A "2" on the headstock?

[grubber]

So, what does a "2" mean that is stamped into the finish above the serial number on a Heritage guitar???

[fxdx99]

Common with other guitar manufacturers, a finish blemish was observed prior to leaving the factory.

 

... either that or the guitar is 'twice' as good as one without the 2...

 

btw... nice to talk with you at PSP (we talked about the Pines).

[FredZepp]

So, what does a "2" mean that is stamped into the finish above the serial number on a Heritage guitar???

 

Yeah... as Randy noted... a "Factory Second" . Some small flaw was found in the instrument, often the flaw is very hard to find after the fact.

[grubber]

I would guess you should mention that when selling a guitar, correct???

[bolero]

yes absolutely

 

Is your new Millie a 2nd? I was going to ask you about the serial to determine when it was made

[totonka]

The "2" on my HFT445 means you're gonna have to pry it from my cold dead fingers on both hands to take it away!

[Gitfiddler]

"2" = Factory Second for the reasons stated above. Most of them are extremely minor in nature.

 

The big issue with a #2 above the serial number is how it is perceived by a potential buyer. The resale value is almost always negatively impacted.

 

And yes, you should have gotten a full disclosure from the seller on this issue in advance of the purchase.

[MartyGrass]

That's upsetting. It's as important to disclose a 2nd as it is to mention a sizeable chip or moderate bucklerash.

 

Some people don't care one way or another if there is a 2nd stamp on. But on an expensive guitar it's a bigger deal. It certainly diminishes the collectable value.

 

As I recall 2nds sell for about 30% off retail.

[grubber]

Yes, my "new" millie is emblazened with the "2" symbol.....It is a gorgeous guitar, I just would have like to have know about it prior to the sale. Not a mention of it on the "listing" here for the Owner's Group. I'm sure you all can relate to my surprise... With those things said, she is beautiful but of course the collectability and/or resale is less....

 

Just peeved off a bit. Seller says he bought it new from Charley's Music, apparently in Texas and didnt know it was a second.

[grubber]

The "2" on my HFT445 means you're gonna have to pry it from my cold dead fingers on both hands to take it away!

Nice! I hope that is what mine ends up meaning......

[schundog]

I know the seller personally, and there is no way he would have misrepresented the guitar to you in any way, knowingly. I've seen that guitar, and if there's a blemish on it other than the ding in the back of the neck that he DID describe, I can't find it. I can see how the "2" would be easy to overlook; I didn't realize my 555 was a 2nd until Bolero pointed it out to me at PSP. That probably explains the ginormous stinger on it.

 

It's a beautiful guitar, Matt, and I'll bet you forget that there is supposedly anything "wrong" with it before long. Enjoy it!

[gpuma]

I know the seller personally, and there is no way he would have misrepresented the guitar to you in any way, knowingly.

 

Honestly, I believe that had I bought this guitar, this would make very little difference to me. The question is really what can be done about it after the sale.

[DetroitBlues]

I know the seller personally, and there is no way he would have misrepresented the guitar to you in any way, knowingly. I've seen that guitar, and if there's a blemish on it other than the ding in the back of the neck that he DID describe, I can't find it. I can see how the "2" would be easy to overlook; I didn't realize my 555 was a 2nd until Bolero pointed it out to me at PSP. That probably explains the ginormous stinger on it.

 

It's a beautiful guitar, Matt, and I'll bet you forget that there is supposedly anything "wrong" with it before long. Enjoy it!

So when are you selling that 555? Accept a Epi Dot and a GT 140 for it?

[MartyGrass]

Most of the guys on this forum may disagree with me, but I would find the transaction unacceptable.

 

If I were the seller and unintentionally sold a 2nd, I would offer a refund and pay for shipping both ways. Most likely the buyer would compromise. But that would be the buyer's call.

 

If the original owner didn't get a substantial discount when he bought it new, he was ripped off.

 

If you really expect to keep the guitar as a player a long time, it doesn't matter much that it is a 2nd.

 

This deal upsets me because I put a bid on that guitar but was too late. It could have been my problem.

 

I'm sure it's a great guitar. It just may not be worth the selling price.

 

You and the seller need to work it out. There is little practical recourse otherwise.

 

 

[davesultra]

2 of the 5 Heritage guitars I own (or owned) have had 2s' on them. The first was a '98 150 I bought from fleabay. the seller didn't disclose the fact, but in his defense it was near impossible to see the 2. I had to use a magnifying glass to actually see it. Ultimately, I didn't care as I could not find the flaw anyway. My most current is a white 2010 H-157 purchased from a fellow forumite has a 2 (I knew this though). I actually overpaid a quite a bit for it (I knew this as well), I still don't care as I love it!!! For me a 2 is no biggie, they're twice as special!

