Everything I wanted to know about neck carves, but am afraid to ask

PrairieDude · March 25, 2013

Hello Folks,

I want to pick all of your brains again. I see a lot of discussion on here about neck carves. And I understand that hand carved necks can vary from guitar to guitar, sometimes dramatically, as compared to machine carved necks. I usually see neck carves described for Heritage guitars as C shaped, and vary from somewhat thin to chunky.

My current guitar has what is usually called a '60's style D shaped neck, and it fits me well. I don't have large hands or long fingers, and I need as little of the neck filling my palm as possible to give my fingers a fighting chance on the fretboard side.

So are there any Heritage solid body guitar models, or years, that have thinner necks that I should be looking for? I can't go down to a music store and try out dozens of Heritage guitars because there are no dealers near.

Thanks guys and gals!

eljay · March 25, 2013

my impression is that neck carve is specific to each guitar, not to model.

my 157 and 576 both have thin necks; my 150lw is noticeably chunkier, as is my 137.

efflux · March 25, 2013

I can give you the circumference of mine at the first fret. This is the best measurement because it gives you the amount of wood rather than the shape. Both my guitars are 2012. These measurements are from fretboard edge on one side to fretboard edge on the other side which seems to be a standard way to measure this and I'll give it in inches since you are from the US. We tend to use metric and imperial in the UK. I have an H-150 and an H-575. Both are approximately 2 3/4 inches. However I think the H-150 has slightly more wood at the edges whereas the H-575 is deeper from fretboard to back of neck (I haven't measured that though). My personal peference is reasonablly thick necks and ones that don't have so much wood along the edge. I have a Les Paul Traditional which has a thicker neck than the Heritages but it has way more wood at the edges. I think people refer to this as the shoulder. I don't mind so much the thickness but I'm not keep on the heavy shoulder profile. I have a Telecaster with thinner neck. I don't really like that.

I think you play as thick a neck as is comfortable. It effects tone as well. I'd be happy with sligthly thicker than my Heritages but they are not thin. My hands are probably reasonably average size but I do have longer fingers. My favourite neck (or nearest to ideal) is the H-575 with less shoulder.

PrairieDude · March 26, 2013

I can give you the circumference of mine at the first fret. This is the best measurement because it gives you the amount of wood rather than the shape. Both my guitars are 2012. These measurements are from fretboard edge on one side to fretboard edge on the other side which seems to be a standard way to measure this and I'll give it in inches since you are from the US. We tend to use metric and imperial in the UK. I have an H-150 and an H-575. Both are approximately 2 3/4 inches. However I think the H-150 has slightly more wood at the edges whereas the H-575 is deeper from fretboard to back of neck (I haven't measured that though). My personal peference is reasonablly thick necks and ones that don't have so much wood along the edge. I have a Les Paul Traditional which has a thicker neck than the Heritages but it has way more wood at the edges. I think people refer to this as the shoulder. I don't mind so much the thickness but I'm not keep on the heavy shoulder profile. I have a Telecaster with thinner neck. I don't really like that.

I think you play as thick a neck as is comfortable. It effects tone as well. I'd be happy with sligthly thicker than my Heritages but they are not thin. My hands are probably reasonably average size but I do have longer fingers. My favourite neck (or nearest to ideal) is the H-575 with less shoulder.

Thanks. My guitar is about 2 11/16 measured this way. It's not that far off. This is good news!

goSteelers · March 26, 2013

I share your concern on the subject of neck shape / thickness when it comes to heritage guitars. To me, it is vitally important in how well I like a guitar, and it's always the first question I ask when considering a purchase. You can change most anything on a set neck electric guitar easily, except the wood it's made from and the neck. I think it's important most serious guitarists, regardless of their specific preference, yet it seems to be lacking in quantitative specification. We use terms like "chunky" and "60s style" -- but what do those really mean? I've even seen people say things like "it's not so much like a 59 neck, more like a 58". Not a very accurate way to describe something so important, especially given that most people have never held either one of those guitars. There are many Heritage guitars I've seen for sale on this forum, and elsewhere, that I pass on, because the neck is described as "medium" -- but maybe one person's "medium" is another's thick or thin, and I would like the neck after all.

I too have smaller hands / fingers, and must have a thin neck (with binding) to enjoy playing a guitar. I would conjecture that people with larger hands can tolerate more variance in necks because their hand can compensate more easily, but I don't really know. And surely some people with small hands like thick necks -- it's all up to the individual and many factors go into what type a neck a person might like best. I can only speak for what I like.

