The Fender Deluxe Reverb Secret Formula is 6-6-6

[schundog]

One old wives tale about Deluxe Reverbs is that they sound great with the volume/treble/bass set at 6, 6, and 6. Not a bad place to start. Tonight, I warmed up my DRRI, and hooked it up through my modest pedal board. It sounded good through both my 555 and 137, especially with my Fulltone OCD distortion engaged. I had the DRRI volume down low, between 2-3, letting the pedals do the work. At some point, I decided to take the board out of the mix, and went guitar-cord-amp, and turned the aforementioned knobs to 6. HEAVEN!!! Just the right amount of overdrive, as far as I'm concerned, and easily cleaned up with the rollback of the volume knob on the guitar. The 137 actually did better at a lower volume on the amp, 4.5 to 5, but both got great tones, clean and dirty, without any pedals. I had a fun night.

 

[Guest HRB853370]

I ran my 550 today through my DRRI, no effects except the 63 Reverb box. I know, why bother when the DRRI has such nice reverb. Well, I was in the normal channel, thats why and I wanted reverb. Nice clean tones. I had the amp volume on 4 and the guitar volume rolled back to around 7. I love that amp.

[rockabilly69]

I don't subscribe to the 666 setting business. Vintage Deuxe Reverbs get flabby in the low end. My 64 is aways around 4 or lower on the bass knob:) But it does start to deliver the goods on volume at 6. Deluxe Reverb Reissues sound nothing like the vintage models, I have tried many of them and they are thin and tight sounding in comparison. Maybe they would sound better at 6 on the bass????

[MrB]

As long as someone else brought up the DRRI, I'll pop my question.

 

I've seen many articles about modest mods to improve the sound, to make them warmer (they are quite brittle),

or cleaner, or to hit the 'sweet spot' at lower volumes. Changes include, retubing, snipping the vibrato out,

taking the preamp tube out of the unused channel, cutting out the 'bright' cap...

 

Question for the amp experts:

Can the preamp be easily moded, by retubing or simple electronic alterations,

(many changes easily done to an original edition are difficult on the printed circuit board RI)

so that one channel has maximum clean headroom,

while the other starts to clip (warm, sweet, sustain, even harmonics) at low volume?

 

Thanks,

Mr B

:

[Blunote]

I've got KBP810 Reverb Deluxe set at 7 - 8.5 - 5.5 with reverb at 3 and vibrato at 3 & 3. Allows really sweet deep cleans or the best kind of Fender crunch depending on how much volume I dial in on the guitar. For those of you who are new(er) to the forum, a KBP810 Reverb Deluxe is a clone of the '65 Deluxe Reverb. It's got a really vintage sounding alnico speaker built on a 1960 Carbanneau frame.

 

Since I play in my office/man cave the rig runs through a Dr. Z Brake Lite attenuator.

[schundog]

I don't subscribe to the 666 setting business. Vintage Deuxe Reverbs get flabby in the low end. My 64 is aways around 4 or lower on the bass knob:) But it does start to deliver the goods on volume at 6. Deluxe Reverb Reissues sound nothing like the vintage models, I have tried many of them and they are thin and tight sounding in comparison. Maybe they would sound better at 6 on the bass????

The 6-6-6 thing is just a starting point, to be sure. Everyone has different ideas of "right." While I sometimes wish I had a vintage model, this is what I've got, so it's all I have to compare it to other than the really good sounding amp model of a Deluxe Reverb on my Mustang III, but I don't want to make the purists head explode about how there is NO WAY it could sound like a REAL Deluxe Reverb! haha. I'm curious as to your thoughts on why you think the newer ones sound so tight and thin to you; I've heard comments from others about it being a new vs old, worn-in speaker, to comments about quality tubes vs the Chinese cheapies the DRRI comes with. I don't buy into the notion that one can "hear" the difference between a PTP vs a PCB amp, but there are those that swear that they can. I have had the "Fritz" mod done to mine, which is outlined below. I still want to have the second mod done to "deflub" the bass. All that said, I WOULD like to hear a good vintage DR next to my DRRI in a head to head comparison, more for curiosity sake.

 

I ran my 550 today through my DRRI, no effects except the 63 Reverb box. I know, why bother when the DRRI has such nice reverb. Well, I was in the normal channel, thats why and I wanted reverb. Nice clean tones. I had the amp volume on 4 and the guitar volume rolled back to around 7. I love that amp.

Here are the "fritz" mods, outlined on the Fender Discussion Page forum. I have had the first one done, which brings the reverb/vibrato over to the normal channel, and it sounds a lot better than before, IMHO. I'm perplexed as to why you didn't just change channels on your DRRI to get reverb, unless you just really wanted to mess with your reverb unit.

