if that is a fairy tale or not.

[yoslate]

 

Someone once told me that there is a way to adjust the pickup height for optimal performance using an oscilloscope....

 

Yeah, but ears are good, too.... Up or down until you hear what you want and it's balanced with "the other one," in terms of output. And not too close to the strings, so that you get "string pull," from the magnets, or hitting it with the pick. Turn it up a little, hit the twelfth string harmonic, and listen carefully for any pitch oscillation. And done.

[Tallershadows]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Keep them coming...

[tbonesullivan]

One thing to remember is that the HRW pickups, like the Schaller pickups they are based on, are "vintage style" pickups. This means that the pickups themselves are actually fairly similar when comparing the bridge and neck. So, then neck will have more output, sound fuller, and sound louder. To compensate you may want to raise the bridge pickup, and lower the neck pickup. Then re-adjust your amp to the new bridge and neck pickup.

 

I've had this same issue with Seth Lovers, and Gibson 57 Classics. It's just the nature of the beast. "Modern" pickup sets tend to be designed with a specific position in mind (bridge or neck) with output and frequency response to match.

[Tallershadows]

Tbone,

 

My issue is not necessarily with the output. Currently I have the pups set us so that it sounds balanced in that respect. My issue is more with the tone of the bridge pickup.

[SouthpawGuy]

I have the pickups set below the top of the pickup mounting rings on both guitars and they're still a bit too hot for my taste and I tend to like high output pickups like the Duncan JB ( I'm sure a JB isn't considered to be high output these days but you get the idea).

[Blunote]

Tallershadows - I love the HRWs in my Millie Ultra Std. I've also noticed that most others who have listened to or played it invariably comment about how good it sounds. Having said that, I know what you mean about the bridge pickup. Played alone, it's bright, sometimes harsh. Unlike other sets of pickups, the neck and bridge have distinctly different sounds.

 

I believe they were designed to be that way. It gives the guitar a lot more range of available tones. Blended, they can sound bright, creamy, or even dark. They work for Jazz, Blues, Country, Bluegrass, or Hard Rock. Sometimes I'll play the bridge only, sometimes the neck only. But mostly, the switch is in the middle position.

 

As a side note, these pups want to be a distance from the strings. Mine are screwed down pretty low.

[Tallershadows]

Thanks Blunote. I must admit, I have not explored the middle position so far as much as the neck/bridge alone. Will look into it more.

[pro-fusion]

Bottom line for me is that the HRW bridge didn't sound good in my 157 but is great in my Millie. 150s and 157s need something fatter in the bridge. I recommend a Duncan Pearly Gates. That should match up well with the HRW neck.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[JeffB]

What is the out ut of HRW's? Ive often wondered but never seen it in any thread. Ive tried search but three letters dont bring anything up.

[SouthpawGuy]

What is the out ut of HRW's? Ive often wondered but never seen it in any thread. Ive tried search but three letters dont bring anything up.

 

Try a search for HRW* ..........works on most forums

 

As for the output they're probably not that high, the bridge pickup seems to have a treble "spike", I've found the Duncan Custom Custom and DiMarzio D Sonic have the same thing going on.

[Tallershadows]

JeffB,

 

The output of my HRWs measure 7.7k neck, 8.4k bridge. I believe they are also made with Alnico V magnets.

[JeffB]

 

Try a search for HRW* ..........works on most forums

 

As for the output they're probably not that high, the bridge pickup seems to have a treble "spike", I've found the Duncan Custom Custom and DiMarzio D Sonic have the same thing going on.

Thanks so much for that tip!!! it works beautifully. Wish I had known sooner

JeffB,

 

The output of my HRWs measure 7.7k neck, 8.4k bridge. I believe they are also made with Alnico V magnets.

Thanks Tallershadows. Appreciate the info.

[MartyGrass]

JeffB,

 

The output of my HRWs measure 7.7k neck, 8.4k bridge. I believe they are also made with Alnico V magnets.

