First heritage and need some advice

[yuominae]

Hi all,

 

First post here as I finally acquired a Heritage H535. I was thinking of taking the plunge for a 335 for years, but then I found out about Heritage and am now the proud owner of a 2001 535.

 

I absolutely love it. But I have a few issues with it as well... and am wondering what I should do or whether I should worry about it.

 

First off, the... let's say "cunning" seller, only showed a blurry picture of the back of the guitar and so I found out that it has a lost a fair amount of finish of the lower side of the neck. The guitar was a bit dirty when I got it, so I tried giving it a bit of a clean with lighter fluid (like a lot of guitar players seem to do), and it took off some more of the finish. I never had that happen before... Is the finish really soft on Heritage guitars?

 

It's also got a big patch in the middle of the neck left by a stand grip - stand burn, I guess? I've seen a few 535s which seem to have that. I'm guessing that rubber pads are not a good idea?

 

And then my main concern. I've just changed strings and am getting lots of fret buzz, but only up to the fifth fret and mostly on the A, D and G strings.

I sorta know how to set the string height properly, so the bridge is not the problem. The neck look straight, but I'm never sure whether or not I can actually tell properly or not...

Could somebody with more experience help me diagnose what's wrong with it?

 

In spite of all that, I am so impressed with how good this guitar sounds that I'm seriously considering selling it, as well as one of my other guitars and splashing out for a brand (or nearly, depending on how much I can get together) new 535. They're really awesome.

 

[SouthpawGuy]

Hi and welcome to the HOC.

 

Sounds like your guitar seeds a set up or at least a truss rod adjustment. Several of my own guitars need the truss rod tweaked twice a year, once in autumn, September - October and again in spring, March - April.

[Guest HRB853370]

Was this an Ebay purchase? If so you should complain to Ebay that the cunning seller misrepresented his product. You may have a good reason to return it, considering all the issues you were not aware of.

[Guest HRB853370]

Hi and welcome to the HOC.

 

Sounds like your guitar seeds a set up or at least a truss rod adjustment. Several of my own guitars need the truss rod tweaked twice a year, once in autumn, September - October and again in spring, March - April.

Ahh, the cons of living in Ireland...

 

No such issues in America! Unless you move back and forth from the East Coast to the Left Coast frequently.

[DetroitBlues]

Pics go a long way with us. As far as the buzzing goes, when you changed the strings, are you sure you didn't adjust the bridge accidentally? They can move up or down quite easily. Also, if you changed to a lighter string gauge, that might cause a problem too. For $40 to $60, a decent luthier should be able to set it up, double check the fret heights and any other issues you might be having on the guitar.

[yuominae]

Wow, fast replies, nice!

 

Southpaw, yeah, I got the feeling I might have to take it to the local guitar shop this week-end and have somebody look at it, but I was hoping that it might be something small that I could fix myself.

 

Slammer, unfortunately I live in Japan, and there's no ebay here, only yahoo auctions, which sucks in comparison (and still takes 5% for that). Got burned three times on there, so I thought I'd be on the safe side and buy from a shop (online) this time, but found out that they're just as bad, and more expensive to boot. And the return policy is if something is majorly wrong and only within three days.

 

The thing is I really like this guitar. I'm just thinking that if there's something wrong with it I might cut my losses, sell it for whatever I can get, sell my G&L Skyhawk and try to get a 535 from the US or Europe instead - gosh a new one would be nice if I could afford one...

[yuominae]

Pics go a long way with us. As far as the buzzing goes, when you changed the strings, are you sure you didn't adjust the bridge accidentally? They can move up or down quite easily. Also, if you changed to a lighter string gauge, that might cause a problem too. For $40 to $60, a decent luthier should be able to set it up, double check the fret heights and any other issues you might be having on the guitar.

 

I did actually change string gauge and adjusted the bridge a tad. I always change the bridge to try to get a good compromise between string height and buzz, but I'm already at about 3mm at the 12th fret and higher I find it hard to play, below that there is some major buzzing going on at the low frets.

 

Well, I guess I'll have to take it to the local guitar shop this week-end and ask their opinion. Maybe it needs a nut change as well.

 

It's past midnight now, so I'll get photos of the finish on the neck tomorrow and hopefully you guys can tell me if that's typical wear for a 10+ year old Heritage or not

[pegleg32]

Did you really use lighter fluid on it? I don't think I would do that. Heritage uses a nitro finish and I would think lighter fluid would dissolve that in a hurry. I wish someone who knows the actual facts would jump in on this lighter fluid method? That scares me.

