JackBaruth Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I don't know how many of you guys are aware of Spaceman Effects: http://spacemaneffects.com/ They are made in single-run batches and although they only cost $350 or so new, on the used market they tend to soar from there. The Gemini III in particular will easily pull $600 in the copper-clad edition. The Spaceman frenzy is so strong that Zak, the owner, put up a "Secret Mission" a few months back. For $459, you would get *something* from Spaceman, and he wasn't saying what. They sold 50 of them in under 4 hours. A friend of mine in Nashville says Spaceman boxes are all over the session guys' pedalboards now, mostly because they are built like bomb shelters. I put in for two of the thirty "WOW Signal" pedals and they finally arrived yesterday. It is a unique and amazing pedal... not like any other fuzzbox I've seen. I will do some recording with it in the near future... just really really neat.
Gitfiddler Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Damn, at those prices, I hope they all have a "User Talent Booster" setting included!!
DetroitBlues Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Boutique pedals for boutique amps for boutique guitars for boutique players to sound just like the guys on records from back in the day that played "crappy gear" found off the shelves of their local music store and in pawn shops... My whole rig can be replaced by the cost of three of these pedals... Very cool ideas and layouts, but not a one will make me play or sound any better...
JeffB Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Not clicking any links in this thread. Practicing intervals and chromatic ideas. Tone be in them, not in wallet. No money in wallet.
JeffB Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Boutique pedals for boutique amps for boutique guitar for boutique players to sound just like the guys on records from back in the day that played crappy gear found off the shelves and in pawn shops... My whole rig can be replaced by the cost of three of these pedals... Very cool ideas and layouts, not a one will make me play or sound any better... They didnt really all play on or through crappy gear. They had big old fenders, marshalls and stuff. They had cool shit and most of the time it was pretty current for the time. It was the iconic stuff. As much as they embellish the stories with ideas of terrible gear, when you go back and check out what they were using its pretty grand stuff. Of course Im not sure if we are talking about the same "they". Im thinking guys like Hubert Sumlin, Freddy King, Eric, Peter Green, Jimi, Jimmy Page etc.
DetroitBlues Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 They didnt really all play on or through crappy gear. They had big old fenders, marshalls and stuff. They had cool shit and most of the time it was pretty current for the time. It was the iconic stuff. As much as they embellish the stories with ideas of terrible gear, when you go back and check out what they were using its pretty grand stuff. Of course Im not sure if we are talking about the same "they". Im thinking guys like Hubert Sumlin, Freddy King, Eric, Peter Green, Jimi, Jimmy Page etc. What I'm saying is gear is becoming really expensive for that elusive tone quest that many will spend fortunes on to sound like the guys who bought everday stuff back in the day to get their sound. Many of those guys (blues players) traveled with nothing more than a guitar on their back and used house gear or rented what they needed. I bet anyone of those old blues players would have a blast and love the tones they get out of my own simple rig. Not to insult Jack or anyone with the means like him (if its not already too late, apologies Jack!) Adding a few components or tweaks to a pedal or amp or using vintage spec materials won't help change the tone coming from your hands.... I buy everyday budget friendly items and try to make it work for me. I do my homework and pay attention to settings and other knob tweaking on my guitars, pedals, and amps to dial in the right sound. As long as there isn't any unwanted noise or volume changes, the cheaper stuff shouldn't be frowned upon.