 

SD 59s have Alnico 5s and are higher resistance. The bridge pup is much less intense than the HRW. What's the secret?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tbonesullivan]

Just remember that the DC resistance does not directly correlate to bigger output. It is a measure of the amount of wire wound on the spool. The strength of the magnet will determine how much output it has. Also with more wraps you tend to get a hotter more mid-heavy sound.

[MartyGrass]

Has anyone changed out the bridge pot or cap on a hrw?

[JeffB]

Just remember that the DC resistance does not directly correlate to bigger output. It is a measure of the amount of wire wound on the spool. The strength of the magnet will determine how much output it has. Also with more wraps you tend to get a hotter more mid-heavy sound.

Dimarzio give both a mV output and a DC resistance. They are the only company that seems to do this.

I tend to check out the mV to see how hot the p/up is and then check out the DC resistance to try and gauge/guess the over all tone.

To me higher DC resistance tends to be darker/ thicker/ more compressed etc and lower DC resistance tends to be more open, trebly etc.

There are some really quite high output p/ups with low DC resistance that really scream and bite.

When SD rate them with DC resistance only things never quite pan out as acurately for me.

The JBjr has a DC resistance similar to a standard JB yet uses different magnets and obviously construction and dimensions. They have some similar characteristic but just as many differences when put in the same guitar.

Another interesting p/up is the Steve Morse Dimarzio, very high output but comparably very low DC resistance(9.94). Its a bright p/up but hits the preamp quite hard.

As an example to off set the Steve Morse, the Dimarzio Bluesbucker with 1/2 the mV but a DC resistance of 10.7.

If I use DC resistance alone it tells me nothing other than theyre both going to have reasonable bite and top end clarity. Not so much about how its going to hit the preamp of my amp and dick with the over all gain or how its going to interact with my amps.

And then theres the magnet type and the wire guage and type and....etc.

 

I had some p/ups custom wound for a guitar I was having problems with. It needed quite hot p/ups with a higher DC resistance to make up for the lack of body in the guitar sound. The winder told me that the p/ups he supplied me were hot, but they only had a very high DC resistance and were low out put. I cant make them work on any guitar. Im really disappointed in him. Turns out the Dimarzio AT-1 bridge was the perfect blend of mV and DC resistance for that guitar. It cost 1/2 of the custom wound and with the mV and DC resistance stated on their website it was pretty easy to pick.

[Blunote]

One thing I notice about my HRWs played through the Millie is how clean notes on the low E string stay up around the 12 fret compared to my other guitars. There are definitely times i want more definition on those notes and I seem to get it with the HRWs even as I crank up the p'ups.

[soybean]

One thing I notice about my HRWs played through the Millie is how clean notes on the low E string stay up around the 12 fret compared to my other guitars. There are definitely times i want more definition on those notes and I seem to get it with the HRWs even as I crank up the p'ups.

That describes the sort of clarity you get with reduced magnetic "pull". Dimarzio designed it's airbuckers for this reason (and now many of their other models too). Is it possible the HRW also have reduced magnetic pull?

[Blunote]

Or maybe it's a function of my keeping them screwed down near or just above the rings.

[MartyGrass]

I have a set of HRWs lying around here. When I get a guitar with a control cavity plate on the back, maybe I'll play around with caps.

[Tallershadows]

Well, after a few weeks of advice and experimentation, I've come to the conclusion that I am not going to be friends with the bridge pickup. I decided to replace it with another pup. It came down to WCR Godwood, Sheptone AB, and Manlius Fat Diane. I ended up choosing the Manlius because based on the sound clips I could find, they seemed to compliment the HRW neck the best. They have an alnico 4 magnet and are wound to 8.7k. Also, they were only $100 with the gold cover. I installed them yesterday, and I am very pleased. This is how I thought the bridge should sound. The Manlius has the similar degree of warmth and output. The tone is also very similar and the pups are very well balanced. I will keep the HRW bridge in case I need to sell the guitar and to keep it intact. Thanks to everyone for their advice.