First heritage and need some advice

[yuominae]

No problem unless the truss rod itself is rattling inside the neck. If so, tighten it just enough that the slack is out of it and it doesn't rattle but not so much as it tries to pull the neck straight. The truss rod is there to counteract the pull of the strings, in your case it sounds like the neck doesn't need it. Now if it gets to the point where loosening the truss rod doesn't add enough relief and/or you get a back bow that becomes a trickier solution. If that happens I've heard of some people putting heavy strings on and tuning up to F to pull the neck straight.

 

Hmmm, thanks for the advice. Although that does sound a bit like trying to flog a dead horse

 

The guitar tech in the shop suggested getting some really heavy strings, tightening them right up and setting the bridge higher. Then loet it sit for a couple of months to try to get the neck to bow inwards and tighten the rod back up.

 

I do like this guitar and really wanted to make it work, but... I don't want to have to worry about whether or not it will still be playable six months from now.

And I also spent all the spare cash I had to get it...

I guess I'll see what I can get for it on the market (this is Japan, maybe I'll fare better than I would in the US). If I can scrape enough together to get a used one in good condition then that would be my preferred option...

 

Damn I'm disappointed about how this turned out.

[Blunote]

I can't see you ever needing to take relief out by cranking down a truss nut. and if you do, you have plenty of adjustment in that regard. At present, the neck is straight, or adequately relieved right now. If anything, Summer's warmer temperatures and higher humidity will cause the wood to swell against the rod and back bow a bit only if the wood compresses against the truss rod nuts -which would create tension that could be relieved.

 

The older pre-war guitars never had truss rods, and are still being played. Yours is probably just fine.

[yuominae]

I can't see you ever needing to take relief out by cranking down a truss nut. and if you do, you have plenty of adjustment in that regard. At present, the neck is straight, or adequately relieved right now. If anything, Summer's warmer temperatures and higher humidity will cause the wood to swell against the rod and back bow a bit only if the wood compresses against the truss rod nuts -which would create tension that could be relieved.

 

The older pre-war guitars never had truss rods, and are still being played. Yours is probably just fine.

 

That is a good point about the prewar guitars. Makes me wonder hoe they adjusted their guitars then?

But... If such a small adjustment like the one I got done today made all the diiference between loads of buzz and no buzz at all, I'm thinking the truss rod is pretty important on the guitar I got. Plus, the truss rod's fully loosened now, so the neck has moved a considerable amount already. Likelihood it will move the wrong direction looks high to me.

 

It's probably just psychological, but whether it's fine or not, the thought's in my head and I can't get it out again. Every time I pick it up now I'm wondering whether it will buzz again or not

[bolero]

I have a couple guitars with no tension on the truss rod...if it plays fine don't worry about it!!

 

I think you are overreacting a bit....unless I am misunderstanding?? you loosened the truss rod and the buzz is gone? that is how they are supposed to work

[yuominae]

I have a couple guitars with no tension on the truss rod...if it plays fine don't worry about it!!

 

I think you are overreacting a bit....unless I am misunderstanding?? you loosened the truss rod and the buzz is gone? that is how they are supposed to work

 

After getting so many comments saying it's not a big deal I am starting to think that maybe I am overreacting...

 

I always thought that a guitar that has a fully tightened/fully loosened truss rod, it means two things.

 

- The neck has moved a lot in the past and there is no guarantee that it won't still do so in future.

- Any further continued movement of the neck can not be compensated for by the truss rod anymore.

 

The other reason I am getting stressed is that in Japan at least any guitar in that state is considered junk... I'm also pretty upset about the fact that the seller, whilst he didn't exactly lie, didn't tell me the truth either when I asked him about the wear and the state of the neck of the guitar.

[Blunote]

With heavier strings it may be that the guitar was able to be relieved further by loosening the truss rod. There would have been more string tension pulling the neck forward.

 

With the truss rod loose, the only force on the neck is going to be from the strings-pulling it forward. It's hard to believe that neck will bow backwards from where it's at without there being some compression on neck by the truss rod.

 

Maybe the thing to do is to take the strings off, fully loosen the truss rod and lay a straight edge along the frets to see if any back bow exists when the neck is completely un-stressed. If it's straight, then I wouldn't worry. If it's significantly back-bowed, then I might get a little nervous. But still, I don't think you'll see it back-bow with the stress of fully tuned strings on it.

[yuominae]

Oh, I see. I'll check out the neck then.

I think you've managed to make me feel a bit positive about this, thanks Blunote!

[bolero]

couple questions: what gauge strings did you put on, and what were the ones you took off?

