jamison162 Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 Oh boy here we go... I made three changes to the Goldtop the other night and it totally transformed into a totally different guitar. Some aspects I like, some I don't. 1) Installed locking Grovers (18:1) 2) Put on a fresh set of regular EB 10's. 3) Switched to a Gotoh lightweight aluminum tailpiece. I knew there were gonna be some changes tonally, but man, I wasn't expecting what I heard. Much brighter, airier, clarity. A little to much though, I fell I lost some umph. I'm also hearing a weird metallic string noise when sliding up and down the neck, a particular sound I've never picked up on before. I don't know if it's the strings, tuners or aluminum tailpiece. If yall had to take a guess, which change would you think has the most to do with what I'm *not* liking about these changes? I'm thinking it's the aluminum tailpiece. What percentage do you reckon tuners affect tone? It almost sounds like the strings are strung up between two metal poles, hehehe.....which, I guess they are.
Thundersteel Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 I would venture to say that it's the tailpiece. Put the original back on, using the same strings if you can, and see what happens.
JeffB Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 I would venture to say that it's the tailpiece. Put the original back on, using the same strings if you can, and see what happens. +1
Spectrum13 Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 Were the old strings wasted? I just ordered one for my 150 so I'll let you know.
GuitArtMan Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 Yes the aluminum tail piece will make it some what brighter, airy sounding with increased clarity. I alsi notice it sounds a little more dynaimc - accentuates the attack of a note rather then smoothing it out. Some like it, some don't. What I don't get is the people who say it increases the sustain. I didn't hear that, if anything it decreased it just a tad. Personaly I like the clarity and the dynamics of thr aluminum tail piece.
jamison162 Posted August 8, 2008 Author Posted August 8, 2008 I dug these up from another thread and thoght it would be a good resource for a lot of folks since this comes up often. The tonal differences are very apparent and right own with my recent experience. I much prefer the heavier zink tailpieces. For those who think there is no difference or that you couldn't/can't hear a difference.....here it is in black and white. (These are not my clips, just links...) Stock, heavier zinc: http://www.freewebs.com/luddemarre/clips/T...l_tailpiece.mp3 Lightweight aluminum: http://www.freewebs.com/luddemarre/clips/T...t_tailpiece.mp3 Anybody wanna buy a chrome Gotoh aluminum tailpiece.
111518 Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 The rock creds of the zinc stop would be self-evident if we stuck to the traditional nomenclature: "Pot" "Metal" "Tail" "Piece" This has to be a great product. What's not to like? It's the perfect storm of guitar marketing!*** ***Disclaimer: Terms associated only with pre-marriage youth of current HOC membership. Admission of inhalation optional. "Tail" and "piece" have become gender neutral, so joke has no sexist intent or content. I'm lying like a dog about liking metal, but lots of you guys do, and word play requires a little license.
High Flying Bird Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 The rock creds of the zinc stop would be self-evident if we stuck to the traditional nomenclature: "Pot" "Metal" "Tail" "Piece" This has to be a great product. What's not to like? It's the perfect storm of guitar marketing!*** ***Disclaimer: Terms associated only with pre-marriage youth of current HOC membership. Admission of inhalation optional. "Tail" and "piece" have become gender neutral, so joke has no sexist intent or content. I'm lying like a dog about liking metal, but lots of you guys do, and word play requires a little license. Hahahahahahaha............
111518 Posted August 8, 2008 Posted August 8, 2008 I dug these up from another thread and thoght it would be a good resource for a lot of folks since this comes up often. The tonal differences are very apparent and right own with my recent experience. I much prefer the heavier zink tailpieces. For those who think there is no difference or that you couldn't/can't hear a difference.....here it is in black and white. (These are not my clips, just links...) Stock, heavier zinc: http://www.freewebs.com/luddemarre/clips/T...l_tailpiece.mp3 Lightweight aluminum: http://www.freewebs.com/luddemarre/clips/T...t_tailpiece.mp3 Anybody wanna buy a chrome Gotoh aluminum tailpiece. I shouldn't have hijacked Jamison's thread with my stupid joke ...someone might want to buy an aluminum tailpiece, or check out these clips...
paul144 Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 how can you tell if you have an alum tailpiece? I bought my 150 goldtop used, and when I changed strings, I noticed how really LIGHT the tailpiece was. Weighed about 2 ounces if that much. Is ZInc magnetic? A magnet will not stick to my tailpiece.
wingnut1 Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 I have one on my Gword LP and I have it top wrapped. I really like the sound of it.
jamison162 Posted August 15, 2008 Author Posted August 15, 2008 how can you tell if you have an alum tailpiece? I bought my 150 goldtop used, and when I changed strings, I noticed how really LIGHT the tailpiece was. Weighed about 2 ounces if that much. Is ZInc magnetic? A magnet will not stick to my tailpiece. If it is that light and non-magnetic, than yes it is aluminum. When you "tone-tap" it is it bright and plinky? There are a lot and rave reviews and hype surrounding the aluminum tailpiece and many LP owners actually do like it. After reading all this stuff and waiting in anticipation, after finally trying one, I am NOT a fan. I just don't get it. Hehehe. Reminds me of the Bogner Shiva, man I found out about that amp and listened to clips and read reviews for like two years. When I finally had ther opportunity to try one, I was really let down. Not a bad amp by a long shot, but I had waited soo long, it had obtained God like status in my mind and couldn not live up to my make-believe standards. My Orange Rockerverb 50, however, was a surprise that came out of nowhere.