 

http://fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=48201

 

And mod 2, bass de-flubber. He explains both of these below the schematics. I really need to get this one done, too.

 

http://fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=64631

[Guest HRB853370]

I don't subscribe to the 666 setting business. Vintage Deuxe Reverbs get flabby in the low end. My 64 is aways around 4 or lower on the bass knob:) But it does start to deliver the goods on volume at 6. Deluxe Reverb Reissues sound nothing like the vintage models, I have tried many of them and they are thin and tight sounding in comparison. Maybe they would sound better at 6 on the bass????

Rock, you wouldnt expect ANY RI to sound like the original vintage model. The circuits different, the speakers different, yaddy yaddy. But the DRRI's still have a nice sound!

[Guest HRB853370]

The 6-6-6 thing is just a starting point, to be sure. Everyone has different ideas of "right." While I sometimes wish I had a vintage model, this is what I've got, so it's all I have to compare it to other than the really good sounding amp model of a Deluxe Reverb on my Mustang III, but I don't want to make the purists head explode about how there is NO WAY it could sound like a REAL Deluxe Reverb! haha. I'm curious as to your thoughts on why you think the newer ones sound so tight and thin to you; I've heard comments from others about it being a new vs old, worn-in speaker, to comments about quality tubes vs the Chinese cheapies the DRRI comes with. I don't buy into the notion that one can "hear" the difference between a PTP vs a PCB amp, but there are those that swear that they can. I have had the "Fritz" mod done to mine, which is outlined below. I still want to have the second mod done to "deflub" the bass. All that said, I WOULD like to hear a good vintage DR next to my DRRI in a head to head comparison, more for curiosity sake.

 

Here are the "fritz" mods, outlined on the Fender Discussion Page forum. I have had the first one done, which brings the reverb/vibrato over to the normal channel, and it sounds a lot better than before, IMHO. I'm perplexed as to why you didn't just change channels on your DRRI to get reverb, unless you just really wanted to mess with your reverb unit.

 

http://fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=48201

 

And mod 2, bass de-flubber. He explains both of these below the schematics. I really need to get this one done, too.

 

http://fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=64631

I like having the "original" style normal and vibrato channels. Also, did you know that one channel is hotter than the other (with no mods)? I ordinarily play through that channel. My board output goes there and I just select whatever FX I need that is why I do that.

 

Now you have MY curiosity. Did you do this mod yourself or take it to an amp tech? Besides making the amp fx available to the Normal channel, what exactly do you mean by "sounds a lot better than before". Sound quality wise? Why do you feel the "need" to get the bass deflubber mod done? Is there something about that bass frequency range that you dislike?

 

I have to be honest, I like the DRRI right out of the box, dead stock. Now I may not have the ears you have grant you, but the low end is tight to me (needs no deflubbing) and I certainly DO NOT need reverb and vibrato in both channels. Lastly, you mentioned Chinese tubes in the amp. Mine are Groove Tubes, and they may be made in China, and if that is true that they are Chinese, I really dont think they have any degradation in quality. Good luck finding tubes made here in the USA!

[barrymclark]

I like having the "original" style normal and vibrato channels. Also, did you know that one channel is hotter than the other (with no mods)? I ordinarily play through that channel. My board output goes there and I just select whatever FX I need that is why I do that.

 

Now you have MY curiosity. Did you do this mod yourself or take it to an amp tech? Besides making the amp fx available to the Normal channel, what exactly do you mean by "sounds a lot better than before". Sound quality wise? Why do you feel the "need" to get the bass deflubber mod done? Is there something about that bass frequency range that you dislike?

 

I have to be honest, I like the DRRI right out of the box, dead stock. Now I may not have the ears you have grant you, but the low end is tight to me (needs no deflubbing) and I certainly DO NOT need reverb and vibrato in both channels. Lastly, you mentioned Chinese tubes in the amp. Mine are Groove Tubes, and they may be made in China, and if that is true that they are Chinese, I really dont think they have any degradation in quality. Good luck finding tubes made here in the USA!

Only NOS US made. GT has (or at least had) a 6L6GE tube that was made to the spec of the old GE tubes but still manufactured elsewhere.

[plexirocker 68]

As long as someone else brought up the DRRI, I'll pop my question.

 

I've seen many articles about modest mods to improve the sound, to make them warmer (they are quite brittle),

or cleaner, or to hit the 'sweet spot' at lower volumes. Changes include, retubing, snipping the vibrato out,

taking the preamp tube out of the unused channel, cutting out the 'bright' cap...

