drewzee87t Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Hi All, I have only dealt with Heritage one time in the past to order a tuna/stop tail for my millie. That experience was perfectly happy. I recently had a not so happy customer contact with Heritage and have been sitting on it for a couple weeks letting it brew. Let me know your thoughts on this. I am not sure what to do, but let's say I am not super happy. Background: My 2000 Millenium Special Edition was purchased and came with a Heritage "lightweight" hardshell case. This is a canvas covered case with hard sides underneath. It is pretty much as sturdy as a hard case but is very light. It has a big huge Heritage logo on it, in the Heritage logo font. I have never seen another of these cases and cannot find who manufactured it. Fast forward to 2013. The millie has been in its case for about a year and I have been playing other guitars. I pull it out of the case and decide to play it for a while. I notice that a portion of the back of the neck has "crinkles" in the nitro finish. I scratch my head. I wipe it, I polish it, I clean it. The nitro has reacted to something. I put the guitar in the case and the neck support for the case aligns exactly with the damaged finish area. The guitar has reacted with the case. WTH! I send an email to heritage asking if any customers have had problems with these cases, could they fix the guitar, and could they find me a better case for it. (Willing to pay for case, and even repair). I get back one line email: we do not ship in a Canvas gig bag No Hi, sorry we do not ship in a canvas gig bag. Can you contact us to discuss further? We can repair it but we may need to charge you. We can certainly recommend a case. Nope. No salutation, no punctuation, no signature, no name. I am kind of pissed off and my immediate reaction was to send them pictures of the canvas covered hard shell case and the guitar with a F U to boot, but I decided to let it digest. What do you think is reasonable for my expectations here? I want to follow up on this but I don't want to be an ass. At the same time, I will never deal with heritage again if they treat customers this way. I am just pissed off that they won't even say "it's your own damn fault but we will fix it and charge you, and ship it back in a proper case and charge you" . I would expect that at a MINIMUM. OK what say you.
JeffB Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Can we have pics of the case? Ive never seen one like you describe.
drewzee87t Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 Pics would help.... Case outside and inside. Guitar in case. I can't get a good photo of the finish on the back of neck. The damage finish is between 2nd and 13th fret exactly where the neck rests on the support in the case.
big bob Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 All the 2000 Millie's came with cases like that. I had one that rich has now. I never had a problem with it. As for the email sounds like classic Ren Wall, short and sweet. I can't imagine he'd was intentionally being rude. I think if the guitar has lived in the case for 12 years w/ o problem the culprit is probably something other than the case. What type of cleaner do you use?
drewzee87t Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 I have been using Smith pro formula on all my guitars for the last twenty years and never had a problem with any of them. The damage is limited to where the neck was in contact with the case. I think the foam under the neck support is gassing out after twelve years. Foam is kind of unpredictable with age. Glad to find someone that has seen another of these wonky cases.
kidsmoke Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 first off, you've got a high end guitar that you invested in and cared for. I get that you're disappointed in what's happened ...my .02...and mind you, all we can do is speculate. I've met the "crew" been to the plant, and have my own sense of how/who they are.... While I won't say endorse the response as "good customer service/communication skills" I don't think you should assume any sort of disrespect or lack of concern / indifference on their part. The guys in the shop, even the masters, are shop guys, and have no inclination to be at the PC. They're wired to address what's in front of them, whether it's on a bench or on two legs. It's just an "old school" paradigm which some may find refreshing or quaint, and others may find it disrespectful or worse. I speculate that what you got was a "just the facts ma'am" sort of response from a bench guy begrudgingly responding to emails, and furthermore, emails from folks with problems. They read your message, made a determination that they were not responsible, in a black/white legal context (not our case, bummer, can't help him with it), sent a line to inform you as such and went about their day. Not an excuse...certainly it would be better on some levels if they had an articulate, charming and informed person who's responsibility is to address issues like yours in a timely and engaging manner. But they simply don't have that position in the org chart at this time, and most of us are willing to take the good with the bad. They build great guitars at a good price. I affirm that the response leaves much to be desired in a modern e commerce world. But you bought a Heritage. I'd boil all my drivel down to this....what you're speaking to is more about a culture clash than lack of integrity. Try to consider that and meet them halfway.
mars_hall Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 So was the case or guitar ever sprayed or did it ever come in contact with any reactive agent, such as an odor killer, alcohol, fabric softener, or water etc? You believe the case to be the source of contaminant, and it may have been, but the solvent could also have been introduced externally before the guitar was stored. The points of contact of the guitar to the case would serve to preserve a reacting agent. Where was the case stored?
Gitfiddler Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Has the guitar case been subjected to any extreme temps or humidity?
drewzee87t Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 Without my chemical engineering degree, I cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that no source of contamination exists. I don't piss on my guitars, don't spill alcohol on them (I don't even drink) and I tend to be more than a bit anal about how I take care of them. I keep the guitars in cases except a couple that are being played at any one time. All the cases are kept in a closet. The closet is decontaminated professionally by an EPA certified decontamination contractor on a yearly basis. The humidity is controlled and temperature is controlled. There is a 24 hour security detail, full time video surveillance and a three step locking mechanism with timer in order to open the closet.
chico Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 All the 2000 Millie's came with cases like that. I had one that rich has now. I never had a problem with it. As for the email sounds like classic Ren Wall, short and sweet. I can't imagine he'd was intentionally being rude. I think if the guitar has lived in the case for 12 years w/ o problem the culprit is probably something other than the case. What type of cleaner do you use? well, not all, my 00 H155 was in the standard Heritage hardshell case when I bought it (used).