Kuz Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 If it is that light and non-magnetic, than yes it is aluminum. When you "tone-tap" it is it bright and plinky? There are a lot and rave reviews and hype surrounding the aluminum tailpiece and many LP owners actually do like it. After reading all this stuff and waiting in anticipation, after finally trying one, I am NOT a fan. I just don't get it. Hehehe. Reminds me of the Bogner Shiva, man I found out about that amp and listened to clips and read reviews for like two years. When I finally had ther opportunity to try one, I was really let down. Not a bad amp by a long shot, but I had waited soo long, it had obtained God like status in my mind and couldn not live up to my make-believe standards. My Orange Rockerverb 50, however, was a surprise that came out of nowhere. Sorry, I got to jump in here. I might agree with you about the tail piece, but I have played a wide selection of boutique amps and the Bogner Shiva El34 amp is the greatest sounding amp I have ever played or owned. I have played & heard Orange amps, but the Shiva is in another league. GREAT sounding clean tone (even for el34s) and an incredible tone for warm breakup through ACDC/EVH/JIMI tones. While it has more gain then I will ever use, some metal/nu-metal players don't like and are trying to mod it to get more gain. To each his own, but I had to jump in and defend the Shiva. The greatest Rock&Roll amp ever in my opinion, and I will keep mine forever.
jamison162 Posted August 15, 2008 Author Posted August 15, 2008 Sorry, I got to jump in here. I might agree with you about the tail piece, but I have played a wide selection of boutique amps and the Bogner Shiva El34 amp is the greatest sounding amp I have ever played or owned. I have played & heard Orange amps, but the Shiva is in another league. GREAT sounding clean tone (even for el34s) and an incredible tone for warm breakup through ACDC/EVH/JIMI tones. While it has more gain then I will ever use, some metal/nu-metal players don't like and are trying to mod it to get more gain. To each his own, but I had to jump in and defend the Shiva. The greatest Rock&Roll amp ever in my opinion, and I will keep mine forever. Yep to each his own, not knocking your amp. I played both EL34 and 6L6 Shiva's and greatly prefereed the 6L6, as a lot of folks do after hearing all the EL34 hype for years. I was dissapointed in the EL34 version, the first Shiva I ever played. Then I heard the 6L6 and bought one at the same time I owned my Orange. I also was really diggin the Budda SDII's at that time, but after all was said and done, I sold the Shiva and kept the Orange. Haven't had second thoughts at all. They are different amps and sound different, it's simple. Both are superior to A LOT of other amps on the marker. But the Shiva is not "IN ANOTHER LEAGUE", that statement is just silly. The Shiva can't sound like this (check out the dirty tones at 1:45): http://vimeo.com/1506049 One other side note: I played a Duende when they first came out and that amp was a even bigger dissapointment than the Shiva. They dissapered for a while, I guess while Bogner was still working things out with them, but they are back on the market now.
JeffB Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Im probably way out of line here... But, Everyone has there own take on gear and tone, its good to discuss these things. Fun infact to read and learn. But to call some one elses view points "silly" or "ignorant" is just lowering the level of discussion. My personal favourite amp would have others scratching their head wondering what I see in it. But I would hope that they would have the manners to just say they dont like it, rather than say my opinions are silly.
SouthpawGuy Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Im probably way out of line here... But,Everyone has there own take on gear and tone, its good to discuss these things. Fun infact to read and learn. But to call some one elses view points "silly" or "ignorant" is just lowering the level of discussion. My personal favourite amp would have others scratching their head wondering what I see in it. But I would hope that they would have the manners to just say they dont like it, rather than say my opinions are silly. I would agree with you on that tully, each to their own and mutual respect etc.
