Big Fender Amps

[DetroitBlues]

Maybe one day I'll get the real deal again.... Blues Junior is plenty of amp for now....

[barrymclark]

Back on topic, here.

 

Recently joined the Fender big amp club. Bought a '68 super reverb with a couple blown speakers and what I was told were circuit issues for 350 cash. It ended up running and sounding great with a retube and removing a SS rectifier plug from the tube socket and putting a real tube in there. Then I saw a "9" '81 Silverface Super Reverb with JBL's, on eBay, I bit.

 

The '68 is a blackface circuit, the '81 is a silverface circuit, and for the same model designation, I was quite surprised by the difference in the guts of the two designs, they should definitely be called by different model names.

 

I'm starting off by blueprinting the blackface, that means precise and balanced resistor values to the preamp and power tubes. Also doing a full recap, that includes filter and cathode caps. Parts on order. Then I'm going to rework the vibrato to get rid of the ticking, and get the reverb to work in both channels, when I'm done with that the channels will no longer be out of phase with each other, so I will be able to jumper them with my a/b/y box. Easy to reverse the mods back to completely stock. With that setup the amp will behave like a 3 channel amp.

 

The Silverface? I'm torn on that one. I started out by ordering a blackface speaker harness, the one in mine causes two speakers to work much harder than the others. Not sure if it's stock, if it is, it's poopy. But even with a complement of all JJ tubes and bad harness function, this amp does the Silverface clean thang, beautifully. has a fat, nasty grind dirty thanks to the master volume. The JBL's aren't ice picky either, despite the aluminum dust domes.

 

I'm convinced that the two designs need to be treated differently inside the guts to bring out each's best features. The silverface looks like it will be more tricky than the blackface to work on.

 

There is NO comparison with one of these and any reissue amp in the tone department... The old school wipes the floor with the new kids.

 

I have a nice, inflatable big fat tire dolly that lays down like a cart...and am installing a chair lift for the staircase comiing up from the basement...and not for just these, I like low wattage speakers with big heavy magnets and high wattage speakers with big heavy magnets I also like looking at women with big...ah, never mind.

 

 

 

Dang! Swinging for the fences! That was bold and beautiful. I do feel for the gentle joshing that DB is getting in this thread, deserved or not. I grew up being last picked in recess in elementary school...before 5 years of wrestling in HS and College.

 

Let's talk about value...now if a person goes through Chinese made modern production amps like kleenexes, it doesn't matter. I'm glad we live in such a rich environment where so many choices are available for the other half of our Heritage guitars.

 

I'm seeing vintage SR's in black and silver, on the bay for prices less then the new reissues. And the daddy of tone for big amps, from USA to Eurotrash, the Bassman, in certain models, go for least of all in comparison to the eminently breakable and inexpensively non repairable reissue frauds.

 

Friends shouldn't let friends have crappy tone. 'Nuff said.

I have noticed that with Bassmans. They real deals seem to be going for much less than I'd figure with the popularity of rockabilly and what not going on these days. Which seems strange because there are some small builders out there that are pumping out Bassman-based amps (REALLY CLOSE but with some minor mods) to this or that era and they are charging upwards of $2k. You think that would also drive up the cost of actual vintage Bassmans. Maybe it killed the market. Who knows.

 

 

One of the cooler trends amp wise seems to be the VERY reasonably priced boutique builders in the US. I can't speak for overseas because, just like here, these guys just don't have either the want, ability or both to advertise much beyond local or forum word of mouth. Anyways, the Lil Dawgs of the world really piques my interest for sure. They seem to be coming up in that void that could prove to be the 2nd coming of American made amps. The familiar names have either gone, changed or just cost a ton. So, here come a bunch of folks with little more than a soldering iron and just enough real estate in their garage to pump out amps. You just gotta dig that. Even if you aren't into the types of amps they build, you just gotta appreciate the story.

[yoslate]

Not gonna cut and paste. You've read it. Superb post, Mavguy! Never owned a Super, but I have a pal who's been through a half dozen of 'em, all Blackface. I've played them all, and they were, without exception, great sounding amps...although way too much moving air for me.

[plexirocker 68]

Should have clarified that I was referring to the overdriven tones, Brian. Cleans were fine! I was very disappointed in the overdrive. That having been said, I must mention that my "new" '66 Bassman head really gets it done, even through just a 1x12 cab. The super Super, straight, no chaser, or the 150's with a Tube Screamer, Full Drive...or both, gets me every tone I could ever want.... I could (but won't) get rid of every other amp I own.

