157 problems with bridge/tailpiece

[jackhicks]

First off, I really love this guitar. I've had a few problems with it, wiring issues and now this, but I'm hoping to still keep it. I'm sick of selling guitars looking for the right one, only to have a new issue with the next one. it doesn't really matter what brand or model, it's really hard to find one that's perfect.

 

Here's the deal:

 

1. I have to raise the Tonepros tailpiece extremely high for the string to clear the back of the bridge, so it goes straight to the saddle. is this normal? It seems that on the Gibson Les Paul's that I've owned, I had the tailpiece screwed all the way down.

 

2. I couldn't get the Tonepros to intonate. I've been doing setups for years and use a Peterson tuner. Every saddle is all the way back except for one, and they still aren't back far enough. I swapped out a Gibson tune-o-matic with some of the saddles flipped. No problem getting it intonated. What's the difference between the two? The saddles on the tone-pro bridge are cut almost to the top of the saddle, the Gibson bridge saddles are cut SLIGHTLY deeper.

 

It's nice to be able to play in tune with the Tune-o-matic, but I have to say it does seem to have a slightly thinner sound.

 

Is it possible either the bridge or the tailpiece was drilled in the wrong location?

 

Thanks!!!!

 

Jack Hicks

[Number8]

I have had problems getting stable tuning on my Prospect as well. Just tonight I wrapped the strings over the tailpiece and it solved everything; however, I have a little bit of buzz on the low E now.

[Millennium Maestro]

You sound like you know how to do setups, is the guitar new? I tend to have the bridge down about 1/4 off the body without the string hitting the bridge... I do have a new 157 that has a more neck angle at the body and requires everything to be raised further from the body but everything is within tolerence.

 

Do me a favor and see if the studs for the tailpiece are either to low and/or too loose in the body... I like to use taller inserts closer to the top than recessed as far into the body as possible.

 

I have never had the same problem you are having now so keep us posted

[High Flying Bird]

Is the action high? I play with high action and I have to move the saddles back quit a bit to set intonation.

[jackhicks]

No pretty low action. 5/64's on the low E and 3/64's on the high E. I think I'm going to have to contact Heritage. It is a brand new guitar.

[fretless]

Can you snap some pics of the 2 bridges , is one a Nashville and the other a ABR-1 ? Those are different widths and the wider Nashville requires a different setup. If the 2 bridges sound different perhaps they have different materials , or saddle metals . You can measure from the nut to the 12th fret , then from the 12th to the bridge . That distance should be 'round about the same with a little wiggle room for intonation . Depending on the angles and construction of the instrument and setup ,it will depend on the bridge and tail piece height . As long as it's secure in the studs I wouldn't worry about height so much . There are things you can do for ex. top wrap the strings or use Faber locking post on the tail which have spacers that act as a standoff and also lock it down to the body. Like my LP

 

since the Gibby is intonating then the bridge location is correct and no need to worry about that , I would measure the distance of the 2 different bridge saddles , see if for some reason the Tonepros is stting differently , if it comes down to the saddles being different , perhaps they need to be filed for the string gauge .

[Kuz]

Something is not adding up. The ABR bridge's bad rap has come from the fact you can't move the saddles as much as the Nashville. The Nashville should intonate easier, but the strings might hit the back of it coming out to the stop tail where you then either have to top wrap or raise the stop tail.

 

Pictures would definitely help.

 

Also remember that the intonation screws are opposite facing on the Nashville vs the ABR. IF you have screws facing the same way on with the bridges then the Nashville could be on backwards. On the Nashville the screws should face toward the stop tail. On the ABR the screws should face the head stock.

 

Again, pics are a must, but if both bridges when installed are oriented correctly and you still have the screws all the way back on the Nashville, you can take out the saddles and flip them around so the flat part is facing the stop tail, thus giving you more room to move them back.

 

We need pics to make the determination, but as others have said, if it intonates with an ABR it will with the Nashville.

[jackhicks]

I heard from Heritage and they said that a top wrap is "normal" for a Tone Pros bridge and tailpiece. Here's some photos.

[Millennium Maestro]

My assumption is the neck angle is a little higher in the heel to body fitting, similar to my new 157 only yours appears more pronounced. I dont have problems with mine, thankfully!

[Millennium Maestro]

This is a picture of mine, AB286xx serial, they look very similar and mine is setup with 10s and works fine... Maybe your bridge studs do not have enough thread in the insert, maybe you need longer thread posts to stabilize your guitar.... Also Contact the factory, they are great guys!