[MartyGrass]

I have had many 2nds over the years. Well over a dozen of Gibson basses, arch tops, semi hollows. I've also had a few BGNs. My only guitar for a decade was a ES 175 2nd. There's no problem as long as the buyer knows it.

 

Imagine if you bought the guitar and found a headstock repair, which has happened to me. The seller tried to reassure me that the repair is solid and it will hold up for many years. He was right, but that wasn't the guitar advertised.

 

The 2nd stamp would bug me unless the price was discounted.

 

Now I'll shut up.

[LK155]

I know the seller personally, and there is no way he would have misrepresented the guitar to you in any way, knowingly. I've seen that guitar, and if there's a blemish on it other than the ding in the back of the neck that he DID describe, I can't find it.

 

Dog,

I think you're referring to me.

Grubber has recently purchased two Millie's, one from me (definitely not a 2nd) and another one from FleaBay.

But thanks for sticking up for me anyway.

[schundog]

 

Dog,

I think you're referring to me.

Grubber has recently purchased two Millie's, one from me (definitely not a 2nd) and another one from FleaBay.

But thanks for sticking up for me anyway.

Oops! Sorry for the confusion, Grubber. I would follow Marty Grass' advice.

[Guest HRB853370]

 

Dog,

I think you're referring to me.

Grubber has recently purchased two Millie's, one from me (definitely not a 2nd) and another one from FleaBay.

But thanks for sticking up for me anyway.

 

Ha! He had you pinned to the ground waiting for a tapout!!

[chico]

I am with Marty Grass. 2nds: nothing "wrong" other than it wasn't disclosed.

 

BTw, I have a factory REJECT HFT 445 that is a guitar that I would keep to the very end, before all others. I absolutely love the guitar, with a cracked neck that was repaired.

 

i'm into full disclosure otherwise renegotiate.

[Guest HRB853370]

 

Dog,

I think you're referring to me.

Grubber has recently purchased two Millie's, one from me (definitely not a 2nd) and another one from FleaBay.

But thanks for sticking up for me anyway.

 

Ebay is always buyer beware. Martygrass knows firsthand. I have had only problem with merchandise purchased and received from Ebay, and scammed one time with merchandise NOT received. Both times I was reimbursed in full. I have one Heritage coming, and I hope its everything the seller represented. But if not, the EBAY buyer protection will be there for me, just like Allstate.

[Hfan]

I'd say you deserve some compensation for the undisclosed 2nd. Wasn't this the guitar a new member had listed here? Selling to fund a mandolin I believe. Someone else mentioned e bay..you'd have recourse there, item not as described. That said it is a beautiful guitar. I'd buy a 2nd Heritage with no hesitation but at a discount.

[LK155]

 

Ebay is always buyer beware. Martygrass knows firsthand. I have had only problem with merchandise purchased and received from Ebay, and scammed one time with merchandise NOT received. Both times I was reimbursed in full. I have one Heritage coming, and I hope its everything the seller represented. But if not, the EBAY buyer protection will be there for me, just like Allstate.

 

I was mistaken. FleaBay was not involved in this transaction.

 

Matt, I would be severely peeved too. I just went back and re-read the original ad. No mention of it being a 2nd. For the seller not to disclose this is unforgivable.

I hope you're able to resolve this to your satisfaction.

[bolero]

yes IMO there should definitely be either:

 

1. some compensation by the seller

 

2. refund the guitar & re-list it, accurately described

 

factory 2nd would have an impact on the value of the guitar so it's not fair to list it as non-2nd

[gpuma]

Most of the guys on this forum may disagree with me, but I would find the transaction unacceptable.

 

If I were the seller and unintentionally sold a 2nd, I would offer a refund and pay for shipping both ways. Most likely the buyer would compromise. But that would be the buyer's call.

 

If the original owner didn't get a substantial discount when he bought it new, he was ripped off.

 

If you really expect to keep the guitar as a player a long time, it doesn't matter much that it is a 2nd.

 

This deal upsets me because I put a bid on that guitar but was too late. It could have been my problem.

 

I'm sure it's a great guitar. It just may not be worth the selling price.

 

You and the seller need to work it out. There is little practical recourse otherwise.

 

I am certainly not among the most who would disagree with you. In fact I agree 100%