old Gibson GA8 & tele project

[bolero]

this AM I decided to tackle the frets on my beater MIM tele, and also swap the speaker out of my '63 GA8 Gibson amp

 

 

had never really done fret dress before, but as the neck is almost unplayable because the frets between 4-10 are worn completely flat, I had nothing to lose....

 

 

first I bought a 12" flat mill file, put black marker on the tops of the frets, and went to town. until all the marker was gone. actually I think i took too much off, in hindsight....oh well

 

then got my trusty stew-mac fret file, and rounded them off. put 2 strings on to test it out...GEEZ, I guess I need to smooth them off!! it was like fretting on sandpaper

 

with light sandpaper, and then a rabbit electric buffer I buffed them smooth on the crowns...put the string back on...that's better!!

 

so I strung it all up, and with some trepidation tried playing a few chords, and bending some strings....wow...it's quite playable now!!

 

 

plugged it into the amp, loaded with a Bell & Howell speaker from a film projector...sounded really good actually. but I have an EV 12" speaker recently reconed with a greenback cone, I want to try in there

 

I recorded it, so I could listen to the difference...here is the before clip, with the B&H...will post the after clip with the EV

 

http://bolero.comyr.com/misc/r05/tele_GA8.mp3

[DetroitBlues]

Brave man to regret your own guitar, let alone re-radius it. Must feel like a pencil thin neck now...

[bolero]

well, I may live to regret it

 

actually I didn't refret, I just filed down & recrowned the ones on there, to match the lower, worn ones. I guess I could have replaced those 6-8 frets but I think that would have been more work & I didn't want to rip apart the neck removing any frets

 

anyway, I swapped in the EV

 

put the recorder in the same place, amp on 10 again, everything otherwise the same.

 

http://bolero.comyr.com/misc/r05/evcut.mp3

 

 

I don't think it sounds nearly as good...buzzier, more bass & less mid range bite...but it is a brand new recone so maybe it needs to be broken in a bit

[bolero]

here's some pics: the usual suspects..actually it's a GA18 ( 2xEL84 = approx 18w )

 

 

 

Bell & Howell speaker that I put in there originally, replacing the stock ( crappy ) speaker

 

[bolero]

one of the speaker wires broke off at the terminal strip, on the amp. my rerouting the cables so they wouldn't touch the output tubes probably did that, over time. I think I'll replace the wires, as they've been spliced by someone previously as well. and move them well away from the tubes

 

 

 

 

EV installed:

 

[Blunote]

Hey, I really like the EV...that is, until I replay the B&H.

 

They're definitely different sounding speakers.

[Steiner]

The B&H sounded more soulful but I wonder if that's because you had the amp dialed in for it. The new speaker has a bite that I don't hear on the first recording, it seems more characteristic of the songs you were playing. Nice chops by the by...

[DetroitBlues]

How'd did you relic that Tele like that?

[bolero]

ah, I didn't relic it....whoever owned it before me tried to refinish it...but it's poly so he made a real mess, it was covered in DEEP sanding scratches all over, plus down to the wood on the horn there

 

I got my little sanding mouse ( was a gift about 4 xmas's ago, that I have never used but it was worth it's weight in gold for this tele!! ) with the coarsest auto polish I could find, and a pad...and sanded down through the clearcoar to almost get rid of the nasty scratches. there is still about 1/3 of the clearcoat on there, but I didn't bother polishing it yet. looks a LOT better than it did.

 

I also used that little sanding mousr to go over the tops of the frets & smooth them out, with a pad.

 

Steiner that's a good point, I never fiddled with the controls on the amp, to keep it all consistent. I think I need to hammer that speaker for a while & break it in. the cone is also much heavier than the B&H, which is also old & a bit brittle.

 

the B&H is 16 ohms, the EV is 8 ohms. the B&H seems much more responsive & brash sounding, the EV is very muted in comparison

 

glad i recorded them now, I almost didn't bother, pretty interesting

[DetroitBlues]

Ah, I think you posted that once when you first got it.. Looks like you played the heck out of it since....

[212Mavguy]

Bolero! Schweet! The EV sounds like is has a much bigger diameter voice coil than the B&H labeled Jensen. I think that it will fatten up a bit more with break in time. I like both speakers, but the EV would find a home more readily in one of my cabs. Was that an sp12b before the recone?

 

I think that part of the Jensen's tones come from the old, brittle paper cone. I'm sure it did not sound that way brand new a long time ago. That ring alnico motor is pretty cool, high quality. I'd recone that one in hemp with a kapton vc and a vented aluminum dust dome for 25-30 watts. I like it a lot the way it is, though.

 

Love seeing your vintage amps and the speaker pile.

[yoslate]

As is.... Love the Bell and...Howl! Pretty credible Keef tone, right there. Love to have that one in a studio...! Thanks for the posts, Chris!

[bolero]

thx guys! still learning that tune, always been one of my faves started working it out last week

 

Bell & Howl...brilliant

 

mavguy the EV is labelled sp12b, made in michigan, too.

 

I bought that unseen from a speaker recone place online, they said it was great for guitar but when I got it it sounded like crap, it was definitely a bass speaker or fullrange they'd reconed it with. I told them & they re-reconed it for me for free, with a greenback type cone. in hindsight I bet it was never designed to work for guitar

[schundog]

Nice A/B comparision, man! It always amazes me how big of a difference a speaker swap can make. Nice going on the Tele, too!