GuitArtMan Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 All the 2000 Millie's came with cases like that. I had one that rich has now. I never had a problem with it. As for the email sounds like classic Ren Wall, short and sweet. I can't imagine he'd was intentionally being rude. I think if the guitar has lived in the case for 12 years w/ o problem the culprit is probably something other than the case. What type of cleaner do you use? My custom order millie 2K - ordered in 2000 - came in a standard hardshell case. Could this be some sort of case that Lasar music used without the boys in Kalamazoo's knowledge? - they used to handle marketing for Heritage, remember? Or maybe a certain dealer had these cases made up Ed Roman used to sell Heritage's in OHCSs that weren't OHSCs.
Thundersteel Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I, too, have dealt with the infamous one-line email responses, and know exactly how you feel. Kidsmoke is correct--the employees are builders, not techies. They seem to respond better with a telephone call--why don't you give that a try?
MartyGrass Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I am familiar with the style of case you have. My 2000 Millie came in this case. That gives a total of three different styles of cases Heritage used for these instruments. Ren almost certainly responded to your email. He gets dozens a day and is quite brief. His phone calls can be similar. He treats me the same way and I've known him for a few years now. I find it much more helpful to talk in person. That won't be practical for you, I know. The best customer support you are going to get is the HOC. I can't say it any plainer than that. I have seen nitro react to pressure points in cases before when there is prolonged storage. Your problem sounds like crazing though. Pix would help. If the changes in the finish bother you, wet sanding and reapplication of clear coat may fix it.
hinesarchtop Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 If it has only reacted in the area of contact you're probably right in that it's gassed off causing the finish problem. I would not be overly concerned about the short email as that's what is fairly standard for them. Just call early in the morning and explain in detail. They are usually good about problems. In fact, they stood behind me with a huge problem with an Ed Roman order and made it more than right. They also may have not understood what type of case you were describing. Best of luck.
2bornot2bop Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I've called Heritage but once, and after all the noise about how tough it is to get them on the phone to my surprise after 3 rings someone answered the phone...caught me off guard...Uhhh, hello
chico Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 not only is this the Heritage custom order phone, but most likely the complaint dept. phone too.. (just having some lighthearted fun w/your issue, hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction. I know I'd freak if that happened to mine! keep us posted..skydog photo BTW)
Guest HRB853370 Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I, too, have dealt with the infamous one-line email responses, and know exactly how you feel. Kidsmoke is correct--the employees are builders, not techies. They seem to respond better with a telephone call--why don't you give that a try? +1. They dont have a marketing dept. They dont have customer service representatives. They are a 12+ person shop and the owners wear every hat. That said, a phone call is your best bet! Ask for Ren Wall.
Millennium Maestro Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I have had the exact same case and with the exact same guitar and although I never put my guitar into hibernation I had the same results to the finish on the backside of the instrument and your description makes yours situation sound more extreme I resolved my issue personally by hand polishing the backside instrument.... I do not believe it to be a burn into the finish as mine was not burnt into the finish, more of a residue left adhered to the finish and recommend you trying to hand buff out the residue first. - I also fit a T-shirt into the case as a buffer between case materials and the guitar and it never happened again. I live in Vegas and everytime I call my questions get answered, I also am NOT a fan of the zip up soft/hard case. I WANT TO SEE PICTURES OF BOTH YOUR GUITAR AND THE EFFECTED AREA OF THE GUITAR!
Millennium Maestro Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Oh yeah, The type case was used only for a short period till they started shipping in TKL cases
drewzee87t Posted March 25, 2013 Author Posted March 25, 2013 I will try to get pictures. It is almost impossible to photo. It looks basically like someone took a spray paint can of nitro to the back of the neck and then didn't sand it down and polish it. It was perfect before I put it to bed. Interesting that you had similar problem. It might be awhile before I can get any photo as I am about to go out of town for a couple weeks. PS thanks everyone for your responses. I am sure it's a piddly repair that a local could do for probably 50 bucks but I don't want it to happen again, and I think it is the case that is the problem....the H response really kind of upset me....
Blunote Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Anybody would be unhappy with that reply. If I called a mechanic or body shop about a problem with a repair and got a one line blow off I be unhappy regardless of how socially adept the person was. I'm left curios about who made the case and what makes it react with the guitar. I've got a case that similar to it that I use with my 0M shaped acoustic. This guitar has a polyester finish but still, it would be good to know for future reference.
TalismanRich Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I'm guessing if you have the 2000 LE then you have a guitar case that looks like this.... I've had no ill effects on the back of my guitar, and I've had it since 2009. Here's a shot of the back and you can see the shine on the neck. I probably should mention that my guitar never stays in the case longer than about 2 weeks. Then it gets pulled into rotation, even if only for a day or two. I would suggest you call them directly. It may be something that can easily be polished and buffed to restore the original lustre.
brentrocks Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I'm guessing if you have the 2000 LE then you have a guitar case that looks like this.... I've had no ill effects on the back of my guitar, and I've had it since 2009. Here's a shot of the back and you can see the shine on the neck. I probably should mention that my guitar never stays in the case longer than about 2 weeks. Then it gets pulled into rotation, even if only for a day or two. I would suggest you call them directly. It may be something that can easily be polished and buffed to restore the original lustre. you wanna sell that back to me Rich?
TalismanRich Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 you wanna sell that back to me Rich? What, so you can sell it to back to ME in another 2 months? How about I let you play it in August. I've already told Lyle he has visitation rights to the 525! Sorry, you can buy it off my kids... after they stick me in the pine box (or maybe a canvas case).
Blunote Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Brent, you're supposed to be on the wagon, aren't you?
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