riversisblue Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I am sure this topic has been discussed but I am a noob. I have been looking at 535s recently and noticed that some of them use different stop tails. I thought it was based on the year but I don't think it is. Some have the classic LP / 335 stoptail others have something a bit different. Just curious on if that was an option or just the factory changing parts over the years. Which one is preferred? Lastly, can they be easily swapped? Thanks!
DetroitBlues Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 For the longest time, Heritage used Schaller's quick load tailpiece and roller bridge... They had issues with them and switch Tone Pro's stuff.
H Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 It's easy to switch between the older Schaller hardware and other hardware such as Gotoh, TonePros, etc. Heritage use standard Gibson sizing on the guitar mounting points so no need to worry
Kuz Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 For the longest time, Heritage used Schaller's quick load tailpiece and roller bridge... They had issues with them and switch Tone Pro's stuff. I don't ever recall Heritage sawing they had issues with the Schaller hardware. There was three reasons why they switched... 1) Seymour Duncan did a study compare the Schaller roller bridge & tail piece compared to the Nashville hard ware (essentially the Tone Pro stuff), he came up with a result that the Nashville hardware sustained something like 18-20% more and told Jay Wolfe about the study. Jay started ordering all his Heritages with the Nashville Hardware 2) Once Jay Wolfe started ordering Heritages with Nashville hardware, Heritage started to get requests for not only Nashville hardware, but Tone Pro's Nashville hardware, so Heritage just made it the default hardware. 3) Finally, Schaller was becoming a PIA to work with and were always on back order and constantly increasing their prices.
DetroitBlues Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Oh, and yes, Tone Pro's standard sizes will fit.
Kuz Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Oh, and yes, Tone Pro's standard sizes will fit. Are you guys sure about that? Schaller uses metric sizes. I had a 555 that I switched from Scaller to tone pro and I remember buying the metric size Tone Pro stuff.
H Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Are you guys sure about that? Schaller uses metric sizes. I had a 555 that I switched from Scaller to tone pro and I remember buying the metric size Tone Pro stuff. Metric bridge Imperial tailpiece Gotoh GE101 and GE103 set Tonepros LPNM04 set (T3BP bridge, T1ZS tailpiece)
GuitArtMan Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I don't ever recall Heritage sawing they had issues with the Schaller hardware. There was three reasons why they switched... 1) Seymour Duncan did a study compare the Schaller roller bridge & tail piece compared to the Nashville hard ware (essentially the Tone Pro stuff), he came up with a result that the Nashville hardware sustained something like 18-20% more and told Jay Wolfe about the study. Jay started ordering all his Heritages with the Nashville Hardware 2) Once Jay Wolfe started ordering Heritages with Nashville hardware, Heritage started to get requests for not only Nashville hardware, but Tone Pro's Nashville hardware, so Heritage just made it the default hardware. 3) Finally, Schaller was becoming a PIA to work with and were always on back order and constantly increasing their prices. Funny thing is TonePro's uses Schaller as their manufacturer! A few years back they were using Gotoh for a while after old man Shcaller passed away and the company went through some turbulent times. As far as I know though they switched back to Schaller when the company stabilized. Either way, I've had TonePro's that said "Made in Germany" (Schaller) and "Made in Japan" (Gotoh) on the bottom.
H Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 And I'm pretty sure there's a similar reason that the Gibson Nashville bridge is metric too
DetroitBlues Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Are you guys sure about that? Schaller uses metric sizes. I had a 555 that I switched from Scaller to tone pro and I remember buying the metric size Tone Pro stuff. I switch my '85 to Tone Pro's Standard size
Guest HRB853370 Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I don't ever recall Heritage sawing they had issues with the Schaller hardware. There was three reasons why they switched... 1) Seymour Duncan did a study compare the Schaller roller bridge & tail piece compared to the Nashville hard ware (essentially the Tone Pro stuff), he came up with a result that the Nashville hardware sustained something like 18-20% more and told Jay Wolfe about the study. Jay started ordering all his Heritages with the Nashville Hardware 2) Once Jay Wolfe started ordering Heritages with Nashville hardware, Heritage started to get requests for not only Nashville hardware, but Tone Pro's Nashville hardware, so Heritage just made it the default hardware. 3) Finally, Schaller was becoming a PIA to work with and were always on back order and constantly increasing their prices. Isn't number 3 a contradiction to your first sentence, and somewhat of an agreement to what DB said about issues? Why do they call the stuff "Nashville"? Is that where it is made?
H Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I switch my '85 to Tone Pro's Standard size Just to clarify this - TonePros don't make a 'standard size'. They make hardware that fits various guitars with Gibson-style bridge/tailpieces. This includes Epiphone guitars which largely DON'T have the same mix of metric and imperial fitments. It's quite easy to buy these instead of the right ones! Be careful what you order; the part numbers I gave above will work fine for all Heritages with a Gibson-style bridge/tailpiece. Those part numbers are for nickel plated items - speak to a dealer if you need gold, chrome, etc.
Kuz Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Isn't number 3 a contradiction to your first sentence, and somewhat of an agreement to what DB said about issues? Why do they call the stuff "Nashville"? Is that where it is made? I don't think it contradicts what DB said. I understood DB's comments to mean there was a defect or quality control issues. I was told that Schaller was constantly & irregularly on back order and that they were always wanting to charge more. As far as craftsmanship, German milled CNC components are usually viewed as superior to everyone. You can argue that there might be a design flaw (if the less sustain is true) but the quality of Schaller components is unquestioned.
Kuz Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Isn't number 3 a contradiction to your first sentence, and somewhat of an agreement to what DB said about issues? Why do they call the stuff "Nashville"? Is that where it is made? I was told Ren Wall actually designed the Nashville TOM bridge. As far as it being called Nashville, I am not sure exactly why but probably the Nashville bridge's association with Gibson guitars. (But this is just a guess).
H Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I was told Ren Wall actually designed the Nashville TOM bridge. As far as it being called Nashville, I am not sure exactly why but probably the Nashville bridge's association with Gibson guitars. (But this is just a guess). The Nashville bridge is Schaller's design. Based on the ABR-1 of course. Ren invented the TP-6 and the short-lived Top Adjust Nashville bridge, amongst other things.
ledzef Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I switched my hardware to Graphtech TOM and bridge standard size on the Blues Deluxe. The TOM was no problem but ran into a problem with the bridge.
Gitfiddler Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I switched my hardware to Graphtech TOM and bridge standard size on the Blues Deluxe. The TOM was no problem but ran into a problem with the bridge. My Ultra came to me with Graphtech hardware. I highly recommend it!! Best of all, it prevents string breakage and maintains great tone. Looks pretty cool too...
ledzef Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 Forgot to mention I upgraded to the auto lock feature which is nice for string changing.
chico Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 wow, amongst all this great hardware discussion I welcome riverisblue to the HOC you are among friends here with an incredible knowledge base. hope to hear more from you and don't forget to show us your Heritage when you get it. I have changed out the bridge (actually, Ren did it for me) on both my H150CM and Millie 155 to the Nashville from the Schaller which came from the H factory at production. As late as 2000, based on the year build of my H-155, Heritage was using the Schallers, maybe even using both types. But as mentioned, they drifted over to the now-standard hardware installed since then. the H535 is one of Heritage's flagship creations and they are out there to be had.. good luck with finding yours!
tbonesullivan Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 I have schaller roller bridges on two of my heritages, and they are really a good choice when a Bigsby. I recall some saying they may have a "warmer" sound. I also have never notced a lack of sustain on my guitars, and sustain isn't always desirable. Does anyone have a link to the study Seymour Duncan did?
Kuz Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 I have schaller roller bridges on two of my heritages, and they are really a good choice when a Bigsby. I recall some saying they may have a "warmer" sound. I also have never notced a lack of sustain on my guitars, and sustain isn't always desirable. Does anyone have a link to the study Seymour Duncan did? Call Jay Wolfe and as k him for the particulars. I think Ren might know as well.
rockabilly69 Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 I'd rather have a standard ABR over a Nashville any day. I never understood why they hollowed out the base of a Nashville bridge. I'm glad that TonePros is offering the standard style ABR now. I've had them both on my newer H150 and like the ABR much more. That said I removed the Tonepros, and put a Faber locking ABR on both of my H150's. I love that bridge and I like the unplated brass saddles. I also rid of the cheapass bridge inserts that comes with all HERITAGE H150's. It's a 10 minute job and INMNSHO just as important to the tone as the bridge itself... The new inserts are made of German steel and make better contact with the body!!! I really like the Tonepros lightweight tailpiece, it is a quality piece along with their deep steel studs.
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