Bingo we have winner.

 

DetroitBlues, if you are concerned about modern build quality of current amps and reliability why even consider them? Not to be a douche here but really there are many options of high quality older amps that are well maintained, reliable and just plain a#% sound better than the newer counterparts.

 

Pick up a used blackface/silverface bassman head, get a 2-12 cab and go. Bandmasters are also GREAT heads that are under the big radar. Many times you can grab these old amps CHEAPER than the new stuff, it's a no brainer.

 

There's a lot of goobly gock in the modern amp market. Many times you can simply buy a older amp of much better tone and quality for the same or less money, maybe invest some maintenance money and your good. Give it a try

One of my favorite amps is 43 years old, other than output tubes I haven't had to spend a dime to keep it happy for years. I would bet at 43 years old that it would still out last many new amps built TODAY!

 

MANY great guitar sounds were recorded thru those old amps and a handfull of common vintage pedals, the newer pedals, especially the overdrives crap all over a lot of the older stuff, so IMO older amps with newer pedals puts us in a place to get the best guitar sounds of just about any era

 

 

 

 

 

 

plexi

[Kuz]

Well, you guys missed out on the DEAL of the century and I told you guys so..... MartyGrass's '70s Super Reverb for $500!!!! I still can't believe it went that low. That amp (now going to Bolero, I believe) will last a LIFETIME and will sound better than 90% of any amp made today.

 

But it big and loud..... but luscious!!!!

[Guest HRB853370]

Well, you guys missed out on the DEAL of the century and I told you guys so..... MartyGrass's '70s Super Reverb for $500!!!! I still can't believe it went that low. That amp (now going to Bolero, I believe) will last a LIFETIME and will sound better than 90% of any amp made today.

 

But it big and loud..... but luscious!!!!

 

I almost bought it. It was very tempting. Bolero sealed the deal just hours before I was going to pull the trigger. All that said, I didn't need it or really GAS for it. It was just a nice amp for the money. I will live with my BF 1965 SR RI.

[JohnCovach]

On the 70s amps, try to stay away from the ones with master volume. Silverfaces before that can be blackfaced pretty easily, but once the master volume circuit hits, there's only so much you can do. These amps tend to be a little harsh. Unless it's been done recently, any 70s amp will need to be recapped. You really don't even know how it sounds until you've had that done.

[DetroitBlues]

I can look for an old one... We'll have to see... A friend has a KBP Bassman he doesn't use... Wonder what he wants for it?

[DetroitBlues]

Here's something for cheap.

 

 

 

GIBSON GA-55RVT RANGER 1X15 50 watt all tube combo, dual channels, reverb, tremolo, grey tolex, JBL 15" speaker replaces original 4X10 configuration.

 

Needs some wiring TLC.

 

They want $275 for it.

 

What kind of amp is this? Worth repairing?

[schundog]

Back on topic, here.

 

Recently joined the Fender big amp club. Bought a '68 super reverb with a couple blown speakers and what I was told were circuit issues for 350 cash. It ended up running and sounding great with a retube and removing a SS rectifier plug from the tube socket and putting a real tube in there. Then I saw a "9" '81 Silverface Super Reverb with JBL's, on eBay, I bit.

 

The '68 is a blackface circuit, the '81 is a silverface circuit, and for the same model designation, I was quite surprised by the difference in the guts of the two designs, they should definitely be called by different model names.

 

I'm starting off by blueprinting the blackface, that means precise and balanced resistor values to the preamp and power tubes. Also doing a full recap, that includes filter and cathode caps. Parts on order. Then I'm going to rework the vibrato to get rid of the ticking, and get the reverb to work in both channels, when I'm done with that the channels will no longer be out of phase with each other, so I will be able to jumper them with my a/b/y box. Easy to reverse the mods back to completely stock. With that setup the amp will behave like a 3 channel amp.

 

The Silverface? I'm torn on that one. I started out by ordering a blackface speaker harness, the one in mine causes two speakers to work much harder than the others. Not sure if it's stock, if it is, it's poopy. But even with a complement of all JJ tubes and bad harness function, this amp does the Silverface clean thang, beautifully. has a fat, nasty grind dirty thanks to the master volume. The JBL's aren't ice picky either, despite the aluminum dust domes.

 

I'm convinced that the two designs need to be treated differently inside the guts to bring out each's best features. The silverface looks like it will be more tricky than the blackface to work on.