 

Question for the amp experts:

Can the preamp be easily moded, by retubing or simple electronic alterations,

(many changes easily done to an original edition are difficult on the printed circuit board RI)

so that one channel has maximum clean headroom,

while the other starts to clip (warm, sweet, sustain, even harmonics) at low volume?

 

Thanks,

Mr B

:

Here's what I've done on my DRRI

 

There's so much stuff out there on how to "improve" the DRRI it's crazy and to do it all would cost more than just buying a good silverface DR. I see many folks modding these to death only to be unhappy with the results and then dump the amp, reason being they never got to what the problems are.

 

Some folks dig them straight up, that's cool it works for them, no biggie

 

If you want to warm the DRRi up to sound closer to the real deal

 

1. Clip the bright cap- if you do nothing else to the amp at least do this

 

2. Re bias the amp- almost all of these amps are biased to cold from the factory

 

3. Retube- output tubes- these circuits were designed to be used with real 6v6 tubes, most of the modern stuff won't get you there, I buy used but good condition old GE's or Kenrads as they have the true soft,warm and sweet 6v6 sound

 

Lots of folks use the new JJ 6v6's, they sound really good but they are not the same sound as the older 6v6's - they have a tone that's actually more similar to 6L6 tubes as used in twin reverbs and super reverbs, these will make your amp louder with more headroom, tighter low end and brighter highs with a bit more scoop to the sound

 

4. A good ole RCA 12ax7 in the 1st position in the vibrato channel helps a bunch and the other tube change I thought was necessary was to add a good old Rca 12at7 to the pi slot, that was a big deal too, no dought

 

5. Last I changed the speaker out to a WGS G12C which is a very good copy of the Jensens that came in the real deal blackface DR's

 

These are much cheaper fixes than some of the mods that are being done

 

plexi

[Guest HRB853370]

Here's what I've done on my DRRI

 

There's so much stuff out there on how to "improve" the DRRI it's crazy and to do it all would cost more than just buying a good silverface DR. I see many folks modding these to death only to be unhappy with the results and then dump the amp, reason being they never got to what the problems are.

 

Some folks dig them straight up, that's cool it works for them, no biggie

 

If you want to warm the DRRi up to sound closer to the real deal

 

1. Clip the bright cap- if you do nothing else to the amp at least do this

 

2. Re bias the amp- almost all of these amps are biased to cold from the factory

 

3. Retube- output tubes- these circuits were designed to be used with real 6v6 tubes, most of the modern stuff won't get you there, I buy used but good condition old GE's or Kenrads as they have the true soft,warm and sweet 6v6 sound

 

Lots of folks use the new JJ 6v6's, they sound really good but they are not the same sound as the older 6v6's - they have a tone that's actually more similar to 6L6 tubes as used in twin reverbs and super reverbs, these will make your amp louder with more headroom, tighter low end and brighter highs with a bit more scoop to the sound

 

4. A good ole RCA 12ax7 in the 1st position in the vibrato channel helps a bunch and the other tube change I thought was necessary was to add a good old Rca 12at7 to the pi slot, that was a big deal too, no dought

 

5. Last I changed the speaker out to a WGS G12C which is a very good copy of the Jensens that came in the real deal blackface DR's

 

These are much cheaper fixes than some of the mods that are being done

 

plexi

Wow, more great stuff from knowledgable folks on this forum. Thanks for the insights Plexi! You raise a very valid point about "the law of diminishing returns". I can see where modding an amp can end up costing more than the purchase price (especially if you dont do it yourself).

[schundog]

^{Good stuff, Plexirocker! I'm not familiar with the speaker you mentioned, I'll have look it up. I've heard many guys speak highly of the Weber replacement. The first fritz mod I linked emulates the vibrato channel with the bright cap clipped.}

 

^{Slammer, no, I had an amp tech friend do the first mod. He wouldn't even take money for it, as he said it was so easy. Of course, this voided my warranty. Regarding what the mods accomplish, like I said in my previous post, read the description under the schematics (pretty pictures.)}

[barrymclark]

^{Good stuff, Plexirocker! I'm not familiar with the speaker you mentioned, I'll have look it up. I've heard many guys speak highly of the Weber replacement. The first fritz mod I linked emulates the vibrato channel with the bright cap clipped.}

 

^{Slammer, no, I had an amp tech friend do the first mod. He wouldn't even take money for it, as he said it was so easy. Of course, this voided my warranty. Regarding what the mods accomplish, like I said in my previous post, read the description under the schematics (pretty pictures.)}

Warehouse Guitar Speakers. Never used one but they seem well liked.