Mikenov Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 I just got my 140 back 2 days ago. Got to play it BRIEFLY over at Jim Ws and Alicia's place, I stopped by to show them the results! They gave me a reference to a GREAT tech out by my place and he is the one who installed the bones on both my heritages. It took longer on the Gold 140 b/c he recomended adding locking Tone Pros to the 140 to replace the Schallers. So far, well, between the new nut, playing in tune perfectly, and the new hardware I have to say this has gone from an above average guitar to really my #1 axe (sorry H150 Cherry burst, we never really new ya). Keep in mind this is with VERY limited played but the action is perfect, the tone is really improved ( he adjusted the P-rails . It took some routing b/c the cavity wasn't deep enough to acomodate the wire that sits below the pickup). I honestly was a bit disapointed with this guitar before he worked on it and afterwords, what a huge difference. Full disclosure, I got to play it for about 30 minutes the day I picked it up, and haven't had a minute to even look at it since then. Opinions can change but for right now I am thrilled. On the negative there is no way for me to determine if the tone improvement is from 1) the bone nut 2) proper set up of the pickups 3) the new improved hardware/tailpiece I will say though I am sold on the fact that a properly set up guitar with top quality hardware unquestionably makes a HUGE difference. Frankly the 140 wasn't really a keeper until AFTER this work. Brent will tell you that guitar was very much in play. Not so much now.
Mikenov Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Oh, and +1 to alicia and Jim for the hospitality and great recomendation! I appreciate it!
Kuz Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Yep to each his own, not knocking your amp. I played both EL34 and 6L6 Shiva's and greatly prefereed the 6L6, as a lot of folks do after hearing all the EL34 hype for years. I was dissapointed in the EL34 version, the first Shiva I ever played. Then I heard the 6L6 and bought one at the same time I owned my Orange. I also was really diggin the Budda SDII's at that time, but after all was said and done, I sold the Shiva and kept the Orange. Haven't had second thoughts at all. They are different amps and sound different, it's simple. Both are superior to A LOT of other amps on the marker. But the Shiva is not "IN ANOTHER LEAGUE", that statement is just silly. The Shiva can't sound like this (check out the dirty tones at 1:45): http://vimeo.com/1506049 One other side note: I played a Duende when they first came out and that amp was a even bigger dissapointment than the Shiva. They dissapered for a while, I guess while Bogner was still working things out with them, but they are back on the market now. Yea, your right the Shiva doesn't sound like that, thank goodness! But keep rockin' on. Man, you like what you like and that's cool. What kind of music do you play? Obviously certain amps are voiced & preferred for certain musical styles. Can I assume you are into metal? I don't think you said why you didn't like the Shiva. Do you like higher gain amps? Orange amps are great, but I prefer the clean channel on the Shiva and the lower gain (still quite a bit of gain in my opinion) for more of the Gary Moore and Billy Gibbons, like tones.
jamison162 Posted August 15, 2008 Author Posted August 15, 2008 The Shiva is more modern and refined sounding to me. My RV50 (6V6's) through Scumback M75's is the best Classic Rock tone I've ever been able to achieve. This amp, to me, is more versatile than any other amp I've ever owned. The RV50's clean channel shines with those 6V6's, think Deluxe Reverb but better. The Orange is way more organic sounding than the Bogner. I'de buy a Budda over another Bogner.
Dick Seacup Posted August 15, 2008 Posted August 15, 2008 Yea, your right the Shiva doesn't sound like that, thank goodness! But the guy playing is wearing those cool 80s checkerboard Vans. I think that being stylish improves the tone of any amp. No, seriously, I love checkerboard Vans. I would have a pair right now except my wife told me she would find ways to make my life a living hell if I brought a pair home. I can't even get the plaid ones. None. Nada. Zilch. Anyway, is that you playing in the Orange clip, jamison162?
Kuz Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 The Shiva is more modern and refined sounding to me. My RV50 (6V6's) through Scumback M75's is the best Classic Rock tone I've ever been able to achieve. This amp, to me, is more versatile than any other amp I've ever owned. The RV50's clean channel shines with those 6V6's, think Deluxe Reverb but better. The Orange is way more organic sounding than the Bogner. I'de buy a Budda over another Bogner. J162, I really have improved the tone of my Shiva by replacing the first 2 preamp tubes to lower out put 12AX7s. It removed any buzz to now a smooth break up to Gary Moore tone. Again, to each his own and maybe you just can't get past the 6V6 tones- which is very understandable, but with lower output preamp tubes in the first two positions and breaking in the vintage 30s in the oversized 2x12 cabinet I can nail any classic Marshall el34 tone from Rev Billy Gibbons to Joe Walsh to Robben Ford to Gary Moore. You also didn't state if you got a combo Shiva or the Head/Cab version. I have the Head/Cab and they are completely different from the combo version which is known to have a poor speaker as an issue. Good luck with your amp as well.
jamison162 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 But the guy playing is wearing those cool 80s checkerboard Vans. I think that being stylish improves the tone of any amp. No, seriously, I love checkerboard Vans. I would have a pair right now except my wife told me she would find ways to make my life a living hell if I brought a pair home. I can't even get the plaid ones. None. Nada. Zilch. Anyway, is that you playing in the Orange clip, jamison162? Nope, that's THE MAN, The Orange designer guru himself...Adrian (Ade) Emsley; followed by Marc Ford (Black Crowes).
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