 

There is NO comparison with one of these and any reissue amp in the tone department... The old school wipes the floor with the new kids.

 

I have a nice, inflatable big fat tire dolly that lays down like a cart...and am installing a chair lift for the staircase comiing up from the basement...and not for just these, I like low wattage speakers with big heavy magnets and high wattage speakers with big heavy magnets I also like looking at women with big...ah, never mind.

 

 

 

Dang! Swinging for the fences! That was bold and beautiful. I do feel for the gentle joshing that DB is getting in this thread, deserved or not. I grew up being last picked in recess in elementary school...before 5 years of wrestling in HS and College.

 

Let's talk about value...now if a person goes through Chinese made modern production amps like kleenexes, it doesn't matter. I'm glad we live in such a rich environment where so many choices are available for the other half of our Heritage guitars.

 

I'm seeing vintage SR's in black and silver, on the bay for prices less then the new reissues. And the daddy of tone for big amps, from USA to Eurotrash, the Bassman, in certain models, go for least of all in comparison to the eminently breakable and inexpensively non repairable reissue frauds.

 

Friends shouldn't let friends have crappy tone. 'Nuff said.

 

Mavguy212, I bow in deference to your amp knowledge and know-how. I am not being a smart-ass, here, I mean it. But I have some questions.

 

1.) Why do YOU think the old amps sound better than the reissues, and by a "long shot" at that? Is it that the speakers are broken in better? PTP wiring? MOJO?! (OK, I'm sort of kidding on that one; I would think it would be hard to not WANT the vintage models to sound better; I would.)

 

2.) Am I wrong, or don't these 40-something year old amps need caps, etc. all replaced by that point? You apparently have no problem doing all that yourself, and I envy you for that, but if you have to replace all that, isn't it just a "new" PTP amp in an old case?

 

3.) DB, like many of us, is a young working stiff with a young family and a rather tight gear budget; He's probably not a candidate for a vintage amp that may need the aforementioned repairs; EXCEPT, I just remembered, he's got a good friend in our own KBP that could do all that component replacing at a reasonable cost. I don't have KBP or YOU around the corner, darn it, and I can barely screw in a light bulb, so I might be stuck if something goes wrong with my old (oops, "vintage") amp that I just paid more than I might be comfortable dropping on something like that.

 

4.) DB isn't playing auditoriums or big outdoor venues; he's in a bar band. If he's not pushing his workhorse Blues Junior over 4, wouldn't one of these beautiful sounding amps be overkill, to an extent? Furthermore, he gets yelled at at home if he pushes the Junior much over 2, from what he has said. He'd be uber frustrated with an amp like a Deville or Super, as he could NEVER make it sing like he'd like it to. He's also notoriously schizophrenic about what KIND of amp he wants, and he can't go out and get all the different types that he'd love to have. Champagne taste on a Beer budget, again, like some of the rest of us.

 

5.) I'd be curious to know if you have given the Fender Mustang series a fair try, and again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. Many dismiss any Asian musical product as "cheap junk" that will break in no time flat. While I don't think they are built to last as long as the stuff from the good old days, a 5 year warranty gets you at least that far, and by then you have HOPEFULLY gotten most of your money's worth out of the thing, anyway, and it's garage sale bait, like an old computer that you decided to upgrade from. I know that they aren't for everyone, and I wouldn't give up my Tweed Deluxe clone, DRRI, or modded Blues Junior for it, but once my kids have gone to bed, and I still want to play with a LOUD tone at a LOW volume, or with headphones, either my Mustang I ($50 used; C'MON!) or my Mustang III give me pretty believable tone. Maybe ignorance is bliss; maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. I don't think so, though. I've played and heard some pretty sweet amps, probably the sweetest being a Blackface Fender Super Reverb. It was heavenly; at a volume that I can't get away with with regularity at home or on stage with my band at church, which rocks out pretty hard! Plexi brought a Marshall Stack to the last PSP, and on Saturday morning Brent fired it up and cranked it up. I had gone to my car, about 100 yards away when he hit the first power chord. MAN, did it sound good! But he couldn't have used it with anyone else playing there in the barn, not at that volume. But the Mustangs give some pretty damn good tones, loudly or softly. Not all non-tube non-USA union-built stuff is junk. One tells themselves that to their own detriment.

[DetroitBlues]

The Mustang series is still in my radar... But there is something about tube amps I just absolutely love...