 

I've had an old Gibson Skylark, and I've seen the larger Falcon before; What is the name on the GA-8, and 8 doesn't stand for the wattage, does it?

[koula901]

As is.... Love the Bell and...Howl! Pretty credible Keef tone, right there. Love to have that one in a studio...! Thanks for the posts, Chris!

 

X2

great playing Chris! I always enjoy your posts.

[bolero]

hey you're welcome...this is guitar/amp geekdom for sure, glad someone other than myself finds it interesting

 

Schundog it's actually a Gibson GA-18, I made a typo in the first post

 

"GA18 Discoverer" is the model name....it even has a line out, for a satellite amp, I have yet to try out...but could be useful

 

as good as it sounds, one thing is for sure: in the '60's Fender built much hardier amps than Gibson!!!

 

the speaker is held on by these cheap hollow aluminum nuts, and the cabinetry & chassis is nowhere near as robust as a typical '60's Fender.

 

and it's clean sounds are somewhat bright & thin sounding....but when it is cranked up beyond it's design specs, it sure sounds fantastic. a happy accident?

 

hey that's how all this guitar "tone" evolved. cranking old tube amps

[DetroitBlues]

well, I may live to regret it

 

actually I didn't refret, I just filed down & recrowned the ones on there, to match the lower, worn ones. I guess I could have replaced those 6-8 frets but I think that would have been more work & I didn't want to rip apart the neck removing any frets

 

anyway, I swapped in the EV

 

put the recorder in the same place, amp on 10 again, everything otherwise the same.

 

http://bolero.comyr.com/misc/r05/evcut.mp3

 

 

I don't think it sounds nearly as good...buzzier, more bass & less mid range bite...but it is a brand new recone so maybe it needs to be broken in a bit

 

I like the first speaker better... Sounded much better. You're assesment is right, more bass, less buzz, and mid range.

[smurph1]

I like the first speaker better... Sounded much better. You're assesment is right, more bass, less buzz, and mid range.

Me too..Hey Bolero do you like the Stones?

[koula901]

yeah, after listening to your clip, I had to go learn how to play: start me up.

[212Mavguy]

thx guys! still learning that tune, always been one of my faves started working it out last week

 

Bell & Howl...brilliant

 

mavguy the EV is labelled sp12b, made in michigan, too.

 

I bought that unseen from a speaker recone place online, they said it was great for guitar but when I got it it sounded like crap, it was definitely a bass speaker or fullrange they'd reconed it with. I told them & they re-reconed it for me for free, with a greenback type cone. in hindsight I bet it was never designed to work for guitar

 

Sorry you don't like that ev. You are right, it was never designed for guitar, it was a full range hifi speaker, think originally it had a whizzer cone. So this begs the questions...was the original cone made out of light or heavy paper? How stiff was the original surround and spider?

 

I spent a fair amount of money for a pair of recones, the original speakers were low wattage, high end musical instrument speakers which were originally full range in response...Altec 600b's, 30 watts. They were reconed with high wattage (200) voice coils, a very heavy first generation hemp cone, a large paper dustcap, and a stiff spider. The result was speakers that I liked only for powerful, bright amps, but it were inefficient, after breakin it got too tubby and bassy, so I'm going to need another recone. Lots of $$$ to get it done since they weigh around 14-15 pounds apiece, that means shipping around 100-120 bucks both ways for the pair...ouch! After I got them I was lucky enough to get an original cone Altec 600b for a screaming deal price, and that speaker is flat out amazing in a low wattage guitar amp installation, also about 18 watts. This time, I'm going to use low wattage voice coils, soft spider, lighter weight cones, and lightweight screen dustcaps, possibly will use some factory parts. I have a pair of JBL d123's reconed this way from the same seller of the hemp units, and they are fantastic.

 

What I learned from my experiences is that a recone far different from the original parts or speaker design specs might not yield the desired optimal results. Your sp12b was a low wattage speaker, like 15-25 watts or so, and it might work better with parts more like the originals with regard to cone weight, spider and surround stiffness, FWIW. I'm curently researching the acquisition of the parts and doing the altec recones myself. Hope to be easier than working on tube amps!

[Blunote]

Good luck. I once tried to recone a Boston Acoustics sub-woofer.

 

It didn't end well.

 

I'm sure you'll do better.

[Trouble]

well, I may live to regret it

 

actually I didn't refret, I just filed down & recrowned the ones on there, to match the lower, worn ones. I guess I could have replaced those 6-8 frets but I think that would have been more work & I didn't want to rip apart the neck removing any frets

 

anyway, I swapped in the EV

 

put the recorder in the same place, amp on 10 again, everything otherwise the same.

 

http://bolero.comyr.com/misc/r05/evcut.mp3

 

 

I don't think it sounds nearly as good...buzzier, more bass & less mid range bite...but it is a brand new recone so maybe it needs to be broken in a bit

 

I was scared to death the first time I did a fret dress, the first time I tried a re-fret I destroyed the neck. On a maple neck, there is usually some clearcoat bonded to the frets. No matter how much the guitar has been played there will still be some adhesion at the base of the frets. The neck must be relaxed, or even backbowed some in a jig, and then the frets must be scraped free or heated, to remove the bond, even then some chips are possible. Before you get ready to try re fretting, find someone who knows what they are doing to coach you through it. Congratulations on doing your first fret dress though, doing your own work and having it turn out well is very satisfying.