Will today's Heritage guitars really be the vintage guitars of tomorrow?

[flattop]

The PAF is just as legendary as the les pauls , 335s and 175s that they are installed in. If Heritage is ever as collectible as G what about the pups. Surprising Heritage doesn't wind their own.

[yoslate]

Context is everything.... For someone learning to play, then aspiring to a "better" instrument, in the sixties and early seventies, the pool of available instruments was a lot smaller, consisting in large measure of Fenders and Gibsons from the preceding ten or fifteen years, plus what was new in any given year, from '60 to '70. Relative to now...not a lot of choice, then. Go back fifteen years, prior to now, and you're in 1997. How deep and wide is the pool from '97 to now? Gibson and Fender...tons of 'em, although, admittedly, many are of suspect provenance, to many players' minds (...MIM, for example) and suspect quality, as well. How many boutique builders have made names for themselves in the last fifteen years? Plenty (Heritage among them, certainly, but no more prominent than many, many others). How many kids currently grow up learning to play an instrument because they live with music, I mean build meaningful record collections, devouring liner notes, learning lyrics and licks? Proportionately, I'd bet not nearly as many as there were when we were in our teens, buying records, and rebelling against our parents ( and trying to attract girls ), guitars and loud music being the weapons of choice. The dynamic is, I think, quite different. I don't think kids now (in general, but I know there are those every bit as devoted to listening and playing as we were) relate to music as we did. The album, as a concept, has all but disappeared. Liner notes...where? And so much of pop music is no longer guitar driven...it's about beats and sampling and techno. Yes, I realize there are exceptions, both individual and genres. Back in the Sixties and Seventies the choices boiled down to acoustic versus electric.

 

So, Will, if you mean "be the vintage guitars of tomorrow," in the sense of being so desired by an identifiable cultural demographic, to the point that prices will increase disproportionately to practical value in the same way those prices have for '59 Pauls, '50's Strats, and '40's herringbone Martins, I think not. I suspect that serious buyers will do what we're doing now. They'll (we'll) be finding contemporaneously made instruments of high quality, selling at prices (admittedly, fairly high end) reasonable and accessible to players earning a living comfortable enough to have a sizable chunk of discretionary income, two or three times a year. Given the vicissitudes of Twenty-first Century economics, as they appear early on, I don't think many in their right minds will see guitars as a sound (no pun intended) investment.

[pegleg32]

Just the sheer volume of quality guitars from many manufacturers seems to preclude extreme collectability. But I do like Brents list, there are a few select models or one offs from any number of manufacturers that will stand out to some degree, but not to the degree of the 59 burst, etc. They are in a class all their own which may have been created in myth and story as much as the actuality of their existance. Having said that, my Heritages already feel and play like vintage guitars, I don't need anything else.

[bolero]

I don't foresee a popular music revolution ever happening again, as massive as what happened in the '60's

 

that is the main reason that stuff is collectable

 

in 50 years will anyone care about a '59 Les Paul?

 

 

maybe we're on the brink of a huge electronic music epoch though....if so I bet vintage synths will be appreciating in value......when everyone is using plugins, a real VCS3 or Oberheim will be highly sought after

[Guest HRB853370]

I believe certain Heritage guitars will be VERY collectable in the future...

 

American Eagles

Alvin Lee 535s

Gary Moore 150s

Most A, B, C, D codes

20th Ann. Models

class of 59 korina 150s

H 357s

H 150 DLX LEs

Custom 1-offs, a la Lance's H 150 custom

The lost childs, (xterminator, terminator, rambo, etc)

early sweet 16s, super eagles, 550s

 

 

thats just my take

 

Was there an A serial number code? I thought that B was the first year of production (1985). Brent? Bueller?

[JackBaruth]

A few thoughts here, some tangential and some relevant.

 

* There are at least a half-million good, solid, American-made guitars built every year. It's probably safe to say that the number of them tripled or quadrupled between 1960 and 1980 and has done so again since then. Meanwhile, the number of kids playing the guitar continues to fall. That's a problem.

 

* The Boomers have billions' of dollars' worth of vintage instruments which will come up for sale or auction in the next twenty years. They'll need the money and their kids won't be as interested. You want a '59 Burst? Wait until 2030, they will be thick on the ground.

 

* The middle class is disappearing and the guitar is a middle-class instrument.

 

I wouldn't look for any guitar in the world to be worth more in twenty years than it is now. The sole exception to that will be guitars which are made of scarce or illegal substances. For example, PRS is releasing a run of 40 Modern Eagles with BRW necks. That would be a smart buy, although they won't appreciate like a vintage instrument used to do. Eventually, mahogany and rosewood from any source will be impossible to get.