Having said all that, I've thought about this a lot, and here are some things I've concluded about finding a Heritage with a neck you like (although I still consider myself a novice and would like to hear other people's opinions on this):

Buying new:

This is the easy option, but you needs the bucks to be able to buy one new. If time and money are not an issue, take a guitar that has a neck you love to the Heritage shop, have them measure it up for you and have them make a guitar with a neck just like it.

If you don't want to wait as long as that would take, fly to Orlando (cheapest destination in Florida by far), rent a car and drive to Wolfe's guitars, where you could play a variety of Heritages and pick one that has a neck you like. I would call ahead of time to make sure that he had one that fit your description, and if you want one of the more popular models (e.g. H150), he probably will. Perhaps someone else on the forum could suggest another place, but Wolfe's is the only place that I know of that regularly stocks a lot of Heritages.

I have seriously considered both of these options, but never had the money to do either. One time while in Florida (for another reason), I did stop at Wolfe's and played a lot of different Heritages. There was so much variance in the necks -- some I loved and others I hated -- that I concluded I could never buy a Heritage guitar that I couldn't first hold in my hands and play. This presented a problem -- I live in a city of two million people, and there are no Heritage dealers, and there are certainly none nearby that have a large number on hand to try. So buying remotely via craigslist, ebay, etc, is the only convenient means of obtaining a used Heritage.

So, I have come to the following conclusions about trying to find a used Heritage with the thin neck that I like:

1) There are more Heritages available with medium or thick necks, than there are with thin necks. But you can find ones with thin necks if you have patience.

2) I will, and have, bought one without playing it first, but only after a lot of communication with the seller to determine that it has a thin neck. And only in scenarios where it can be returned if I don't like it when it arrives. Guitar Center is good for this. If you ask enough questions and phrase it correctly, you can get them to give you a good description of the neck, and you can return it if you don't like it. I make them compare it to thick neck guitars (e.g. PRS) and thin neck guitars (e.g. a modern standard strat) The prices at GC are a bit higher than you might find on ebay, for example, but it's worth not being stuck with an expensive guitar that doesn't have a neck you really like. Sometimes they price things unrealistically high, but if you wait long enough, many times the price will come down.

3) I think somewhere else on this forum it is stated that Heritage used to build thinner necks years ago, but now they build thicker ones (on average, that is), due to what is popular at the time. The guitars I have bear that out -- my 1988 has the thinnest neck, my 2002 next, and my 2004 is the thickest. I would consider them all thin, but there is a slight difference as they get newer. I imagine that you can find a variety of necks built in every year.

All these things probably come to bear no matter what your neck preference is.

It would be great to quantify and standardize the whole process. There are some websites that have some information, if you search for things like "gibson neck profile". The differences in the numbers between thin necks and thick necks is surprisingly small -- but as you know, the difference in feeling is large. I think the idea of measuring the amount of wood, as efflux said, is a good idea. I think that my how much wood you have to hold probably matters more than the exact shape, and is certainly more quantifiable. It would be interesting to see how the measurement corresponds to the subjective words that people use. That is, if you collected accurate measurements of the fretboard-to-fretboard semicircle circumference, and the words that people used to described them, you might have an idea how much thicker a "medium" neck was than a "60s style", etc.

It does make sense that the thickness of the neck would affect the tone, but this is another area, in my opinion, where there is a lot of subjectivity and we would all benefit if this could somehow be more accurately defined.

I've been pretty long-winded here, but I think it's paramount when looking for a Heritage guitar. I think the short answer to your question is that it varies from guitar to guitar, not model to model, and that perhaps older ones have thinner necks than newer ones, on average. And, each year they have been in business, Heritage has made guitars with necks that span the entire range.

Hope this helps if you've been able to stay awake long enough to read it.

March 26, 2013

I share your concern on the subject of neck shape / thickness when it comes to heritage guitars. To me, it is vitally important in how well I like a guitar, and it's always the first question I ask when considering a purchase. You can change most anything on a set neck electric guitar easily, except the wood it's made from and the neck. I think it's important most serious guitarists, regardless of their specific preference, yet it seems to be lacking in quantitative specification. We use terms like "chunky" and "60s style" -- but what do those really mean? I've even seen people say things like "it's not so much like a 59 neck, more like a 58". Not a very accurate way to describe something so important, especially given that most people have never held either one of those guitars. There are many Heritage guitars I've seen for sale on this forum, and elsewhere, that I pass on, because the neck is described as "medium" -- but maybe one person's "medium" is another's thick or thin, and I would like the neck after all.

