Pickups?

[flattop]

Whats the deal on Heritage pickups? Are the HRWs and floating jazz pickups made by Heritage or are they made by someone else for Heritage. And as long as we're on the subject, how do HRWs compare to say 57 classics?

[eljay]

H makes no pickups except for the HRW, now discontinued. more accurately, HRWs are reworked schallers, if i'm not mistaken.

 

the story behind the HRWs is as open as the "formula" for coca-cola, that is, it's proprietary.

 

mr. ren wall, at heritage (RW) does the reworking. the result is the HRW, Heritage Ren Wall, pickup.

 

i have no experience with HRWs but others here sometimes say they are kind of "hi fi."

 

my impression is that they would not be close to 57 classics.

 

otherwise, H's standard pickups are seymour duncan for buckers and lollar for p90s. someone else will need to tell you here H sources the floaters,

[MartyGrass]

The HRW and Gibson 57 are as similar as the 57 and the TV Jones. All are humbuckers yet different.

 

I'll go further and say that there are many pups that sound similar to the 57. There are few, if any, that sound like the HRW. That's neither praise nor criticism. For some of us the HRW is an acquired taste.

[Guest HRB853370]

To me, the HRW's sound like Schallers. I guess because they are. But much hotter and more bite!

 

Perhaps if Heritage, or Gibson (before Heritage) had not sold off the original PAF winders to Throbak, they would be winding their own pickups too. How cool would that be!

[Blunote]

I have a hard time calling them Schallers because they have Schaller make them.

 

If I understand pickup anatomy, then regardless of manufacturer they're all pretty much variations of the same sets of parts. By that I mean, there's are choices of bobbins, wire, magnets, & covers; commodity stuff, really. Then there are differences in wire gauge and insulation, number of winds, tightness of the wind, which magnets and pole pieces are chosen, covered or not, potted or not,, etc. It's the configuration of all that that makes the difference more than who does the assembly that makes the difference between one pickup and another. Then once you have the recipe, who it is building them matters with respect to making them the same, so that they all sound the same.

 

So in my mind, when Ren defined what an HRW was, it stopped being Schaller.

[Gitfiddler]

To me, the HRW's sound like Schallers. I guess because they are. But much hotter and more bite!

 

Perhaps if Heritage, or Gibson (before Heritage) had not sold off the original PAF winders to Throbak, they would be winding their own pickups too. How cool would that be!

 

If I recall correctly, the owner of Throbak purchased one of the remaining Leesona 102B pickup winding machine from the boys at Heritage. They left if in a dusty corner, unused. We discussed this a couple of years ago.

 

There is a recent thread about these old winders on the Les Paul Forum that might interest ya'll.

 

http://www.lespaulforum.com/finalframes/frameset.htm

[MartyGrass]

If I recall correctly, the owner of Throbak purchased one of the remaining Leesona 102B pickup winding machine from the boys at Heritage. They left if in a dusty corner, unused. We discussed this a couple of years ago.

 

There may be a reason that the winding machine was gathering dust in some corner. While it was state of the art back in the 50s, it makes no commercial sense to use that imprecise technology now.

 

Sure, there are those who believe that scatterwound, random wrapped bobbins sound better, and that somehow mojo is imparted to the pickups with this old machine and technique. I don't buy that (literally).

 

I believe in magic and mojo as much as the next guy. But if that machine channeled those vibes, it was from the blistered hands of the hard working, underpaid women of Kalamazoo. If they knew that someday their pickups would go for $500 a pair, they may have formed a union.

[Guest HRB853370]

I have a hard time calling them Schallers because they have Schaller make them.

 

If I understand pickup anatomy, then regardless of manufacturer they're all pretty much variations of the same sets of parts. By that I mean, there's are choices of bobbins, wire, magnets, & covers; commodity stuff, really. Then there are differences in wire gauge and insulation, number of winds, tightness of the wind, which magnets and pole pieces are chosen, covered or not, potted or not,, etc. It's the configuration of all that that makes the difference more than who does the assembly that makes the difference between one pickup and another. Then once you have the recipe, who it is building them matters with respect to making them the same, so that they all sound the same.

