Big Fender Amps

[212Mavguy]

Schundog!

 

OOOOWWWWWoooooooooooOOO!!! hehehe I like your posts!

 

1) The old amps simply ARE what the new amps cut corners trying to emulate. The overall parts quality in many but not all cases is superior, dut to the fact that our military needed stuff that would not break down and work in a variety of situations. They didn't know what they were about esthetically back then, they did it out of necessity, form following function.

 

Some of the parts used have their own effect on the tone, like Allen Bradley and Piher carbon comp resistors, the formulation causes certain effects on circuitry behavior and sonics as well. The new stuff can't do that because they are not made out of the same formulations, and that's not just the resistors, it's the caps as well. Some of the orange drops are getting harder to find cheaply, the films thay are made out of have become harder to find, and demand also is less. The Chinese are notorious for shortcutting the formulations of everything, from steel to food products.

 

2) No, it's not a "new" amp in an old case... the old amps have synergy in their final results, it's not just the caps. It's the whole being better than the sum pf the parts used. Leo was a master of that in particular. So were the guys who made Harmony and Lectrolab amps, they were masters of synergy that made wonderful fondues out of cheap cheeses.

 

3) Although I'm not married, I'm a ski instructor by trade, I nickel and dimed my way into my current situation, I spend less money for tone quality than most do, because I do the personal research and make my own toys by necessity, am a well trained, well informed buyer, comes from immersion in the hobby. That immersion requires a fair amount of toilet seat reading. . Same reason I cook dinner for my dates, couldn't afford the pricy restaurants and besides, I don't have to ask her to come home with me because she's already there. I learn by reading and testing out what I read about, much of it turned out to be BS gossip, had I not tested things out for myself I would never know. Same for my words here, they are not gospel. They only reflect what I have learned, being imperfectly human. I enjoy being decisively proved to be wrong and or incorrect, because I get to learn from others who know more. Yay!

 

4) What does it take to make an amp "Sing? " easy enough to do while dirty, but how many amps, SS or tubes can do it clean? That is a holy grail all by itself. With that said, it's frustrating to get a tube amp to sustain like a SS circuit can, also frustrating to get a SS design to respond to picking dynamics the way a real tube amp can. it's in the tubes themselves, and also in the way SS devices are made. The old guys kept experimenting and tweaking to get to the kind of formula that got the desired sounds. Then the chinese come along, cut corners on their formulations and try to get the same results, it just isn't going to happen. No cigar.

 

Speaking of cigars, I wonder if Steiner, given a Macanudo or Roi-tan to choose from would ever pick up the Roi-tan, it's in both the formulation and assembly that brings the happy face. I'd gladly smoke the Roi-tan...to keep mosquitoes away while fishing, and have the Macanudo by the camp fire fire with some Single Malt. Playing out in a bar band...well I've observed that wonderful tone causes folks in a club, drinking or sober, to behave differently than crappy tones do, they aren't able to explain, but they sure act like they are being subliminally manipulated by the uber tones, and that's because they ARE. And that's in the church house as well as the whorehouse. I'll bet that a stripper does a better dance while accompanied by a hot band than listening to the sound system, it's all in the interaction with the music as well as the musicians. Same thing in church, the congtregation is going to respond to the message more positively if the road is plowed better by the musicians and choir.

 

Playing out, IMHO never compromise your tone or let it be compromised, period. The fun is how you get those tones to happen, as well as the dynamics associated (or not) with them.. It's fun to get your tone set out of different amps.

 

On the Mustang thang, NOT. It's store bought tone. I bet it sounds better than my Hughes & Kettner tube 20 that I got for not too much, retubed and respeakered to better, and far more versatile as well than the Hughes. But it's store bought tone.

 

Store bought tone, wow, how snotty sounding. Yup, it is. A starting point, that's all it is...for me. With that it's like standing at the John Miur trailhead, but the hobbyist or pro tube amp builder is making his own off trail cross country journey from that same starting place, and the lakes and streams with the best fishing are never at the end of a well worn trail, are they? Takes more effort by far. And the best fly fishers look at what the fish are eating and tie up what works, sometimes streamside. Ever see a store bought fly last through 20 fish caught? I have tied ones that do. Roger Penske says it best, Effort = Results. I know him well.