I too have smaller hands / fingers, and must have a thin neck (with binding) to enjoy playing a guitar. I would conjecture that people with larger hands can tolerate more variance in necks because their hand can compensate more easily, but I don't really know. And surely some people with small hands like thick necks -- it's all up to the individual and many factors go into what type a neck a person might like best. I can only speak for what I like.

Having said all that, I've thought about this a lot, and here are some things I've concluded about finding a Heritage with a neck you like (although I still consider myself a novice and would like to hear other people's opinions on this):

Buying new:

This is the easy option, but you needs the bucks to be able to buy one new. If time and money are not an issue, take a guitar that has a neck you love to the Heritage shop, have them measure it up for you and have them make a guitar with a neck just like it.

If you don't want to wait as long as that would take, fly to Orlando (cheapest destination in Florida by far), rent a car and drive to Wolfe's guitars, where you could play a variety of Heritages and pick one that has a neck you like. I would call ahead of time to make sure that he had one that fit your description, and if you want one of the more popular models (e.g. H150), he probably will. Perhaps someone else on the forum could suggest another place, but Wolfe's is the only place that I know of that regularly stocks a lot of Heritages.

I have seriously considered both of these options, but never had the money to do either. One time while in Florida (for another reason), I did stop at Wolfe's and played a lot of different Heritages. There was so much variance in the necks -- some I loved and others I hated -- that I concluded I could never buy a Heritage guitar that I couldn't first hold in my hands and play. This presented a problem -- I live in a city of two million people, and there are no Heritage dealers, and there are certainly none nearby that have a large number on hand to try. So buying remotely via craigslist, ebay, etc, is the only convenient means of obtaining a used Heritage.

So, I have come to the following conclusions about trying to find a used Heritage with the thin neck that I like:

1) There are more Heritages available with medium or thick necks, than there are with thin necks. But you can find ones with thin necks if you have patience.

2) I will, and have, bought one without playing it first, but only after a lot of communication with the seller to determine that it has a thin neck. And only in scenarios where it can be returned if I don't like it when it arrives. Guitar Center is good for this. If you ask enough questions and phrase it correctly, you can get them to give you a good description of the neck, and you can return it if you don't like it. I make them compare it to thick neck guitars (e.g. PRS) and thin neck guitars (e.g. a modern standard strat) The prices at GC are a bit higher than you might find on ebay, for example, but it's worth not being stuck with an expensive guitar that doesn't have a neck you really like. Sometimes they price things unrealistically high, but if you wait long enough, many times the price will come down.

3) I think somewhere else on this forum it is stated that Heritage used to build thinner necks years ago, but now they build thicker ones (on average, that is), due to what is popular at the time. The guitars I have bear that out -- my 1988 has the thinnest neck, my 2002 next, and my 2004 is the thickest. I would consider them all thin, but there is a slight difference as they get newer. I imagine that you can find a variety of necks built in every year.

All these things probably come to bear no matter what your neck preference is.

It would be great to quantify and standardize the whole process. There are some websites that have some information, if you search for things like "gibson neck profile". The differences in the numbers between thin necks and thick necks is surprisingly small -- but as you know, the difference in feeling is large. I think the idea of measuring the amount of wood, as efflux said, is a good idea. I think that my how much wood you have to hold probably matters more than the exact shape, and is certainly more quantifiable. It would be interesting to see how the measurement corresponds to the subjective words that people use. That is, if you collected accurate measurements of the fretboard-to-fretboard semicircle circumference, and the words that people used to described them, you might have an idea how much thicker a "medium" neck was than a "60s style", etc.

It does make sense that the thickness of the neck would affect the tone, but this is another area, in my opinion, where there is a lot of subjectivity and we would all benefit if this could somehow be more accurately defined.

I've been pretty long-winded here, but I think it's paramount when looking for a Heritage guitar. I think the short answer to your question is that it varies from guitar to guitar, not model to model, and that perhaps older ones have thinner necks than newer ones, on average. And, each year they have been in business, Heritage has made guitars with necks that span the entire range.

Hope this helps if you've been able to stay awake long enough to read it.

Wow, well said! How long have you been a Heritage owner Mr. Go Steelers? I see you are a relative newby here. Welcome aboard. And btw, go Patriots!

koula901 · March 26, 2013

Like you, my favorite carve is a D shaped neck. I find that most of my heritage medium c-shaped necks are very comfortable.

goSteelers · March 26, 2013

Wow, well said! How long have you been a Heritage owner Mr. Go Steelers? I see you are a relative newby here. Welcome aboard. And btw, go Patriots!

