Both My heritages are in the shop getting a bone upgrade!!!

[Mikenov]

I am getting bone nuts installed on both of my Heritage guitars!!!

Its my birthday present..

and the guitars are ....my precioussssssss (sorry couldn't resist)

But seriously, I am excited ! I can't wait to get them back. Tuning issues have plagued me on both guitars since I got them. Tone good, G string BAD. The one had that previously mentioned neck issue and tuning improved greatly once that was fixed but that G string was still giving me fits.

 

My Taylor has that tusk nut on it and I will tell you, it makes a HUGE difference. That guitar stays in tune for months at a time practicly.

Thanks to Jim W for the recomendation of the tech. I will issue a full report once I got my babies back!

wish me luck!

[fxdx99]

AHHH  Both at once?  Withdrawls, man - hang in here with us and we'll try to get your thru it.  First, put on some good music... have any Allman Brothers?

 

Cool, tho - hope that fixes the g-string problem.  Just gonna hafta play that tele for a while in the interim.

[Mikenov]

I'm OK...

I'm OK...

I'm OK...

I'm OK...

I'm OK... ;D

the tech was saying back on Wednesday. That's not too bad. I have plenty of guitars I think you hit the nail on the head. The Tele needs some love ... she hasn't been out of the case for over a month!

[brentrocks]

that's great Mike!  i bet you will like the results!

[Mikenov]

If its anything like the Taylor I know I will. Maybe the tele is next!

[Kuz]

I have been thinking about giving my sweeties the bone as well!

 

Do tell me if boning yours was worth it.

 

And whats the cost of a good bone job nowadays?

[Mikenov]

I like your vernacular..

for cost, its $50 for the bone nut, and $60 for the setup which I assume is required if are changing out the nut

[brentrocks]

you got me thinking....maybe when i take Goldie Lox in for the pup swap, depending on the fret wear, maybe have Pete do a bone nut and fret dress/setup on it too?

 

maybe?

[Mikenov]

Can't hurt. Glad to contribute to the GAS

[davesultra]

After reading this I'm definately going to bone my Ultra. It'll be the longest 2 weeks of my life (cuz that's the quote for time for completion by the tech).

[Mikenov]

After reading this I'm definately going to bone my Ultra. It'll be the longest 2 weeks of my life (cuz that's the quote for time for completion by the tech).

Got ya!!! >

[Cryoman]

Mikenov,

 

I'm a little confused.  You said the Tusq nut on your Taylor makes a huge difference.  Tusq is just another brand of plastic, basically the same stuff as the white micarta/corian that Heritage uses for their nuts.  The Tusq/Corian/Micarta nuts are shaped with standard plastic forming methods  (they are sold in bags of hundreds preshaped to Heritage, Taylor, Martin, Gibson) and then the PLEK machine cuts them swiftly & easily and exactly the same way each time.  The "tink" and bad tunning problems are because the PLEK can only cut a stright line through the plastic nut without flareing the back end of the slot (toward the tuning pegs).  Tink.  Tink.  Perhaps your Taylor is somehow cut better than the Heritages.  But plastic is still plastic.  You will enjoy the bone replacements in any of your guitars.  Including the Taylor.

 

$50 plus $60 is OUTRAGEOUS, in my opinion.  You can invest in a complete set of quality nut saws for about $75 and then $5 more for the nut blank.  If you do even 1 guitar you've saved $30.  If you do 2 nuts you are down to $42.50 per guitar.  I've done 20 nuts so my tools cost $3.75 plus $2.50 per nut (in buys of 10) for each nut replacement.  A total of $6.25 per nut replacement (vice $110). Hope you'll see my earlier posts on doing your own guitar nuts.  There are tons of places on the internet with instructions on how to make your own custom bone nut.  I still install them for free (er, $3.27) for anyone with a Heritage who stops by in Albuquerque, NM.