 

Same thng with tone, it's YOUR journey to your places with your own standards of attainment. I have low powered tube amps to practice with at home or play out with. I earned that privelege one solder joint at a time, not just instant plastic gratification. Too bad my guitar playing sucks compared to the likes of folks here. But I'm working on that one too. Getting some lessons started up again.

 

@ DB, listen to Kuz... His words are fair and are spoken from the heart of a friend helping others to be the best they can be.

 

Boutique amps for boutique guitars!

Boutique guitars for boutique amps!

[JeffB]

Im over big fender amps.

I now want massive fender amps. I want them with steering wheels and motors so I can drive them around.

[DetroitBlues]

You'll shoot your eye out, kid! (or lose a finger or two...)

 

If I can handle an M60, M249, M4, M16A2, M203 at expert marksmanship, I think my eyes will be safe...

 

As for my fingers... That's a different story!

[yoslate]

Not gonna cut and paste. You've read it. (Another) Superb post, Mavguy!

 

Feel like an idiot, quoting myself...among other things. Mavguy speaks much truth (including his comment regarding John)!

[schundog]

Nice post Mavguy212, thanks for taking the time to write that. But now, let me get this straight; you are a single ski instructor who can build his own amps and can convince women that you are a romantic devil because you can cook them dinner instead of taking them out?! Well played, my friend, well played!! Honestly, I don't know whether to love you, hate you, hire you, or just beg to let me hang out with you so some of those skills rub off on me, haha.

[James535]

I've owned a 90s Blues DeVille 4x10, and now a Super Reverb RI. So I feel like a bit of thread spamming!

I did like the DeVille but didn't LOVE it. I thought the drive/second channel was un usable just awful tones, but channel 1/clean was stunning. Typical Fender tones, the reverb was nice, the amp wasn't overly heavy (In my opinion) and it looked great in the cream tolex. But after a couple of years I ended up selling the DeVille for a Twin (the modern one with the 25w/100w switch) as I wanted some more versatility, which it definitely delivered. As good as the Twin is at doing so many different sounds well, i have never been able to get THE tone that was bouncing around my head. But over the last few years I've been on a serious hunt to find the tone I've always wanted and after loads of research I've settled on a Super Reverb. It's the 65 RI I ended up with and ohhh Mann is it good. My one has a set of Jenson p10r speakers and the bottom end is incredible, best I have ever heard. The reverb is a million times better than both of my previous Fender amps, and the tremolo sounds so natural. I can't recommend the Super Reverb to people enough, it works amazingly with all of my guitars, H535, SG, strats, teles.

I had my volume set to 8 amd controlled drive off the guitars volume pot at the latest band rehearsal and it was hands down the best tone I have ever achieved. No FX pedas, straight into amp.

So if your looking at 4x10 fender combos, the Super Reverb has got to be the winner.

 

Can't you tell I'm in love with mine?

[DetroitBlues]

I can tell, but where do you rehearse at to play your amp that loud?

[Kuz]

I agree with MavGuy and others that have posted that old amps sound better.

 

WHY?

 

Because of the argument some use that vintage guitars sound better.... they say "Better wood that either doesn't exist anymore, or is not allowed to dry long enough". Well, same argument for vintage amps.... they used better quality components that are either not made anymore because the metal, cloth wiring, ect, doesn't exist or is not made as well. Blow out a transformer on a '57 Tweed Deluxe and replace it with a new one.... DO you know the value of that amp just decreased by 2/3 - 3/4 percent. WHY? Because they aren't made as well.

 

Now to speak out of both sides of my mouth, the boutique amp builders of today build GREAT sounding amps because they build them point to point and with the best possible components available. This is also why they HAVE to cost more, less profit margin.

 

So given you can buy a '68 vibrolux or '68 Super Reverb for around $600. Spend $150-200 for caps and re-blackface the circuit and it cost the same or less than a re-issue..... IS THERE REALLY A CHOICE ON WHAT YOU SHOULD DO? IMHO, buy the SilverFace and get it blackfaced or go all-in for boutique new.

 

It's that simple.

[barrymclark]

I agree with MavGuy and others that have posted that old amps sound better.

 

WHY?