Now don't start the Football Wars, 'cause then I would have to mention those SIX Lombardi's, which trump everything, and I wouldn't want to have to do that . . .

I picked up a Stat in the late 80s (which I don't count in the discussion about necks because it is such a different bird), but I only became serious about more Heritage guitars a few years ago. Since then, I've picked up an H170, H150 and an H555. Looking for an H575 (with binding on the neck, so that probably means a Custom) -- with a thin neck, of course. I've only been participating in some posts for a few months, I guess. My favorite neck (except for the fact that it doesn't have binding) is the one on my Musicman Van Halen model, which is thinner in both directions, than any Gibson / Heritage neck, and that's probably the one I would take to Kalamazoo should I ever do a custom order. Heritages are great guitars, and I hope they continue making them the same way for many years to come.

PrairieDude · March 26, 2013

I share your concern on the subject of neck shape / thickness when it comes to heritage guitars. To me, it is vitally important in how well I like a guitar, and it's always the first question I ask when considering a purchase. You can change most anything on a set neck electric guitar easily, except the wood it's made from and the neck. I think it's important most serious guitarists, regardless of their specific preference, yet it seems to be lacking in quantitative specification. We use terms like "chunky" and "60s style" -- but what do those really mean? I've even seen people say things like "it's not so much like a 59 neck, more like a 58". Not a very accurate way to describe something so important, especially given that most people have never held either one of those guitars. There are many Heritage guitars I've seen for sale on this forum, and elsewhere, that I pass on, because the neck is described as "medium" -- but maybe one person's "medium" is another's thick or thin, and I would like the neck after all.

I too have smaller hands / fingers, and must have a thin neck (with binding) to enjoy playing a guitar. I would conjecture that people with larger hands can tolerate more variance in necks because their hand can compensate more easily, but I don't really know. And surely some people with small hands like thick necks -- it's all up to the individual and many factors go into what type a neck a person might like best. I can only speak for what I like.

Having said all that, I've thought about this a lot, and here are some things I've concluded about finding a Heritage with a neck you like (although I still consider myself a novice and would like to hear other people's opinions on this):

Buying new:

This is the easy option, but you needs the bucks to be able to buy one new. If time and money are not an issue, take a guitar that has a neck you love to the Heritage shop, have them measure it up for you and have them make a guitar with a neck just like it.

If you don't want to wait as long as that would take, fly to Orlando (cheapest destination in Florida by far), rent a car and drive to Wolfe's guitars, where you could play a variety of Heritages and pick one that has a neck you like. I would call ahead of time to make sure that he had one that fit your description, and if you want one of the more popular models (e.g. H150), he probably will. Perhaps someone else on the forum could suggest another place, but Wolfe's is the only place that I know of that regularly stocks a lot of Heritages.

I have seriously considered both of these options, but never had the money to do either. One time while in Florida (for another reason), I did stop at Wolfe's and played a lot of different Heritages. There was so much variance in the necks -- some I loved and others I hated -- that I concluded I could never buy a Heritage guitar that I couldn't first hold in my hands and play. This presented a problem -- I live in a city of two million people, and there are no Heritage dealers, and there are certainly none nearby that have a large number on hand to try. So buying remotely via craigslist, ebay, etc, is the only convenient means of obtaining a used Heritage.

So, I have come to the following conclusions about trying to find a used Heritage with the thin neck that I like:

1) There are more Heritages available with medium or thick necks, than there are with thin necks. But you can find ones with thin necks if you have patience.

2) I will, and have, bought one without playing it first, but only after a lot of communication with the seller to determine that it has a thin neck. And only in scenarios where it can be returned if I don't like it when it arrives. Guitar Center is good for this. If you ask enough questions and phrase it correctly, you can get them to give you a good description of the neck, and you can return it if you don't like it. I make them compare it to thick neck guitars (e.g. PRS) and thin neck guitars (e.g. a modern standard strat) The prices at GC are a bit higher than you might find on ebay, for example, but it's worth not being stuck with an expensive guitar that doesn't have a neck you really like. Sometimes they price things unrealistically high, but if you wait long enough, many times the price will come down.

3) I think somewhere else on this forum it is stated that Heritage used to build thinner necks years ago, but now they build thicker ones (on average, that is), due to what is popular at the time. The guitars I have bear that out -- my 1988 has the thinnest neck, my 2002 next, and my 2004 is the thickest. I would consider them all thin, but there is a slight difference as they get newer. I imagine that you can find a variety of necks built in every year.