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

[big bob]

Mikenov,

 

I'm a little confused.  You said the Tusq nut on your Taylor makes a huge difference.  Tusq is just another brand of plastic, basically the same stuff as the white micarta/corian that Heritage uses for their nuts.  The Tusq/Corian/Micarta nuts are shaped with standard plastic forming methods  (they are sold in bags of hundreds preshaped to Heritage, Taylor, Martin, Gibson) and then the PLEK machine cuts them swiftly & easily and exactly the same way each time.  The "tink" and bad tunning problems are because the PLEK can only cut a stright line through the plastic nut without flareing the back end of the slot (toward the tuning pegs).  Tink.  Tink.  Perhaps your Taylor is somehow cut better than the Heritages.  But plastic is still plastic.  You will enjoy the bone replacements in any of your guitars.  Including the Taylor.

 

$50 plus $60 is OUTRAGEOUS, in my opinion.  You can invest in a complete set of quality nut saws for about $75 and then $5 more for the nut blank.  If you do even 1 guitar you've saved $30.  If you do 2 nuts you are down to $42.50 per guitar.  I've done 20 nuts so my tools cost $3.75 plus $2.50 per nut (in buys of 10) for each nut replacement.  A total of $6.25 per nut replacement (vice $110). Hope you'll see my earlier posts on doing your own guitar nuts.  There are tons of places on the internet with instructions on how to make your own custom bone nut.  I still install them for free (er, $3.27) for anyone with a Heritage who stops by in Albuquerque, NM.

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

 

there is my dilemma, do I order the stewmac nut set, for 192.72

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/...g_Tool_Kit.html

 

and do all three of my kids or pay the tech to do it...?

 

about the same price ... what if I fuck up????? :'( :'(

[Mikenov]

Hey Cryoman,

I did see your post on this. That was VERY cool of you to take the time to show that. I was thinking of giving it a shot for sure but probably on one of my "disposable" guitars. I am a chicken Sh*t when it comes to cracking that nut off of the neck of my guitar. You are talking to a guy who has tried to give his VW bus a tune up only to strip the spark plug socket so bad one of the spark plugs shot out of the engine on a drive home. I also damaged the fret board on my tele a little bit by trying to fix an uneven fret.

you get the idea.

I guess what I am saying is I would just feel sick if I screwed up the finish on the headstock or whatever. Also time. between daddy time and work I just don't have allot of time to do this. I would love to learn. but the trial and error process would just take too long. 

As for the Taylors, I don't know what it is really. It looks darker than my electrics but whatever it is, its done right. I thought it was bone for the longest time but someone corrected me saying taylor's used tusk. Just another example of how little I really know about guitars. I never took lessons or anything so I think I missed out on allot of education about the instrument. Thats one of the reasons I love it here!

Anyway, its allot of money but it will be worth it if they play right.

I have set up my guitar myself but it never plays as nice as when someone who knows what they are doing does it. 

[High Flying Bird]

Good luck Mike.  I don't think I would have the guts to try it either. 

 

Like I often say, "I might not be smart enough to fix a car but I am smart enough to know it."  :wink:

[Cryoman]

Hi Big Bob, Mikenov,

 

I sure understand the hesitancy if you just aren't comfortable with this type of work.  I apologize if I've taken for granted what I've learned to do.  Still, I do think it is nearly impossible to do anything irreversible if you are slow and meticulous.  The only scary part is removing your existing nut and if you score around the all edges where the lacquer is effectively helping to glue the nut to the guitar, a few very small taps with a hammer against a block of wood will separate it cleanly and easily.  (Note: if the nut is "captured" by the headstock faceplate you have to tap the nut out from the side using a small stick of wood thinner than the width of the nut - ie a squared-off popsicle stick or similar)

 

Dan Erlewine has a free article on the procedure at Stew-Mac site. (I think his method is overly complex)  I've posted a similar instruction in one of my posts here at HOC with the method I've used. (I use the old nut as my template for the new one rather than having to use the fancy tools to mark out a new one...)

 

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Nuts,_saddles/a-nuts.html

 

The Stew-Mac "kit" is pretty expensive and they naturally want to sell you "all the goodies".  You absolutely have to have a vice, nut files, a shaping file, several grits of sandpaper (320, 600, 1200 is what I've used).  Everything else in the Stew-Mac kit is optional in my experience. 