 

Because of the argument some use that vintage guitars sound better.... they say "Better wood that either doesn't exist anymore, or is not allowed to dry long enough". Well, same argument for vintage amps.... they used better quality components that are either not made anymore because the metal, cloth wiring, ect, doesn't exist or is not made as well. Blow out a transformer on a '57 Tweed Deluxe and replace it with a new one.... DO you know the value of that amp just decreased by 2/3 - 3/4 percent. WHY? Because they aren't made as well.

 

Now to speak out of both sides of my mouth, the boutique amp builders of today build GREAT sounding amps because they build them point to point and with the best possible components available. This is also why they HAVE to cost more, less profit margin.

 

So given you can buy a '68 vibrolux or '68 Super Reverb for around $600. Spend $150-200 for caps and re-blackface the circuit and it cost the same or less than a re-issue..... IS THERE REALLY A CHOICE ON WHAT YOU SHOULD DO? IMHO, buy the SilverFace and get it blackfaced or go all-in for boutique new.

 

It's that simple.

Hell, I'd do that if for no other reason than the cost savings.

[Kuz]

I can tell, but where do you rehearse at to play your amp that loud?

 

Set it on 2.5 volume and use a pedal. If you need more volume turn it up. Honestly, if weight wasn't an issue, mine might be all I use.

 

But again you had the same circuit as a Super reverb in your orange deluxe you had with Brian, but sold it. If you didn't like that tone, you won't like a Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, or Super Reverb.... they are all the same circuit just different watts.

[James535]

We play in my works warehouse after hours. It's based in an industrial estate and on weekends none of the other companies are working, so myself and my buddy come down to make some noise!

To be honest, I felt that once the volume was past 6 it didn't seem to get any louder. Just drove the valves harder, or perhaps our ears drums. It's hard to tell which that loud.

[James535]

 

 

Set it on 2.5 volume and use a pedal. If you need more volume turn it up. Honestly, if weight wasn't an issue, mine might be all I use.

 

But again you had the same circuit as a Super reverb in your orange deluxe you had with Brian, but sold it. If you didn't like that tone, you won't like a Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, or Super Reverb.... they are all the same circuit just different watts.

 

Speakers make a massive difference to tone too though. I've heard a Super Reverb with the normal Fender designed eminence speakers and it sounds worlds apart to mine withe the Jensons. Everyone may have already come across it before, but this web ate provides some great insight into different speaker options in Fender amps and what tonal difference they can make..

http://fenderguru.com/

[DetroitBlues]

Set it on 2.5 volume and use a pedal. If you need more volume turn it up. Honestly, if weight wasn't an issue, mine might be all I use.

 

But again you had the same circuit as a Super reverb in your orange deluxe you had with Brian, but sold it. If you didn't like that tone, you won't like a Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, or Super Reverb.... they are all the same circuit just different watts.

 

Maybe that's why I like the Bassman idea since it has the MID and Presence control I like...

[rockabilly69]

I think I can add to the discussion here. I own a few old amps with the crown jewell being my '64 Deluxe Reverb, and I also own a Super Champ XD

digital preamp amp with 6V6 power tube output. I have also owned a 4X10 Deville and a Blues Deluxe. Those circuit board Fenders where the most

unreliable amps I have have ever ownded period! Both amps developed buzzes and rattles that were ridiculously hard to troubleshoot, and both of

them used plastic input jacks that were soldered directly to the circuit boards, and yes, they both failed on me! As for the circuit board Chinese Super

Champ, I used it to record some tracks and for that use it worked great for that after I swapped the speaker in it to a Celestion G10. But those llittle

amps, Super Champ, Mustang, etc, are toys compared to the real deal. Just turn them up on stage and the inferior digital preamp will reveal it's short-

comings very quickly! The most obvious difference is in touch sensitivity and the brittle tone. The vintage amp when at to stage volume reacts as one

with the guitar. A Blackface Deluxe Reverb with a Les Paul is one of the alltime best combos ever! But that tone and feel doesn't happen without cranking

the amp to at least 6 or 7 on the volume. Everything said about the vintage amps is true. The transformers in those old amps have a lot to do with the tone,

and the other components (PTP wiring, pots, caps, resistors) are also critical in both the sound and reliability. New boutique companies like, Vintage Sound,

Clark, Victoria, etc, are nailing the vintage Fender tone with the same type of construction used in the originals. If you can't afford one of those, pre1975

Silverface Princetons can give up the tone! I think you need to spend at least as much as you do on your guitar to get you into the tone zone.