All these things probably come to bear no matter what your neck preference is.

It would be great to quantify and standardize the whole process. There are some websites that have some information, if you search for things like "gibson neck profile". The differences in the numbers between thin necks and thick necks is surprisingly small -- but as you know, the difference in feeling is large. I think the idea of measuring the amount of wood, as efflux said, is a good idea. I think that my how much wood you have to hold probably matters more than the exact shape, and is certainly more quantifiable. It would be interesting to see how the measurement corresponds to the subjective words that people use. That is, if you collected accurate measurements of the fretboard-to-fretboard semicircle circumference, and the words that people used to described them, you might have an idea how much thicker a "medium" neck was than a "60s style", etc.

It does make sense that the thickness of the neck would affect the tone, but this is another area, in my opinion, where there is a lot of subjectivity and we would all benefit if this could somehow be more accurately defined.

I've been pretty long-winded here, but I think it's paramount when looking for a Heritage guitar. I think the short answer to your question is that it varies from guitar to guitar, not model to model, and that perhaps older ones have thinner necks than newer ones, on average. And, each year they have been in business, Heritage has made guitars with necks that span the entire range.

Hope this helps if you've been able to stay awake long enough to read it.

Thanks for this. I did stay long enough to read it all!! I really think I would like to own one of these guitars one day, but they're not cheap, and buying one without playing it is always a gamble. I have bought a couple of guitars that way, and the results so far have turned out pretty good, but the stakes weren't as high.

It would be nice if there were a way to quantify something that is so subjective.

Thanks for your input.

PrairieDude · March 26, 2013

Like you, my favorite carve is a D shaped neck. I find that most of my heritage medium c-shaped necks are very comfortable.

Hey koula901, I'm glad to hear you like the medium C shaped necks. I might, too. They not be that much different from my acoustic guitar. Or my present electric. If you measure them they way efflux did, is there much difference between the D carve you like and the C shaped Heritages?

koula901 · March 26, 2013

Hey koula901, I'm glad to hear you like the medium C shaped necks. I might, too. They not be that much different from my acoustic guitar. Or my present electric. If you measure them they way efflux did, is there much difference between the D carve you like and the C shaped Heritages?

I'm sorry, PrairieDude, I don't have calipers, or else I would measure them. All I can tell you is that heritage was making them 1960s slim C shaped necks for awhile, but in the past few years changed and made the necks more of a medium-C shaped neck, and I do well with them. My guess is you probably need a little bit of shoulder on the neck - especially if your a thumb-in-the middle of the back of the neck type of player, as opposed to a thumb over the top player.

What you could do, is go to a guitar store, find necks you like, and have their tech measure them for you.

There's always a little risk involved, unless you custom order - then, you can send them the measurements you'd like. I would tell them the depth at 1st, 5th, and 12th frets, and they will work to accommodate.

smurph1 · March 26, 2013

I have large hands and long fingers, and believe it or not I prefer skinny to medium necks..Not sure why really..They just feel right..I sold my 535 because I just couldn't bond with the baseball bat neck..My 2 cents..My 137 has a great feeling medium neck!!

rockabilly69 · March 26, 2013

I'm with ya Smurph, I don't like baseball bat necks either. I just can't play smoothly on them. I had to sell one of the best sounding Les Paul Goldtop R7s because I couldn't get used to the fat neck! I like the current Heritage med C neck, as long as I setup the the guitar for close playing action. It's been noted here that Marv carves a slight radius towards the treble side of the back of the neck which adds a little beef to that area. That took me a bit to get used to but I like it now.

efflux · March 26, 2013

One problem is if you have several guitars all with different neck profiles. I can get used to most shapes and I can play my Les Paul with the thicker neck but when I go from that to my Tele with thin neck, it feels funny.

Also, a lot of descriptions on the net don't mean much. A thick neck to someone might not be that thick to someone else. The best way is the circumference measurement and a general description of shape i.e. D or C etc.

I move my hands around in various ways but when I have my thumb more towards the edge and not at the back, I find the big shoulder necks to be not as confortable.

High Flying Bird · March 27, 2013

If you plan on a custom order you call tell Marv exactly how you want it in plain English. I still don't understand the D or C shape thing.

PrairieDude · March 27, 2013

I expect I'll find a guitar that suits me. I'm just going to have to be patient and ask a lot of questions.

Thank you all for your input and advice.

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