 

An inexpensive Chinese made vice can be had from Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.  Here is one for $25 for example.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/sto...970_21966_21966

 

Nut files can be had from www.lmmi.com - for $60 - http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....26+Saddle+Files

 

Or www.warmoth.com - for $64 - http://www.warmoth.com/supplies/supplies.c...useaction=files

 

General Shaping Files - $6 - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...mber=7520 

 

Exacto Knife (or simply a single edge razor blade) - for scoring the lacquer around the back and sides of the nut you are removing - Walmart - $ 1 to 2

 

Sandpaper: 1 sheet each of 320, 600, 1200 - autobody store or tools store - $3

 

Non-Essentials:

 

The small saw (good for marking your initial cut lines) can be had from Exacto (Hobby Lobby) for $5 or 6.  Alternatively you can make these initial marks/cuts with one of the thinner nut files.

 

The long bladed feeler guages - not-essential - best to set the string depth in the nut by feel and how you like to setup your guitar.  The Stew-Mac method using the feeler guages is great if you do LOTS of nuts and in a hurry (ie you are in a production shop).  I like to "sneak up" on the depth of the nut at each string.  You can always file a little deeper but you cannot put material back...

 

If you want to use the feeler guage method you can still use your standard short blade version - had for a couple bucks from the auto supply store.

 

So I think this is about a $100 investment assuming you don't already have a vice.  If you do 3 of your "kids" including $2.50 to $5 for each bone nut blank, that's under $35 each and you will use the vice for other things hopefully.

 

I hope this is useful. As always, I'll help anyone through this if they have questions or get in a bind either through e-mail or chatting on the phone.  I've got a Vonage phone so it won't cost me a dime to talk you through any of the scary parts.

 

Hope you dive in. 

 

Cheers, Cryoman

[Kuz]

Hey Cryoman,

 

I think you said you are in N.M. that's a long way to make it to the HOC reunion, but I would love to see you (live in person) take a nut off, cut it, and replace it.

 

If he can't make it, maybe for next year's HOC event we could ask the boys if they could demo certain actions in making a guitar (live in front of us)

 

For instance,

1. Somebody actually installing a fret

2. Cutting & putting on a nut

3. Binding & inlay

 

Blah, Blah, Blah ... you get the idea.

 

We saw some of the rough processes, and Ren described them great, but a guitar in each stage from selecting/cutting the wood to final buffing would be ULTRA COOL!!!!

[big bob]

thanks cryoman, I am going to give it a try at some point as there are no real tech's where I live and I really don't want to mail my git.

thats the bummer of small town usa...

[big bob]

hey cryoman how hard would it be to remove a nut and shorten it...

Thanks Bob

 

hey I'm at 550 cool  > >

[Cryoman]

Shorten it??? You mean end to end for a smaller width neck?  This won't work as the string spacing will likely be off.

 

If you mean lowering the action on all strings by sanding down the bottom of the nut this is an easy and common method.

 

Cheers, Cryoman

[big bob]

Shorten it??? You mean end to end for a smaller width neck?  This won't work as the string spacing will likely be off.

 

If you mean lowering the action on all strings by sanding down the bottom of the nut this is an easy and common method.

 

Cheers, Cryoman

 

If you mean lowering the action on all strings by sanding down the bottom of the nut this is an easy and common method.

 

yes,..... yes,.. yes .....  Easy you say, where would one find the how to.. and what would I need ..... I really wany to DIY this..

[Cryoman]

OK. So then the only tricky part is removing that nut.  Go to the Dan Erlewine article I linked above.  The method is:

 

1.) Unloosen all the strings sufficiently to get them out of the way. (I just let them go way slack but remaining connected to the tuners.)

 

2.) Remove the truss rod cover

 

3.) With an sharp exacto knife or single edge razor blade, score the lacquer around all edges of the nut.  You are basically cutting (scoring really is the better word) the lacquer along all lines of the nut that are touched by the lacquer.  This includes the top of the nut toward the tuners and the ends of the nut where it meets the neck and where it meets the fretboard (And where it meets the faceplate if your guitar has one).  So this is 3 places to score at each end of the nut: between nut and fretboard, nut and neck, nut and faceplate.  This is done so that when you tap out the nut it does not take flakes of lacquer with it.  Go slow, be meticulous and get the point of your razor right in between the nut and surrounding surfaces.  Cut "away" from the guitar as possible (ie on the cuts between faceplate and fretboard). Do not slip and score your neck.