[DetroitBlues]

I've heard that a lot about spending nearly as much on your rig as your guitar.... But stages have become smaller, PA have become louder and better.... Part of me thinks I need a little stage presence, more than a little Blues Junior is providing. But volume wise, it's just fine... I think I was looking into bigger amps because I wanted more air being pushed and the Blues Junior doesn't allow extension cabs...

[barrymclark]

I've heard that a lot about spending nearly as much on your rig as your guitar.... But stages have become smaller' date=' PA have become louder and better.... Part of me thinks I need a little stage presence, more than a little Blues Junior is providing. But volume wise, it's just fine... I think I was looking into bigger amps because I wanted more air being pushed and the Blues Junior doesn't allow extension cabs...[/quote']

 

Yup. Save for clean headroom needs/wants, I've found I don't need all that much in the way of power. Just stage volume is usually plenty.

[Guest HRB853370]

Honestly, DB, and I am not trying to be an ass, but I think this is your problem with picking out gear (amp and guitars). Either you don't know what you want, or you listen to someone else, or you pick out gear with your eyes only. This leads to you buying a bunch of stuff you don't need or find out you don't want or need. Then you try to sell them and you end up loosing money. Sit back, relax, and save up for something you really want or need instead of buying a bunch of cheaper stuff that doesn't work for you.

 

This might come off as mean, but it is not my intention. I am only trying help.

 

DB suffers from impulsiveness. He buys stuff thinking he wants or needs it then changes his mind and then sells it. How many Heritages has he had that he got rid of? I dunno about DB, but when I buy a Heritage, its with the intention of keeping it. Not trying to "slam" him (even though he takes EVERY opportunity to slam me).

[Guest HRB853370]

I've heard that a lot about spending nearly as much on your rig as your guitar.... But stages have become smaller, PA have become louder and better.... Part of me thinks I need a little stage presence, more than a little Blues Junior is providing. But volume wise, it's just fine... I think I was looking into bigger amps because I wanted more air being pushed and the Blues Junior doesn't allow extension cabs...

 

I think you should never have sold your Delta Blues amp. It was perfect for what you are doing. But alas, I could say that about your Reverb Deluxe, and your Marshall amp too. And maybe even the Orange! What does it take to make Josh happy?

[Guest HRB853370]

I've heard they may have some medication for that problem... But maybe that pill interfers with the blue ones?

 

You mean the ones you take every night before bedtime?

[DetroitBlues]

 

 

You mean the ones you take every night before bedtime?

 

Unlike your "Gas" status, I'm 100% medication free....

[DetroitBlues]

 

 

I think you should never have sold your Delta Blues amp. It was perfect for what you are doing. But alas, I could say that about your Reverb Deluxe, and your Marshall amp too. And maybe even the Orange! What does it take to make Josh happy?

 

Don't know Will.... Your dust collectors you call guitars would be a great start!

[bolero]

so what's the consensus? Josh are you going to get a bassman after all?

 

 

[rockabilly69]

Years ago, I had a Bassman like that and had to sell it because if a divorce, I was heartbroken!

That amp was a thing of Aural beauty! I miss the amp way more than the wife!!!

[rockabilly69]

I've heard that a lot about spending nearly as much on your rig as your guitar.... But stages have become smaller, PA have become louder and better.... Part of me thinks I need a little stage presence, more than a little Blues Junior is providing. But volume wise, it's just fine... I think I was looking into bigger amps because I wanted more air being pushed and the Blues Junior doesn't allow extension cabs...

 

I agree on all points, but a good medium wattage amp costs in the same ball park as a used H150! I use 2x12's for every band gig that I do, unless I'm using

my Deluxe Reverb which is rare.

[DetroitBlues]

 

 

I agree on all points, but a good medium wattage amp costs in the same ball park as a used H150! I use 2x12's for every band gig that I do, unless I'm using

my Deluxe Reverb which is rare.

That's why I'm thinking about maybe finding a beat up Blues Junior and turning it into head cab... Who knows....