[bolero]

+1 to plexirocker....I would buy a SF fender over any of the reissues

[barrymclark]

+1 to plexirocker....I would buy a SF fender over any of the reissues

Even if the RI's are exact reproductions, the quality of components just aren't as available these days unless you find NOS. Sad... but what can you do?

[Guest HRB853370]

+1 to plexirocker....I would buy a SF fender over any of the reissues

A. IF you can afford one get one

B. If you get one, you may have to sink more money into replacing filter caps, speakers, etc.

 

I think buying a USED reissue is not a bad decision from a monetary point of view. Of course they will not appreciate like a SF or early BF.

[TalismanRich]

This fellow had his DRRI rebuilt some years ago. He works for one of my customer plants, but I haven't been up to that plant in quite a few years. I wanted to get with him to hear what it sounded like. Things just haven't worked out. Hopefully I'll get up there some time in the next year or so.

 

http://deluxereverb.waynereno.com/index.html

[Blunote]

Rather than churning through lots of gear, figure out what you want, and save up for quality. A 70's vintage SF Fender isn't that much more than a used DRRI. Considering how many years you'll keep and use the good stuff, the difference doesn't seem that prohibitive.

[Guest HRB853370]

This fellow had his DRRI rebuilt some years ago. He works for one of my customer plants, but I haven't been up to that plant in quite a few years. I wanted to get with him to hear what it sounded like. Things just haven't worked out. Hopefully I'll get up there some time in the next year or so.

 

http://deluxereverb.waynereno.com/index.html

So basically he took a RI and converted it to handwired??

[Guest HRB853370]

Rather than churning through lots of gear, figure out what you want, and save up for quality. A 70's vintage SF Fender isn't that much more than a used DRRI. Considering how many years you'll keep and use the good stuff, the difference doesn't seem that prohibitive.

That depends. What kind of condition is your 70's SF going to be in? Do you want something with a trashed out cabinet? The pristine stuff goes for much more than a brand NEW DRRI. A used DRRI would go for around $500. Show me a SF DR that you could get for that price and not be trashed out.

[TalismanRich]

It was rebuilt, but there were some changes. The basic circuitry stayed the same. Everything is explained in the article.

In the end, you basically have a handwired DR. That wouldn't be much different from what you would get from the likes of Marsh, Allen, Weber, Clark or KBP.

[Guest HRB853370]

It was rebuilt, but there were some changes. The basic circuitry stayed the same. Everything is explained in the article.

 

In the end, you basically have a handwired DR. That wouldn't be much different from what you would get from the likes of Marsh, Allen, Weber, Clark or KBP.

Except for the price. I guess I am just happy with my stock DR. Don't need any mods. Don't want any mods. Don't even know if I would hear the difference.

[Blunote]

That depends. What kind of condition is your 70's SF going to be in? Do you want something with a trashed out cabinet? The pristine stuff goes for much more than a brand NEW DRRI. A used DRRI would go for around $500. Show me a SF DR that you could get for that price and not be trashed out.

Seems like I've seen a number of SF Fender amps in good shape for $700-850 over the last few years. Here's a '75 SF Princeton Reverb at Elderly

 

http://elderly.com/images/vintage/130U/130U-10094_front.jpg

\

 

Here's a 74 SF twin Reverb $550:

http://elderly.com/images/vintage/130U/130U-10104_front.jpg

 

Here's a '74 for $650:

http://elderly.com/images/vintage/130U/130U-9927_front.jpg

 

Here's a '64 Princeton for $900

http://elderly.com/images/vintage/130U/130U-9967_front.jpg

 

I just did a quick search of Elderly's stock. I'm sure with a little more effort, you could do better.

[Blunote]

Damn, I'm not fond of the inability to delete a post. Lets try again.

 

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-10094.htm '75Princeton Reverb $850

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-10104.htm '74 Twin Reverb $550

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9927.htm Another '74 Twin Reverb $685

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9967.htm '64 Princeton in great shape cosmetically $900

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9779.htm '72 Super Reverb

 

Slammer, these are PTP handwired amps and are entirely serviceable -more so than an later circuit board based reissue.

[Guest HRB853370]

Damn, I'm not fond of the inability to delete a post. Lets try again.

 

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-10094.htm '75Princeton Reverb $850

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-10104.htm '74 Twin Reverb $550

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9927.htm Another '74 Twin Reverb $685

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9967.htm '64 Princeton in great shape cosmetically $900

http://elderly.com/vintage/items/130U-9779.htm '72 Super Reverb

 

Slammer, these are PTP handwired amps and are entirely serviceable -more so than an later circuit board based reissue.

Not bad at all