 

4.) With a square block of wood (a 2 x 2 x 1.5" is ideal - a 2 inch cut-off of a 2x4 will work fine) that is wider than the nut, placing (laying) the wood on the fretboard on the 1st couple of frets and fully against the nut...

 

5.) Tap the wood block toward the nut (peghead) - small hammer is good, handle of large screwdriver is good. I recommend against use of full size framing hammer. - small ratchet handle is good. - the idea is to break the small glue joint underneath the nut and between the nut and end of the fretboard.  Start out easy but you may have to give it a sharp whack.  Usually multiple small but sharp taps will do the trick. Once you've made taps with the wooden block resting on fretboard, the nut is either now free and has popped loose OR:

 

STOP - important note

 

If your guitar has a peghead faceplate (typically about 3/32" thick) that caputures the nut between the fretboard end and the faceplate  (Examples that DO: H-157, H-555, Gibsons, Taylors - Examples that DO NOT: H-137, H-150, H-535) then you want to use a corner of the wooden block to make taps at the ends of the nut to help loosen the glue joint.   Because there is danger of splitting the faceplate with hard taps against the nut's full length width edge, you then have to:

 

6.) Using a squared off popsicle stick or a square or round wooden rod of width/diameter less that the nut (about .182" is what these nuts are typically measureing).  Make small taps at one end or the other of the nut to push the nut out the channel formed by the ends of the fretboard and the peghead faceplate.  I've used the corner of my larger wood block but the stick is nicer in that you can keep it in the channel as the nut is being tapped out the side.

 

7.) With nut free from the guitar, sand the bottom edge of the nut on a piece of sandpaper (220, 320) by placing sandpaper on flat piece of glass, Corian countertop, flat bench top - key is it has to be flat.  Sand by moving nut back and forth across sandpaper, rotate nut end to end occasionally so that the bias of your finger pressure evens out the sanding.   If needed use square block of wood as an edge guide to ensure you are not sanding at an angle.  Sand slowly reducing the total height of the nut.  Let the sandpaper do the work, you don't need a lot of pressure as you sand. Also gently sand or scrape of any glue remnants on any other side of the nut.

 

STOP - Cryoman editorial comment.  Now that you have that cruddy Corian/Micarta/Tusq (it's ALL PLASTIC) nut in your hand, you really want to work on it and put it BACK in your guitar??? (Hint: make a bone nut, you've already come a long way...)

 

8.)  After reducing the nut height to your liiking. (And go slow, you cannot put material back). Replace nut in saddle after cleaning up nut groove in guitar of any debris. You may need to tap it back into the channel from the end.  You may want to do several interations of removing/sanding/inserting the nut each time tuning the guitar back up and playing to ensure the action you desire.  I recommend you force yourself to do 3 interations just to aire on the side of caution.

 

9.) After final nut height adjustment, put a single drop of yellow glue split along bottom and fretboard edge of nut, tap in one final time to exact location (and really be meticulous of the nut's final resting place now that you've added a drop of glue - tap with the rod back and forth as needed to get final best position), re-string guitar.

 

 

I have not always needed to to tap out the nut from the nut end using the stick/dowel on guitars with faceplates.  Last night I replaced a Tusq nut on a Taylor GC8 and with taps from the wooden block sitting on the fretboard, I was able to tap the nut straight up and out of the channel between peghead faceplate and fretboard end.  This is NOT always the case though.  Please be careful and go slow increasing the force of your taps as needed.  If you are tapping hard enough break/split wood then that is too hard.  Go back and re-score lacquer lines and back to small taps.

 

Cheers, Cryoman

[big bob]

OK. So then the only tricky part is removing that nut.  Go to the Dan Erlewine article I linked above.  The method is:

 

1.) Unloosen all the strings sufficiently to get them out of the way. (I just let them go way slack but remaining connected to the tuners.)

 

2.) Remove the truss rod cover

 

3.) With an sharp exacto knife or single edge razor blade, score the lacquer around all edges of the nut.  You are basically cutting (scoring really is the better word) the lacquer along all lines of the nut that are touched by the lacquer.  This includes the top of the nut toward the tuners and the ends of the nut where it meets the neck and where it meets the fretboard (And where it meets the faceplate if your guitar has one).  So this is 3 places to score at each end of the nut: between nut and fretboard, nut and neck, nut and faceplate.  This is done so that when you tap out the nut it does not take flakes of lacquer with it.  Go slow, be meticulous and get the point of your razor right in between the nut and surrounding surfaces.  Cut "away" from the guitar as possible (ie on the cuts between faceplate and fretboard). Do not slip and score your neck.