[AP515]

A few thoughts here, some tangential and some relevant.

 

* There are at least a half-million good, solid, American-made guitars built every year. It's probably safe to say that the number of them tripled or quadrupled between 1960 and 1980 and has done so again since then. Meanwhile, the number of kids playing the guitar continues to fall. That's a problem.

 

* The Boomers have billions' of dollars' worth of vintage instruments which will come up for sale or auction in the next twenty years. They'll need the money and their kids won't be as interested. You want a '59 Burst? Wait until 2030, they will be thick on the ground.

 

* The middle class is disappearing and the guitar is a middle-class instrument.

 

I wouldn't look for any guitar in the world to be worth more in twenty years than it is now. The sole exception to that will be guitars which are made of scarce or illegal substances. For example, PRS is releasing a run of 40 Modern Eagles with BRW necks. That would be a smart buy, although they won't appreciate like a vintage instrument used to do. Eventually, mahogany and rosewood from any source will be impossible to get.

 

Very thoughtful and I agree with most of it but think some is a bit of a reach. I agree that the industry exploded in the 80's and many companies moved off shore to get the lower labor cost. It made a commodity of the guitar. I remember I was in my 20's in the 80's and still thought I could not afford a Strat. One year my wife bought me a Squier Strat for Christmas. They were cheap enough for the extended family to go in together and buy one. Sure it was a piece of crap, but I had never seen a guitar you could just buy for Christmas. I was amazed. Now any kid can get one, but only those who stick with it will get one that is worth keeping. It is also true that interest in guitars is fading in the younger generations. Much like there used to be an upright piano in every home, now there are few homes that still have them and most of them are collecting dust. Guitars could go the same way as kids learn to play only on guitar hero, and listen to techno music on I-pods.

 

Still, a good guitar will hold value much like a good piano. Even though the market is small for a Steinway, they still demand a hefty price. There is a whole industry around refurbishing Steinways and where you get it done is as much a status symbol as having the piano! As long as there's enough of an upper class to afford good instruments, there will be a collector of quality guitars. Maybe the middle class will fade but there will still be a market.

[koula901]

I wonder if much of the good wood will disappear, making real wood guitars more valuable than the composite materials G brand is using today.

[yngwie308]

Well I waited 21

[yngwie308]

As I was saying..lol.. I waited 21 years since I bought and ordered my two Heritage Gary Moore models, now only one left. the Amber burst I purchased from Manny's (RIP) over the phone.

According to the very knowledgeable Jay Wolfe these would bring between $3.2K and $3.5K in the supposedly good market. It depends on circumstances whether the market is good or bad.

In the case of Gibson's, the same rules that apply to them do not cover a Heritage guitar...

My tale is well known here, so I will say that even having been physically altered to make them play properly in the first place, according to the 'rules', they became instantly devalued in the eyes of, well I'm not sure who the eyes really belong to,, !

To have a master craftsman 'modify', ie: make the two guitars eminently playable when they both were brand new back in 1991, was a plan that I briefly agonized over and quickly decided that playability (a big factor in a guitar for me) was the order of the day.

I have never regretted my decision back then.

Not returning two separate guitars for similar faults to Heritage was a conscious decision.

Of course I telephoned the factory expressing my concern and disbelief about the finishing of these two otherwise spectacularly built Gary Moore Signature model guitars.

The sad tale of the Almond burst that was sold to England and had the headstock suffer multiple fractures.

Fed Ex made the decision that the guitar could be termed 'vintage', due to it's age, but mostly due to it's numerical rarity.

They have decided to refund the recipient the whole $2K insured amount, plus the shipping charges $381.79.

Back on topic, yes to me these two heritage's were/are considered 'vintage'.

The exact criteria for vintage hasn't been met 100% but fortunately Fed Ex came back in the end to determine that it was..

On the other hand a Gibson Hysterical, which date from 1993 or so onwards hold their value to an astronomical degree!

Everyone here is aware of the strange dichotomy which exists with Gibson versus Heritage values.

Gibson claims that the specifications of say a '59 burst, increase in accuracy with each passing year and Heritage claim to be true to the spirit of the Kalamazoo models in their build quality

For these two decades I have felt no need to purchase a new 'old' Gibson, the Heritage's though specialized meet that Gibson need!

yngwie308

[BluesDabbler]

Buy gold if you're trying to invest. Or maybe bullets. Buy guitars to play, enjoy, and pass down to your kids.

[bolero]

Buy gold if you're trying to invest. Or maybe bullets. Buy guitars to play, enjoy, and pass down to your kids.

 

agree!