 

if it had heavier strings when you got it, the neck would be pulled back by the truss rod because there is less force pulling the neck forward by the lighter strings

 

= a high chance of buzzing strings on the lower frets

 

if you're happy with the action now & it plays fine it probably is...but it's hard to diagnose over the internet so I'm not trying to say you don't have a problem...it just doesn't sound like it, to me

 

ps a truss rod that cannot be tightened any further can easily be fixed by adding a washer, so no I wouldn't say the neck is "junk" in either of those scenarios

 

like I said I have at least 2 guitars with minimal pressure on the truss rods ( the nuts are just finger tight ) and they've been fine for years

 

 

if you are truly concerned, get a second opinion form another respected luthier

[yuominae]

couple questions: what gauge strings did you put on, and what were the ones you took off?

 

RIght now I have some Ernie Ball slinkies on there. Number 9s. I usually use hybrid slinkies, but on a whim I picked up a pack of 9s and slapped those on.

I have no idea what strings were on the guitar when it came, they were those with the colour-coded ends which I really can't stand, but they didn't feel particularly heavy compared the the hybrid slinkies I'm used to, so I'd say they were 10s...

 

Could it make that much of a difference?

Is there something like a "recommended" string gauge for 535s?

[Cajun]

I have had over 70 guitars (I trade them frequently). Over the years I have found that a good luthier can make the difference on any guitar - right now I use a really talented guy who has been building and fixing guitars for 30 years +. His set ups take an otherwise mediocre guitar and make it feel and play like a professional model. That being said - I have also paid many so called "luthiers" that did not know what they were doing - and the results were terrible. Would search for someone that has been doing it for awhile and has solid references. I try to find someone who works from their own shop - so I don't have to pay a 50% markup to the music store. I have a 535 - they are wonderful and sound fantastic if loaded with the right pickups (PAF sound best in my humble opinion). When I got mine - it had a Duncan JB which was not the right pickup at all for it. Hopefully yours has the Schallers or even better the Seth Lovers.

[Blunote]

The guitars come from the factory with GHS 10-46 strings installed and it's common to find folks using 9-42 or sometimes heavier gauges.

 

The total amount of tension on a guitar strung with the 9s is 85.13 lbs. The total tension for 10s is 103.6 lbs. That's a 22% difference that likely does make a difference.

[Guest HRB853370]

Jimi Hendrix used lighter fluid on his Strat too..only he used a match also!

[yuominae]

Alright, following the advice I received, I took off the strings and checked the neck. I couldn't get a wrench to loosen the truss rod, but it's supposed to be fully loosened as is, so I guess that doesn't matter. The neck is perfectly straight at present... so I don't have to worry, right?

 

I'm gonna slap some 10s on tomorrow and see how that goes. I feel really stupid for having gone to pieces like that... Thanks for your help guys. No doubt I'll be needing more again very soon though.

[bolero]

Ha!

 

Well 9s are pretty light although I've heard bill and page use lighter

 

I'm not surprised the truss rod is backed off

 

Commonly ppl use a guage larger on Gibson scale vs fender I use 11s on my heritage and 10s on fender

 

Any way still suggest finding a good Luther to put this all to rest

[bolero]

Sorry I was laughing at slammers post we must have posted @simultaneously

 

Also you could just tune up a half step for a week or so rather than changing strings?

[Blunote]

If it's perfectly strait unloaded, you should be good.

 

Think about it: There's no force acting on the neck to make it arch back. Quite the contrary; the strings, if anything will encourage it to bow forward. And if it does that, tighten the nut a smidge.

 

If you like 9s and they sound good and play well on the guitar...then I'd leave well enough alone if I were you.

[yuominae]

Sorry I was laughing at slammers post we must have posted @simultaneously

 

Also you could just tune up a half step for a week or so rather than changing strings?

 

Ah, damn!! They're off already...

[Buckyrock]

The Heritage H-157 I had built last year has a neck that is "too straight" -in that the truss rod is backed off to where is not applying any pressure. The truss rod nut is just tight enough so it won't rattle. It bothered me at first, but it does not impact the way the guitar plays. My repair guy says the neck is likely to move in the direction (over many years) to where the truss rod will eventually come into play. I use 10-46 gauge strings. Seems funny for such an expensive guitar, but i got over it. The instrument plays and sounds wonderful, so "who cares"!

[yuominae]

The Heritage H-157 I had built last year has a neck that is "too straight" -in that the truss rod is backed off to where is not applying any pressure. The truss rod nut is just tight enough so it won't rattle. It bothered me at first, but it does not impact the way the guitar plays. My repair guy says the neck is likely to move in the direction (over many years) to where the truss rod will eventually come into play. I use 10-46 gauge strings. Seems funny for such an expensive guitar, but i got over it. The instrument plays and sounds wonderful, so "who cares"!

 

Thanks for that man!! Since the neck on mine seems straight too, without strings, I should be in the same case as you. Thanks to you I'm not bothered anymore. Thanks so much for posting this!

[Buckyrock]

You're welcome. I'm happy to pass along my story. I think it's another example of the Kalamazoo guys knowing what there are doing, and that's good enough for me.