 

4.) With a square block of wood (a 2 x 2 x 1.5" is ideal - a 2 inch cut-off of a 2x4 will work fine) that is wider than the nut, placing (laying) the wood on the fretboard on the 1st couple of frets and fully against the nut...

 

5.) Tap the wood block toward the nut (peghead) - small hammer is good, handle of large screwdriver is good. I recommend against use of full size framing hammer. - small ratchet handle is good. - the idea is to break the small glue joint underneath the nut and between the nut and end of the fretboard.  Start out easy but you may have to give it a sharp whack.  Usually multiple small but sharp taps will do the trick. Once you've made taps with the wooden block resting on fretboard, the nut is either now free and has popped loose OR:

 

STOP - important note

 

If your guitar has a peghead faceplate (typically about 3/32" thick) that caputures the nut between the fretboard end and the faceplate  (Examples that DO: H-157, H-555, Gibsons, Taylors - Examples that DO NOT: H-137, H-150, H-535) then you want to use a corner of the wooden block to make taps at the ends of the nut to help loosen the glue joint.  Because there is danger of splitting the faceplate with hard taps against the nut's full length width edge, you then have to:

 

6.) Using a squared off popsicle stick or a square or round wooden rod of width/diameter less that the nut (about .182" is what these nuts are typically measureing).  Make small taps at one end or the other of the nut to push the nut out the channel formed by the ends of the fretboard and the peghead faceplate.  I've used the corner of my larger wood block but the stick is nicer in that you can keep it in the channel as the nut is being tapped out the side.

 

7.) With nut free from the guitar, sand the bottom edge of the nut on a piece of sandpaper (220, 320) by placing sandpaper on flat piece of glass, Corian countertop, flat bench top - key is it has to be flat.  Sand by moving nut back and forth across sandpaper, rotate nut end to end occasionally so that the bias of your finger pressure evens out the sanding.  If needed use square block of wood as an edge guide to ensure you are not sanding at an angle.  Sand slowly reducing the total height of the nut.  Let the sandpaper do the work, you don't need a lot of pressure as you sand. Also gently sand or scrape of any glue remnants on any other side of the nut.

 

STOP - Cryoman editorial comment.  Now that you have that cruddy Corian/Micarta/Tusq (it's ALL PLASTIC) nut in your hand, you really want to work on it and put it BACK in your guitar??? (Hint: make a bone nut, you've already come a long way...)

 

8.)  After reducing the nut height to your liiking. (And go slow, you cannot put material back). Replace nut in saddle after cleaning up nut groove in guitar of any debris. You may need to tap it back into the channel from the end.  You may want to do several interations of removing/sanding/inserting the nut each time tuning the guitar back up and playing to ensure the action you desire.  I recommend you force yourself to do 3 interations just to aire on the side of caution.

 

9.) After final nut height adjustment, put a single drop of yellow glue split along bottom and fretboard edge of nut, tap in one final time to exact location (and really be meticulous of the nut's final resting place now that you've added a drop of glue - tap with the rod back and forth as needed to get final best position), re-string guitar.

 

 

I have not always needed to to tap out the nut from the nut end using the stick/dowel on guitars with faceplates.  Last night I replaced a Tusq nut on a Taylor GC8 and with taps from the wooden block sitting on the fretboard, I was able to tap the nut straight up and out of the channel between peghead faceplate and fretboard end.  This is NOT always the case though.  Please be careful and go slow increasing the force of your taps as needed.  If you are tapping hard enough break/split wood then that is too hard.  Go back and re-score lacquer lines and back to small taps.

 

Cheers, Cryoman

 

 

Thank you... I smell  a DIY in my near future..

[brentrocks]

...."calling Dr. Heritage, Calling Dr. Heritage to surgery".... :-X :-X ;D ;D

[big bob]

where are my manners, cryoman plus 1 for taken the time to help me out...