HRW Pickup Question

[DetroitBlues]

Alnico IV? Interesting... Not a very common magnet... wonder why they use them?

[AP515]

I have been playing my H150 with HRW's lately and I rather like the bridge (both actually). I am a neck pup player by nature anyway, but I clean up the bridge a little with the tone pot and it just sings. I usually play the middle position the most, but I am getting some terrific tone with the HRW's through the Lone Star. Just thought I'd share.

[Gitfiddler]

I have been playing my H150 with HRW's lately and I rather like the bridge (both actually). I am a neck pup player by nature anyway, but I clean up the bridge a little with the tone pot and it just sings. I usually play the middle position the most, but I am getting some terrific tone with the HRW's through the Lone Star. Just thought I'd share.

 

+1.

 

I really cannot get a tone I don't like from the Bridge or Neck HRW in my 150 or 555 with minimal knob twisting.

 

I guess it all depends on the amp, EQ settings and what you're playing.

[Blunote]

Earlier today I was comparing each of my guitars while plugged into my Little Lanilei: The 150 Deluxe with Seth Lovers; the 150P with Schallers, and the Millie with HRWs. The Little Lanilei is modeled after the plexi or bassman and breaks up quite readily. I had the new-to-me Guytron cab plugged in to it.

 

While I love the Seth Lovers in the Deluxe, and really like the Schallers in the 150P, I really love the HRWs in that Millie. With the amp gain turned way down and volume cranked way up, I noticed I was able to get much cleaner, louder sound from the Millie with HRWs than either of the other two guitars. The clarity amazes me.

 

The other point I'll make is that I don't think I'd like either the bridge, or neck pickup as much without the other. It's like yin & yang or cinnamon & sugar; they compliment each other.

[Tallershadows]

I have another h150 with skatterbrane benwabranes which also used alnico IV. I think it has a tone between alnico II and V, but more toward Vs. Slightly warmer and crunchier. I am a big fan of alnico IVs. Looks like several others are using this magnet like Motor City and Lindy Fralin.

 

I have heard HRWs in Millies and liked the sound in both the neck and bridge. I don't know if its my setup. I am playing through an orange 30 rocker through a pedal board with various effects. However, I don't have issues with any other bridge pup, just the HRWs. Seems like the opinions have been mixed. Some have experienced the same issues while others have not. I am keeping the pup just in case...

[Kuz]

First I will say that I have stayed out of this conversation because I am not a fan at all of HRWs in Solid or Semi-hollow guitars.

 

BUT I really neck the neck pup in an archtop.

 

And here is the reason I think the HRWs are either loved or hated.

1) They were designed by Ren Wall. What does Ren play or has played.... Country & Western. How is traditional C&W played CLEAN and clear (thus the neck pup design and tone). What about the bridge for C&W, you want bite and a chicken picking tone (thus the bridge pup design).

2) The HRWs were almost universally accepted by the Jazz Archtop endorsers of Heritage. Vince Lewis, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Kenny Burrell have all switched to HRWs in their Heritage Jazz boxes. Why? For the clean articulate clarity of the neck pup (I bet they have never even tried the bridge pup)

 

So why don't the HRWs cut in solid or semi-hollows? Because these are more "gain friendly" guitars and a hi-fi ultra clean pickup won't give that creamy round break-up for blues, classic rock, or fusion like Seth's or a PAF style pup will!!!

 

Now what about high gain players? They like the clarity and hi-fi ice pick cleans because the high gain will naturally muddy the tone.

 

ANYHOW, this is my theory on why some love and some hate HRWs.... It is all based on their application of music genre and type of guitar used!!!!!!

[StephenK]

Kuz, very interesting!

[Tallershadows]

Kuz,

 

Great points. I didn't have any of that knowledge, but certainly makes sense. In fact, when I had my instructor try the guitar, although he didn't have any experience with the HRWs, he felt that the HRWs would be ideal for jazz and decent for blues/rock.

 

And I really wish you chimed in sooner...

[Blunote]

First I will say that I have stayed out of this conversation because I am not a fan at all of HRWs in Solid or Semi-hollow guitars.