[pegleg32]

I did actually change string gauge and adjusted the bridge a tad. I always change the bridge to try to get a good compromise between string height and buzz, but I'm already at about 3mm at the 12th fret and higher I find it hard to play, below that there is some major buzzing going on at the low frets.

 

Buzzing at the lower frets, while the action is too high farther up the neck would seem to indicate a problem with the nut. Perhaps the groove is a bit too deep on one or two strings? Or maybe all of them.

[FredZepp]

Did you really use lighter fluid on it? I don't think I would do that. Heritage uses a nitro finish and I would think lighter fluid would dissolve that in a hurry. I wish someone who knows the actual facts would jump in on this lighter fluid method? That scares me.

Naphtha ( lighter fluid) is widely used as a cleaner for nitro guitars.... when the finish is gritty or a neck is sticky. It evaporates quickly.

 

It's not an everyday cleaner... but is safe for cleaning nitro finishes .

[pegleg32]

Naphtha ( lighter fluid) is widely used as a cleaner for nitro guitars.... when the finish is gritty or a neck is sticky. It evaporates quickly.

 

It's not an everyday cleaner... but is safe for cleaning nitro finishes .

Whew, thanks Fred, I wasn't aware of that!!!!!!

[TalismanRich]

The marks on the neck is probably from sitting on a stand with vinyl rubber. PVC will react with the nitrocellulose lacquer used on Heritage guitars. Many other guitars use nitrocel lacquer, so its not something that is unique to Heritage. Other guitars such as many Fender, Ibanez, Taylor, etc will use either a polyester or a catalyzed finish which is not affected by rubber.

 

There are stands that are safe for nitrocel finishes.

 

Lighter fluid should be safe. Do NOT use any alcohol or ketone based solvent unless you want to remove the finish from the guitar. Acetone, isopropyl alcohol etc will dissolve the nitrocel finish.

[yuominae]

On the lighter fluid, I never had any problems with it for cleaning Gibsons before and because they usually have a nitro finish I thought it'd be safe to use on the 535 as well...

But the rag I was using was starting to get brown as I was rubbing the neck. I thought it was removing lots of gunk, but when I rubbed the binding I saw it take off a bit of the finish.

 

I was wondering if it would do that to older finished maybe (didn't do it to my 1980 Gibson firebrand though...)? Or if the finish didn't properly cure?

[yuominae]

Here are photos of the finish on the neck and the nut. It's probably quite difficult to see much because the wood is brown and the finish is, well, brown as well, but if you guys can give me your opinion I'd much appreciate it.

 

 

[PunkKitty]

That nut looks worn to me. It may be due for replacement. I'd also consider getting the frets dressed and leveled when you have it set up. It will cost a bit more. But those are the risks of buying a used guitar. I usually build those costs into the purchase price when I'm looking at used gear.

 

I don't know much about finishes so I really can't comment on that.

[yoslate]

Naphtha ( lighter fluid) is widely used as a cleaner for nitro guitars.... when the finish is gritty or a neck is sticky. It evaporates quickly.

 

It's not an everyday cleaner... but is safe for cleaning nitro finishes .

 

Bingo, as usual, Fred. We use naptha around the shop all of the time. No problem on nitro.

Here are photos of the finish on the neck and the nut. It's probably quite difficult to see much because the wood is brown and the finish is, well, brown as well, but if you guys can give me your opinion I'd much appreciate it.DSC00886.JPGDSC00887.JPGDSC00889.JPG

The notches on the A, D, and G do look a little deep, poorly cut. New nut, an appropriately set truss rod and a bridge tweeze should set you free. Have a good luthier take care of you.

[bolero]

If it only buzzes on open strings its the nut

 

If it buzzes on the lower frets it either needs a truss adjustment or a fret dress imo

[tonedeaf]

On the lighter fluid, I never had any problems with it for cleaning Gibsons before and because they usually have a nitro finish I thought it'd be safe to use on the 535 as well...

But the rag I was using was starting to get brown as I was rubbing the neck. I thought it was removing lots of gunk, but when I rubbed the binding I saw it take off a bit of the finish.

 

I was wondering if it would do that to older finished maybe (didn't do it to my 1980 Gibson firebrand though...)? Or if the finish didn't properly cure?