[fretless]

I heard from Heritage and they said that a top wrap is "normal" for a Tone Pros bridge and tailpiece. Here's some photos.

 

Is that the stock bridge or the Gibby ? It looks like you have more room to raise the tail ,just a hair will get the string off the bridge base and it looks like there is more room to adjust the saddles to get it intonated .

[Hfan]

I have to run with my tailpiece kind of high on my tone pros equipped Heritages to avoid having the strings rub on the base of the bridge. With my 157 which has a Schaller roller bridge, I can crank it down. I have compared the tone and it seems to ring better (good enough for me anyway) with them not touching as compared to them touching the frame with the tail lowered all the way. Never tried top wrapping yet. Not sure how Gibson does the spacing but I have noticed Hamers have the tail further back. If you search there is a thread maybe a year ago on this subject somewhere, maybe the family tree.

[jackhicks]

Yes this is a Gibby bridge. I took the tonepros off because I couldn't get it to intonate. All of the saddles were flipped on the Gibson. Both the Gibson and the Tonepros hit the strings before making contact with the saddles. I guess my options are to keep the tailpiece high, or wrap it.

[Hfan]

Yes this is a Gibby bridge. I took the tonepros off because I couldn't get it to intonate. All of the saddles were flipped on the Gibson. Both the Gibson and the Tonepros hit the strings before making contact with the saddles. I guess my options are to keep the tailpiece high, or wrap it.

or take a file to the offending surface of the bridge usually only the e strings hit if my memory serves. I use a piece of standard 20 wt paper to check. Too lazy to go get the spark plug gapper.

[bolero]

my 157 was similar to that, since I prefer to topwrap it worked out great!!

 

I have an older H150 that I can't topwrap

[fretless]

• I suspect the materials are different and that is why you perceive a tonal difference . I see Tonepros has several typs , Nasville , ABR , and a few others . Do you know which one it is that you took off ? If it were a ABR you would most likely need to flip some of the saddles , like mine , I flipped the E & G , also maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that ideally the saddles flat side face the nut as it's a correct break angle for the string . However I can find nothing that backs this up or prove it even matters and as you all know everyone flips'em around anyway . anyhoo my LP again with a Faber ABR & Brass saddles w/ INserts bridge bushings
  
• 
  
• the strings are not touching , though it looks like they are in this pic
  

[fretless]

here is a pic of the old Nasville and stock tail studs

 

 

[jackhicks]

Well, I'm going with raising the posts as opposed to top wrapping. Thanks for all the help! I'm worried that I'll raise them too high, but here goes!

[Thundersteel]

Some of my guitars have the strings hitting the back of the bridge. While some say it makes a difference, I can't tell. When playing with distortion, a bassist or a drummer (or a comination thereof), you won't be able to discern any differences anyway. Just play the fricken' thing!

[Spectrum13]

Hard to tell. With a hand carved top at times the dish can cause a steep drop from the bridge studs to the anchors on the stop tail. The neck set can be fine. The bridge height looks ok to me. I would place a Farber style bushing on the tail stud to prevent rocking torque or top wrap it.

[tbonesullivan]

what is your action/relief set at ?

[Balladeer]

From the picture, it looks to me like the bridge is not absolutely vertical but leans very slightly towards the neck. If that is the case, then when the tailpiece is close to the body, that could cause the strings to touch the body of the bridge before going over the saddles.

[Hfan]

Some of my guitars have the strings hitting the back of the bridge. While some say it makes a difference, I can't tell. When playing with distortion, a bassist or a drummer (or a comination thereof), you won't be able to discern any differences anyway. Just play the fricken' thing!

Good advice and plugged in you're probably right. From the web (pinch of salt etc) I've read that touching can cause string breakage decreased sustain etc. One ex Gibbie CS employee now very skilled (actually like a mircle worker for lost causes) luthier on the Hamer forum says they should not touch (no explanation given). I tried my 150 both ways unplugged, not touching and tail raised sounded better to me anyway. Seemed to ring better or something. Didn't try both ways plugged in, would carry over I guess.

 

Anyone ever file a bridge surface to resolve this condition?

[Thundersteel]

Some of my guitars have the strings hitting the back of the bridge.

 

I just rechecked mine; all my current guitars do NOT have the strings touching.

[jackhicks]

Thanks Spectrum, that's exactly what I'll do.