 

BUT I really neck the neck pup in an archtop.

 

And here is the reason I think the HRWs are either loved or hated.

1) They were designed by Ren Wall. What does Ren play or has played.... Country & Western. How is traditional C&W played CLEAN and clear (thus the neck pup design and tone). What about the bridge for C&W, you want bite and a chicken picking tone (thus the bridge pup design).

 

 

True enough. I think HRWs would be great C&W pickups. They have enough range to give a certain twang you'd expect for that genre.

 

2) The HRWs were almost universally accepted by the Jazz Archtop endorsers of Heritage. Vince Lewis, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Kenny Burrell have all switched to HRWs in their Heritage Jazz boxes. Why? For the clean articulate clarity of the neck pup (I bet they have never even tried the bridge pup)

 

I very much doubt that statement. The neck pickup is all mid-range. And even though it's clear, it' doesn't provide a very crisp acoustic sound on it's own. That dynamic is provided by dialing in the bridge.

 

The bridge pickup is very bright, and provides a lot of high end clean treble. If you think it's too bright, dial it back or knock the tone down. Point being, between the two pickups, there's a full palette of choices to compliment the song you're playing or the amp your plugged into. There's no reason to complain about an ice-pick sound.

 

Finally, the use of the term "hi-fi" to describe these pickups does an injustice to them. The definition of the term is "the reproduction of sound using electronic equipment that gives faithful reproduction with little or no distortion" but in your context, it's interpreted as somehow "sterile". So according to the first definition, it should follow that if you enjoy the acoustic characteristics of your guitar, you'll enjoy the sound a set of HRW p'ups produce. In my guitar, I hear a creamy-smooth, not muffled tone that puts me in a groove with a smile on my face and there's nothing sterile about that.

 

If I want a hoarser crunch, or growl, I have a guitar with Seth Lovers and another with Schallers,

[Kuz]

 

True enough. I think HRWs would be great C&W pickups. They have enough range to give a certain twang you'd expect for that genre.

 

 

I very much doubt that statement. The neck pickup is all mid-range. And even though it's clear, it' doesn't provide a very crisp acoustic sound on it's own. That dynamic is provided by dialing in the bridge.

 

The bridge pickup is very bright, and provides a lot of high end clean treble. If you think it's too bright, dial it back or knock the tone down. Point being, between the two pickups, there's a full palette of choices to compliment the song you're playing or the amp your plugged into. There's no reason to complain about an ice-pick sound.

 

Finally, the use of the term "hi-fi" to describe these pickups does an injustice to them. The definition of the term is to "the reproduction of sound using electronic equipment that gives faithful reproduction with little or no distortion" but in your context, it's interpreted as somehow "sterile". So according to the first definition, it should follow that if you enjoy the acoustic characteristics of your guitar, you'll enjoy the sound a set of HRW p'ups produce. In my guitar, I hear a creamy-smooth, not muffled tone that puts me in a groove with a smile on my face and there's nothing sterile about that.

 

If I want a hoarser crunch, or growl, I have a guitar with Seth Lovers and another with Schallers,

 

You certainly entitle to disagree, but as far as the Heritage Jazz endorser not switching to the HRWs (especially the neck pup) it has been well documented. Look on the Heritage Guitar web site under HRWs. Mimi, Vince, Kenny, and Henry have all switched in their guitars. I was told Henry Johnson broke his endorsement contract with another company (honestly, I forget which one) once he played his signature Heritage with HRWs.

 

As far as when I use the term hi-fi, I am using it to mean clean, articulate, higher output that is more tone derived from the pickup than the guitar's resonance or wood.

 

Again, I have had HRWs in two semis, one 150, and my Florintine Archtop GE. I really like the HRW in my Florintine GE (I really lowered the pup into the body and it offered GREAT string to string volume, clarity, and articulation). But for the semis and 150 I found the HRWs too metallic sounding, too much output, too articulate (Basicly everything you would want for hi gain or clean country).

 

I have a lot experience with HRWs, but it is only MY opinion and others' views are respected and vary well may be different.

 

Maybe this helps clear up my take on HRWs, good luck!!