JackBaruth Posted October 5, 2012 Author Posted October 5, 2012 Boutique pedals for boutique amps for boutique guitars for boutique players to sound just like the guys on records from back in the day that played "crappy gear" found off the shelves of their local music store and in pawn shops... My whole rig can be replaced by the cost of three of these pedals... Very cool ideas and layouts, but not a one will make me play or sound any better... This is occasionally true, and I get what you're driving at --- look at T-Model Ford and his wacky old Peavey --- but allow me to offer just a few counterexamples. * The Beatles pushed an entire generation of amplifier development. The VOX AC15 and AC30 they used in the studio would be, and are, $2000 hand-wires amps today. None of the guitars the Beatles played today would cost any less than a grand or two adjusted for inflation. * Keith Richards paid his own money for two of Randall Smith's first MESA/Boogies and used them to play Madison Square Garden. He owned any number of guitars which were equivalent to Fender and Gibson Custom Shop level stuff. * Other than his Danelectro, everything Jimmy Page played was top-dollar stuff. Even his Supro recording amp would be the equivalent of a Victoria or other hand-wired reissue today. He owned a lot of expensive guitars and paid good money for them --- as much as $400 for a guitar in an era where a new Chevy Impala cost $2550. He spent a tremendous amount of money on effects and wound up basically creating Pete Cornish's career by commissioning him to create high-end integrated pedalboards. * Clapton and Beck played Les Pauls and vintage Strats, usually through Marshalls. * Jimi Hendrix and Roger Mayer worked together to create all sorts of new effects and deliberately crafted his sound around the unique things they could do with those effects. He played a Flying V and a Strat. * Mike Bloomfield played all the high-dollar guitars of his era into some very expensive backlines. * Slash recorded "Appetite for Destruction" with a Kris Derrig repro and a tuned-up Marshall stack. * Chuck Berry has been playing dual Fender Showman amps since about the dawn of time. * Muddy Waters played a goldtop Les Paul the minute money could buy one. * Freddie King played an ES-345. BB King played an ES-355. Albert King played a Flying V. The vast --- and I mean vast --- majority of famous rock and blues records were made with Gibson or Fender equipment, played through point-to-point wired amplifiers. Even Kurt Cobain went through the trouble of having Fender's Custom Shop make his guitars. In many cases, from Hendrix to the Edge via EVH and Eric Johnson, specific (and expensive) effects actually created their famous sounds. It's important to remember that in the pre-Clinton/most-favored-nation-status-for-China era, ALL musical equipment was expensive. My father bought me a "cheap" Japanese guitar in 1982 for $345 --- in that same year, he bought a brand-new Lincoln for $21,000. Adjust for inflation and that's a thousand-dollar guitar. Before solid-state amps, almost all the amps were point to point tube amps which cost real money. In 2012 you can buy a Classic Vibe Squier and a Fender Mustang amp for a total of $500 and get a lot of great tones, but you won't get the same tones the old masters got, and you won't be able to create some of the sounds you can make with a $350 fuzz pedal between a $6000 Gibson R9 and a $1500 Heritage Patriot. God knows I'd like to be a better player but I'm trying to do the most with the very minor talent I have. I don't even play guitar at PSP!
DetroitBlues Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 To counter that point, those guys didn't start off with the money to buy those fine examples. Many became famous before they could afford any of that. A Fender Tele, Strat, or Gibby LP was cheap in the used gear market as were amps.. Not a lot of pedals back then either... When I see a pedal board filled when a dozen or more pedals, I just think of way back in the day where as maybe three pedals top were out there being used at any one time. We can go back and forth, but there are valid points on both sides...
212Mavguy Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 JB and DB, great posts, both of you! I tend to favor Jack's point of view here. I only have a certain amount of time on this planet, I don't have much money at all, so I rely on research and personal experimentation to get knowledge, and buy very sharp on eBay with the skills accumulated from over 400 buying transactions. I'm not going to waste a cent on store bought tone any more. Not going to buiy any more new amps, either. From now on all my amps will be build, reconfigured, or restored personally. Not for everyone, but personally It's satisfying to know how to get those special sounds without needing help from a store salesman. No more store bought tone for me! Just got a pasckage of paper in oil tone caps from the Ukraine today, Ronda Jean the trailer trash queen is gonna get her little guts ripped right out and have an organ transplant or few today.
big bob Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 If we are talking about musicians and money. I've heard that Mr. Vanhalen ruined many a Marshall head with garage mods before he got the brown sound just right. I learned how to play guitar with a 99 dollar Yamaha fg 411. When I was learning to play I thought it was a shit guitar. It had a real high action and it hurt my fingers. I just would not play the chords I wanted it too. When I had the money I bought a heritage 575. Much easier to play. Now that I can play better, or at least read a sheet of tab and be able to make it sound like a song things have changed but stayed the same. I have a crafter dreadnought at school in my classroom. I work with kids who have behavior disorders so no heritages at work. The crafter sounds like shit, if I play it for too long my fingers hurt, and it does not always let me make the chords I want. Quality made equipment, weather it's expensive or,cheep is much easyer to play than poorly made equipment. Another thing to remember is that back in the days when annual income was in the 6 k range a 400.00 guitar was a fortune.