 

So in my mind, when Ren defined what an HRW was, it stopped being Schaller.

 

Well, I didn't say they WERE Schallers, I said they sound similar to Schallers to me, on steroids. When did Ren EVER talk about them? He always seemed very tight lipped about that pickup modification.

[flattop]

Thanks,great info. I have to agree there is a ton of mojo (real or imagined) connected with those old PAFs.

[Gitfiddler]

I read a post on this forum that when Gibson was getting ready to shut down the Kalamazoo operation one of the managers had a ton of those worthless old p.a.f. humbucker pickups tossed out. Don't know if that's truth of fiction, but it makes one think about all of the 'mojo' we associate with magical old pickups.

[Kuz]

I was under good understanding that Heritage DID personally make the floater pickups.

[Kuz]

Well, I didn't say they WERE Schallers, I said they sound similar to Schallers to me, on steroids. When did Ren EVER talk about them? He always seemed very tight lipped about that pickup modification.

 

HRW pickups were Schaller pickups. There has been discussion if Ren wound every HRW or if he made the if HRW from a stock Schaller and then had Schaller manufacture the HRW to his specs.... but the HRW was first made from a Schaller and then either used Schaller parts and Ren finished the production, or Schaller made HRWs completed from his original specs.

[High Flying Bird]

HRW pickups were Schaller pickups. There has been discussion if Ren wound every HRW or if he made the if HRW from a stock Schaller and then had Schaller manufacture the HRW to his specs.... but the HRW was first made from a Schaller and then either used Schaller parts and Ren finished the production, or Schaller made HRWs completed from his original specs.

 

Yep. I sold the pair I had in my 535. The Phat Cats have so much more breath and soul - especially in that guitar.

[bucketbot]

After a while with my H150 Don't think I really like the SD pickups so am contemplating fitting BKP's as I have in several of my other Guitars.

 

Considering the BKP Abraxas & also maybe fitting push push tone pots to give me the option of coil splitting both pickups.

 

I already know that BKP's rock! but has anyone here fitted BKP's to their 150's?

 

https://bareknucklep...&pickup=abraxas

[MichYank]

Throbak got the slug Leesona; Seymour Duncan got the active Leesona. Although it may not be the optimal way to wind a pickup, I like the idea of a historical connection to a storied past.

[tbonesullivan]

given heritages size and production numbers, it most likely makes far more sense for heritage to buy commercially available pickups rather than make them in house. They also farm out a lot of the advanced inlay work/carving, as you need specialized machinery, filters, etc to work with MOP and Abalone shell.

[golferwave]

After a while with my H150 Don't think I really like the SD pickups so am contemplating fitting BKP's as I have in several of my other Guitars.

 

Considering the BKP Abraxas & also maybe fitting push push tone pots to give me the option of coil splitting both pickups.

 

I already know that BKP's rock! but has anyone here fitted BKP's to their 150's?

 

https://bareknucklep...&pickup=abraxas

 

I have used Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday, The Mule, and Riff Raff pickups in H-150's. All are very well made and have a different tone due to the magnets being used. My personal favorites (at least to my ears) are the Stormy Monday.

[bobmeyrick]

After a while with my H150 Don't think I really like the SD pickups so am contemplating fitting BKP's as I have in several of my other Guitars.

 

Considering the BKP Abraxas & also maybe fitting push push tone pots to give me the option of coil splitting both pickups.

 

I already know that BKP's rock! but has anyone here fitted BKP's to their 150's?

 

https://bareknucklep...&pickup=abraxas

I have a pair of Stormy Mondays in my 150 VSB. I prefer them to the SD 59s which they replaced - they seem to give the guitar a looser feel (maybe due to the Alnico 2 magnets rather than the stronger Alnico 5 magnets in the 59s?). Also the guys at Bare Knuckle are a pleasure to deal with.