[schundog]

The Mustang series is still in my radar... But there is something about tube amps I just absolutely love...

 

Hey, me too! Andy you've got a good one for your current application, don't you? I hope you didn't think I was speaking for you, but you guys aren't playing Madison Square Garden anytime soon, are you? I hear even Jeff Beck uses a Pro Junior, miked up, for some shows. That could be BS, Hell, I read it on the interwebs.... haha. I certainly hope Mavguy doesn't take my post the wrong way; I'm just saying that there are other, much less expensive options for a guy on a budget that can't hardly every get his tube amps "into the zone" where they sound great, and modelling has come a LOOONG way, even since the CyberTwin of a decade ago. With Fender Fuse software, you can hook the amp via USB to the computer, and edit much deeper than you were ever able to do on the amp alone, even with the lowly Mustang I. You can do stuff like adjust tube sag, make cabinet changes, etc. that give you so many options. Maybe too many.... I play with the damn thing more than I, you know, PLAY!!

[DetroitBlues]

I guess I see my little bitty amp and wish it was a bigger amp... Guess I really don't need it...

[barrymclark]

I guess I see my little bitty amp and wish it was a bigger amp... Guess I really don't need it...

 

Yea, man. The Blues Jr is a fine amp and if it works for you, who cares what it isn't.

[JohnCovach]

I have a Vox AC-15 I use at a smallish club I play regularly. For that kind of gig, that amp is fine. The only way mic'ing a small amp on a bigger stage works for me is if I'm using in-ear monitors. But the guitar coming back at me through conventional floor or side monitors is almost never enjoyable for me, better to use a bigger amp.

[Guest HRB853370]

Mavguy212, I bow in deference to your amp knowledge and know-how. I am not being a smart-ass, here, I mean it. But I have some questions.

 

1.) Why do YOU think the old amps sound better than the reissues, and by a "long shot" at that? Is it that the speakers are broken in better? PTP wiring? MOJO?! (OK, I'm sort of kidding on that one; I would think it would be hard to not WANT the vintage models to sound better; I would.)

 

2.) Am I wrong, or don't these 40-something year old amps need caps, etc. all replaced by that point? You apparently have no problem doing all that yourself, and I envy you for that, but if you have to replace all that, isn't it just a "new" PTP amp in an old case?

 

3.) DB, like many of us, is a young working stiff with a young family and a rather tight gear budget; He's probably not a candidate for a vintage amp that may need the aforementioned repairs; EXCEPT, I just remembered, he's got a good friend in our own KBP that could do all that component replacing at a reasonable cost. I don't have KBP or YOU around the corner, darn it, and I can barely screw in a light bulb, so I might be stuck if something goes wrong with my old (oops, "vintage") amp that I just paid more than I might be comfortable dropping on something like that.

 

4.) DB isn't playing auditoriums or big outdoor venues; he's in a bar band. If he's not pushing his workhorse Blues Junior over 4, wouldn't one of these beautiful sounding amps be overkill, to an extent? Furthermore, he gets yelled at at home if he pushes the Junior much over 2, from what he has said. He'd be uber frustrated with an amp like a Deville or Super, as he could NEVER make it sing like he'd like it to. He's also notoriously schizophrenic about what KIND of amp he wants, and he can't go out and get all the different types that he'd love to have. Champagne taste on a Beer budget, again, like some of the rest of us.

 

5.) I'd be curious to know if you have given the Fender Mustang series a fair try, and again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. Many dismiss any Asian musical product as "cheap junk" that will break in no time flat. While I don't think they are built to last as long as the stuff from the good old days, a 5 year warranty gets you at least that far, and by then you have HOPEFULLY gotten most of your money's worth out of the thing, anyway, and it's garage sale bait, like an old computer that you decided to upgrade from. I know that they aren't for everyone, and I wouldn't give up my Tweed Deluxe clone, DRRI, or modded Blues Junior for it, but once my kids have gone to bed, and I still want to play with a LOUD tone at a LOW volume, or with headphones, either my Mustang I ($50 used; C'MON!) or my Mustang III give me pretty believable tone. Maybe ignorance is bliss; maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. I don't think so, though. I've played and heard some pretty sweet amps, probably the sweetest being a Blackface Fender Super Reverb. It was heavenly; at a volume that I can't get away with with regularity at home or on stage with my band at church, which rocks out pretty hard! Plexi brought a Marshall Stack to the last PSP, and on Saturday morning Brent fired it up and cranked it up. I had gone to my car, about 100 yards away when he hit the first power chord. MAN, did it sound good! But he couldn't have used it with anyone else playing there in the barn, not at that volume. But the Mustangs give some pretty damn good tones, loudly or softly. Not all non-tube non-USA union-built stuff is junk. One tells themselves that to their own detriment.