[H]

...

So why don't the HRWs cut in solid or semi-hollows? Because these are more "gain friendly" guitars and a hi-fi ultra clean pickup won't give that creamy round break-up for blues, classic rock, or fusion like Seth's or a PAF style pup will!!!!

Not my experience of the neck HRW in a 170. It was very articulate but broke up beautifully and was a fantastic blues machine.

 

I'd happily put a neck HRW in any of my humbucker guitars.

[Blunote]

You certainly entitle to disagree, but as far as the Heritage Jazz endorser not switching to the HRWs (especially the neck pup) it has been well documented. Look on the Heritage Guitar web site under HRWs. Mimi, Vince, Kenny, and Henry have all switched in their guitars. I was told Henry Johnson broke his endorsement contract with another company (honestly, I forget which one) once he played his signature Heritage with HRWs.

 

As far as when I use the term hi-fi, I am using it to mean clean, articulate, higher output that is more tone derived from the pickup than the guitar's resonance or wood.

 

Again, I have had HRWs in two semis, one 150, and my Florintine Archtop GE. I really like the HRW in my Florintine GE (I really lowered the pup into the body and it offered GREAT string to string volume, clarity, and articulation). But for the semis and 150 I found the HRWs too metallic sounding, too much output, too articulate (Basicly everything you would want for hi gain or clean country).

 

I have a lot experience with HRWs, but it is only MY opinion and others' views are respected and vary well may be different.

 

Maybe this helps clear up my take on HRWs, good luck!!

 

What I disagreed about regarding the endorsers was the speculation that Vince, Mimi, Kenny, & Henry had probably never used the bridge pickups. My view is that the neck alone is so mid-range dominant that most musicians would find themselves dialing in the bridge.

 

Apart from that, I do outright reject the assertion that HRWs produce their own tone rather than acting as a channel for the tone produced by the strings moving through it's magnetic field (or however else a pickup senses input). HRW p'ups are passive; they don't filter out input in favor of some other simulated, or counterfeit sound.

 

I also like the bit of growl that seems to lurk just under the surface with PAF style pickups like Seth Lovers, Throbaks, SD59s etc...I tend to think that break up is due to the way those pickups color the input they get.

[Kuz]

 

What I disagreed about regarding the endorsers was the speculation that Vince, Mimi, Kenny, & Henry had probably never used the bridge pickups. My view is that the neck alone is so mid-range dominant that most musicians would find themselves dialing in the bridge.

 

Apart from that, I do outright reject the assertion that HRWs produce their own tone rather than acting as a channel for the tone produced by the strings moving through it's magnetic field (or however else a pickup senses input). HRW p'ups are passive; they don't filter out input in favor of some other simulated, or counterfeit sound.

 

I also like the bit of growl that seems to lurk just under the surface with PAF style pickups like Seth Lovers, Throbaks, SD59s etc...I tend to think that break up is due to the way those pickups color the input they get.

 

Well, this kind of why I stayed out of this discussion.

 

I respect you opinions, just disagree, and that is fine too.

 

Bottom line is, like Terry McInturff says, pickups are just like microphones. When micing a voice, each vocalist has a their own favorite mic to represent and best represent their unique tone. Each mic has it's own flavor, tone, and color. The exact same thing for pickups in a guitar... Each set has it's unique flavor, tone, and color.

 

For some HRWs work great in solid bodies and semi-hollows, for me they don't.

 

Some don't like HRWs in archtops, some (like me) really like them for archtops.

 

Remember there is no right or wrong for pups or for tone..... It's just what you like.

[pantram]

I like the HRW's in my 535 for blues and rock. The bridge cuts through when I use heavy distortion. The neck transfers bassy sounds with clear authority. I use heaver strings (11-52) and tune down to Eb (for my voice).

 

I don't play well but I can play loud

 

PS: I bought mine new in 2005. Does it have 4 wire pickups? (coil tap?)

[H]

Does it have 4 wire pickups? (coil tap?)

HRWs have four conductor wires so you can coil split. Coil tapping is a slightly different thing. Have a look at this article: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_tapping