DetroitBlues Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I heard Eddie say that Brown sound mod was a hoax. He was a terrible interviewee so he made crap up for to make them happy...
bolero Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 that's cool Jack, looking forward to the clips!! there's so many boutique/small production effects & things available now. probably thanks to the internet it's interesting how guitar has moved away from rack setups and back to pedals again 212mavguy you are my hero, I wish I knew enough to do that stuff!! Detroit I wouldn't believe much EVH says, but it is pretty well documented about his variac etc. if you are interested do a search on plexipalace forums. also the guy who engineered that first VH album did a LOT to tweak the sound...if you listen to the raw tracks it sounds fairly "meh"...there was tons of reverb etc slathered on. he deserves as much credit for the sound on that album as EVH
Bonefish Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 This is occasionally true, and I get what you're driving at --- look at T-Model Ford and his wacky old Peavey --- but allow me to offer just a few counterexamples. * The Beatles pushed an entire generation of amplifier development. The VOX AC15 and AC30 they used in the studio would be, and are, $2000 hand-wires amps today. None of the guitars the Beatles played today would cost any less than a grand or two adjusted for inflation. * Keith Richards paid his own money for two of Randall Smith's first MESA/Boogies and used them to play Madison Square Garden. He owned any number of guitars which were equivalent to Fender and Gibson Custom Shop level stuff. * Other than his Danelectro, everything Jimmy Page played was top-dollar stuff. Even his Supro recording amp would be the equivalent of a Victoria or other hand-wired reissue today. He owned a lot of expensive guitars and paid good money for them --- as much as $400 for a guitar in an era where a new Chevy Impala cost $2550. He spent a tremendous amount of money on effects and wound up basically creating Pete Cornish's career by commissioning him to create high-end integrated pedalboards. * Clapton and Beck played Les Pauls and vintage Strats, usually through Marshalls. * Jimi Hendrix and Roger Mayer worked together to create all sorts of new effects and deliberately crafted his sound around the unique things they could do with those effects. He played a Flying V and a Strat. * Mike Bloomfield played all the high-dollar guitars of his era into some very expensive backlines. * Slash recorded "Appetite for Destruction" with a Kris Derrig repro and a tuned-up Marshall stack. * Chuck Berry has been playing dual Fender Showman amps since about the dawn of time. * Muddy Waters played a goldtop Les Paul the minute money could buy one. * Freddie King played an ES-345. BB King played an ES-355. Albert King played a Flying V. The vast --- and I mean vast --- majority of famous rock and blues records were made with Gibson or Fender equipment, played through point-to-point wired amplifiers. Even Kurt Cobain went through the trouble of having Fender's Custom Shop make his guitars. In many cases, from Hendrix to the Edge via EVH and Eric Johnson, specific (and expensive) effects actually created their famous sounds. It's important to remember that in the pre-Clinton/most-favored-nation-status-for-China era, ALL musical equipment was expensive. My father bought me a "cheap" Japanese guitar in 1982 for $345 --- in that same year, he bought a brand-new Lincoln for $21,000. Adjust for inflation and that's a thousand-dollar guitar. Before solid-state amps, almost all the amps were point to point tube amps which cost real money. In 2012 you can buy a Classic Vibe Squier and a Fender Mustang amp for a total of $500 and get a lot of great tones, but you won't get the same tones the old masters got, and you won't be able to create some of the sounds you can make with a $350 fuzz pedal between a $6000 Gibson R9 and a $1500 Heritage Patriot. God knows I'd like to be a better player but I'm trying to do the most with the very minor talent I have. I don't even play guitar at PSP! Why can't people who don't care about quality effects (or want to belittle those that do), refrain from posting on every topic about boutique pedals?
Kuz Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Why can't people who don't care about quality effects (or want to belittle those that do), refrain from posting on every topic about boutique pedals? + 1
Kuz Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Boutique pedals for boutique amps for boutique guitars for boutique players to sound just like the guys on records from back in the day that played "crappy gear" found off the shelves of their local music store and in pawn shops... My whole rig can be replaced by the cost of three of these pedals... Very cool ideas and layouts, but not a one will make me play or sound any better... Don't hold back Josh, tell us how you really feel. By the way, which of your ever changing rigs are you referring to? How do you know without playing any of these pedals that your tone or sound would not improve?