 

It is possible that this finish had already deteriorated or was well worn and the solvent simply took off finish that was already gone anyway.

[mark555]

I have an immaculate 555, last year I had a new nut installed because of honest wear and tear, so that might be some aspect of it. When ever I put the guitar on a stand all rubber on the stand is covered by a duster to protect the nitro.

 

Like Paul (Southpaw Guy) I always have the truss rod adjusted on my two set neck guitars, strangely enough, the only one that doesn't need an adjustment is my strat.

 

I would take the guitar to a good tech and let him inspect it and see what he can do, you might find you have a real gem.

[yuominae]

Thanks for all the awesome replies guys!

 

So, there's no reason to not use lighter fluid to clean my guitars and that's good news! I'll probably give it another try on a small patch of the guitar and see what happens, just to be on the safe side, but very relieved to hear that others are using lighter fluid too.

 

And then yeah, I'll take the 535 along tomorrow when I go get my Firebrand back from the shop. If a new nut and a setup is all that's needed then that's great news! Hopefully I'll get the neck pickup identified as well, because it sounds so sweet it makes the Seymour Duncan in the bridge sound like a piece of junk.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I'll hopefully be able to report some happy news here to close this off!

[pressure]

I don't know how dirty your guitar is but I would not use any solvent on a musical instrument.

I usually use Virtuoso Premium Polish, I don't know what is in it but it works very well.

 

http://www.virtuosopolish.com/

[GuitArtMan]

Ok I'll join in here.

First - welcome to the wonderful world of Heritage Guitars and the Heritage Owners Club.

Second - lighter fluid is fine and should not damage the finish. Something else is going on here.

Third - The only way to get rid of stand burn (why do they continue to use material that interacts with nitrocellulose lacquer?) is to refinish the affected area.

Fourth - 3mm and you are still getting fret buzzes?!?!? Eeek! That's Gypsy jazz guitar action. If it is only buzzing off of the lower frets as you state then the neck is too straight and you need to add a little relief. I would loosen the truss rod 1/8 of a turn and see if that fixes it. If not, maybe one more 1/8 turn. If that doesn't do it, find a good tech and have them look at it. Remember lefty loosey righty tighty.

Did you switch to a lighter string gauge? If so, that makes sense and the strings would not be pulling as hard and so the truss rod would straighten the neck out more and cause buzzing off of the nut and/or lower frets.

[yuominae]

Well, following your advice I tool the guitar to the guitar shop today and there's good news!

and then there's bad news...

 

Good news is that after loosening the truss rod my guitar is now completely buzz free.

 

The bad news is that the truss rod is now fully loosened!

When I bought the guitar I asked about the rod and was told there was play left. And the very sad thing is that the seller didn't technically lie, but damn this was the last time I bought a used guitar in Japan!

 

So, my question now is... Fully loosened truss rod, what are the implications of that? Do I basically have a piece of junk on my hands now? Is there a way this can be salvaged?

 

My first instinct would be to list it on Yahoo auctions as junk, get whatever I can back from this, sell my G&L and hope I'll now have enough to buy a 535 from the US (and quick before the yen devaluates even further...).

Can anybody see any other course of action?

[LucSulla]

Some of the neck wear could be just from being played. I have similar wear on a couple of mine that really shows up when I clean it up.

As far as the truss rod, if it is backed all the way out and you need to add more relief, that would obviously be a problem. I suppose there is always the option of putting heavier strings on that will add more pull on the neck, possibly more relief, and then allow you to tighten the screw a bit. There are a lot of "interesting" ideas about how to make a dead straight neck with a completely loose truss rod give up some more relief on the net, but there are people that know a whole lot more than me here that can tell you how to do it (if possible) without hurting anything.

 

Then there is always just rolling the dice that it will stay the way you like it now. If you dig the look and the sound as well, it might be worth it.

[GuitArtMan]

No problem unless the truss rod itself is rattling inside the neck. If so, tighten it just enough that the slack is out of it and it doesn't rattle but not so much as it tries to pull the neck straight. The truss rod is there to counteract the pull of the strings, in your case it sounds like the neck doesn't need it. Now if it gets to the point where loosening the truss rod doesn't add enough relief and/or you get a back bow that becomes a trickier solution. If that happens I've heard of some people putting heavy strings on and tuning up to F to pull the neck straight.