 

I fell asleep reading this.........but I stand by what 212Mavguy says.

[bolero]

filter caps need to be changed approx every 20 years: you're not replacing the whole circuit with "a new PTP amp in an old case"

 

other than that, a PTP amp will last forever unless you do something stupid with it

 

naturally you'll have to replace power tubes once in a while ( I get a couple years+ out of a set ) but good preamp tubes last almost forever, in my experience

 

 

it's also very easy to find all but the most collectable "real" amps substantially cheaper than the new reissues

 

the biggest sleepers IMO are the Traynor amps of the '60's & '70's...between $300-500 all day long!! everywhere. hand made with top quality parts & transformers. the YBA1 is 50w, YBA3 is 100w & they are absolute tone monsters. add a pedal and you are ready to take over the world

 

the SF bassman head is probably a bit more, but is also overlooked by pretty much everyone

[schundog]

I fell asleep reading this.........but I stand by what 212Mavguy says.

 

I empathize with your limited attention span, but if/when you wake up, you can try again. I agree with him for the most part, too. The only thing that he (and you) said that I disagree with somewhat is that every non-USA built digital amp is a POS, and simply not worthy of consideration to anyone other than a kid starting out. Expand your mind a bit, and you might be surprised how good something other than what you are used to might sound. Quality of components is another issue, but these things are built to a price point, and WILL break down before a PTP tube amp from whatever era will. Again, I HAVE both, and see the benefits of each.

[DetroitBlues]

I empathize with your limited attention span, but if/when you wake up, you can try again.

 

I've heard they may have some medication for that problem... But maybe that pill interfers with the blue ones?

[Kuz]

I guess I see my little bitty amp and wish it was a bigger amp... Guess I really don't need it...

 

Honestly, DB, and I am not trying to be an ass, but I think this is your problem with picking out gear (amp and guitars). Either you don't know what you want, or you listen to someone else, or you pick out gear with your eyes only. This leads to you buying a bunch of stuff you don't need or find out you don't want or need. Then you try to sell them and you end up loosing money. Sit back, relax, and save up for something you really want or need instead of buying a bunch of cheaper stuff that doesn't work for you.

 

This might come off as mean, but it is not my intention. I am only trying help.

[DetroitBlues]

Well, my Blues Jr has been a fantastic little amp... Its been perfect for my needs, sound great at home and on stage..... My thought is I need a second/backup amp of some kind. Perhaps just find another one of those?

[Kuz]

If backup is your only concern for another amp, why not get a light weight, inexpensive, Line6 pod (or some type of used modeler). I have never carrier two amps to a gig, not that others don't. But the modeler can go straight to a PA as an emergency backup.

 

Or you can buy a used amp.

 

All I am recommending is think of needs over wants, before you buy.

[barrymclark]

If backup is your only concern for another amp, why not get a light weight, inexpensive, Line6 pod (or some type of used modeler). I have never carrier two amps to a gig, not that others don't. But the modeler can go straight to a PA as an emergency backup.

 

Or you can buy a used amp.

 

All I am recommending is think of needs over wants, before you buy.

...and that seems to be the hardest part.

[DetroitBlues]

If backup is your only concern for another amp, why not get a light weight, inexpensive, Line6 pod (or some type of used modeler). I have never carrier two amps to a gig, not that others don't. But the modeler can go straight to a PA as an emergency backup.

 

Or you can buy a used amp.

 

All I am recommending is think of needs over wants, before you buy.

 

I have my iPad/iPod as my current backup rig using the IK iRig Stomp...

 

I did see a used Blues Jr. for $250 and this to change things up with...

 

http://www.carlscust...02?categoryId=4

 

 

But I do have my own table saw now, I just don't know how to use it...

[schundog]

I have my iPad/iPod as my current backup rig using the IK iRig Stomp...

 

I did see a used Blues Jr. for $250 and this to change things up with...

 

http://www.carlscust...02?categoryId=4

 

But I do have my own table saw now, I just don't know how to use it...

 

You'll shoot your eye out, kid! (or lose a finger or two...)