HANGAR18 Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 So many thoughts popping into head at once... must get organized.... 1. I would be glad to know about anyone who is making tone modification equipment that doesn't suck. Clearly, there are a lot of companies making a bunch of gimickey pedals and stuff just to make a buck. Here is the best illustration of this concept ever... http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/topic/19574-terrible-sounding-od-pedals-for-sale/page__fromsearch__1 2. While growing up as a drummer, a lesson I still try to live by came to me from Buddy Rich where he said something to the effect of... If you know how to play, it doesn't matter what you play on, you'll sound good. Once I heard a guy apply his drumsticks to a ping pong table and he sounded better than many drummers I've heard on real drums. 3. Tone modification effects are not always a bad thing and that guy Edge from U2 made a career out of effects pedals. I'm thinking of the episode of "It Might Get Loud" where he demonstrated what one of U2's very popular songs sounded like without any effects at all. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1229360/ This is a GREAT documentary and I'd recommend it to anyone!
JeffB Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 So many thoughts popping into head at once... must get organized.... 1. I would be glad to know about anyone who is making tone modification equipment that doesn't suck. Clearly, there are a lot of companies making a bunch of gimickey pedals and stuff just to make a buck. Here is the best illustration of this concept ever... http://www.heritageo...__fromsearch__1 Nnnnooooooo!!!!! dont quote me....ever. Im a screw loose. I was just using up the internet. Some of those pedals were quite good. It was a silly post. I was being silly. I was mocking myself. You should not read that thread and think of it as a genuine product review. Sorry if I mislead. I may have a different sense of humour to others. I didnt know this until I discovered the internet.
DetroitBlues Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Don't hold back Josh, tell us how you really feel. By the way, which of your ever changing rigs are you referring to? How do you know without playing any of these pedals that your tone or sound would not improve? My amps and guitars may change, but I've been using the same wah, OD, and distortion all year. In fact, I've been using the Dot the whole time trying to find the right Heritage. I don't think a shiny case, or flowery description of a pedal are going to help me sound better, but my own playing and hands are going to make me sound better...
212Mavguy Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Tone does come from the fingers, but most electric guitar players don't know jack about the back of their jack. There's a lot of that here, including me, but what is setting my playing apart is the striving to understand... back-o-the-jack. Can say that the equipment is so important that when I get it right, I hear the tone, notes, and sounds before they come out of my fingers, but most times the result is slightly different. Reminds me of another hobby, 35mm photography, what you see in the viewfinder and think you're gonna get isn't exactly EVER what shows up on the slide or print. It's the same thing playing electric guitar. Take a crappy camera lens lens shot at a certain adjustment and you'll get the subject in perfect frame central focus but the edges will be blurry. The pic taken with the same lens using the good glass will have the corners sharp at the same setting. Same thing with amps and effects. Their electrical qualities serve to focus and intensify the mind's intent for those fingers, a great amp and effects chain IS the power steering for your mind's musical modalities. What I'm getting closer to is to understanding how stuff back-o-the-jack affects tone alone and in a mix, which can be quite different, and how to quickly adjust in a live situation playing well with others. Plays well with others. I wanna be THAT guy in the band.
DetroitBlues Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 .... Plays well with others. I wanna be THAT guy in the band. I've been told that's why my band likes me so much. They know there are lot better guitarists, but none have better attitudes. Guess that counts for something...
Kuz Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 My amps and guitars may change, but I've been using the same wah, OD, and distortion all year. In fact, I've been using the Dot the whole time trying to find the right Heritage. I don't think a shiny case, or flowery description of a pedal are going to help me sound better, but my own playing and hands are going to make me sound better... Trap in-lays will make you sound better...
DetroitBlues Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Trap in-lays will make you sound better... I knew it!
JackBaruth Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 Forgot about this thread. Two nights ago we had a guest singer stop in for rehearsal and we took a shot at a Sade song. The mix is perilous and there's a bit of a stop-start of it since I'm directing her as well as playing, but whatevs: I fussed the WOW Signal around to get the "Ernie Isley" sound. I thought it was pretty hilarious. The rest of the guitar signal chain: 1979 Explorer with mystery-meat Gibson pickups -> 20ft Mogami -> WOW Signal -> 15ft Steiner -> Heritage Patriot. I think the Explorer sounds pretty bad-ass clean, if I do say so myself.
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