When will it arrive? PART 2....IT ARRIVED!! :) >:(

[jazzalicious]

So....after 19 months wait....it arrived 3 weeks ago. I was excited, though there was a lot going on at the time (my mother was released from hospital the day before, and I was looking after her. AS well, my 2 year old was home from daycare that week, so...I was looking after the 2 of them).

So, it's a beautiful 575 mahogany. Not quite as I asked for:

--  (I asked for split blocks a week after originally ordering regular blocks, and they only put on the regular blocks.)

I plug in to play, and....BUZZZZZZ. All over the place. First, they put the pickup so high that the 6th and 5th strings touch it when they are picked. No problem, just lower pickup. But....the upper strings buzz as well.

So....I have to get my luthier to look at it.

1st thing he notices.....F-holes differ in terms of thickness. A LOT. So, now I'm worried...is it structurally sound? Will it cave in?

2nd - buzzing is due to radius of bridge not matching radius of fingerboard. But also, the groove in the bridge for the B string is cut too deep, so it is the main culprit when it buzzes. Other string grooves will have to be cut to balance out.

3rd - bridge is not flush with body

4th - bridge top leans backwards towards tailpiece?

5th - when pickup was mounted into top, it was cut into some of the X-bracing. Again....structurally sound??

6th- and VERY IMPORTANT....hex nut of truss rod is all crooked, and has scores from a truss rod wrench all over it. Obviously, whoever put in the truss rod had trouble adjusting it, because it is crooked. This implies that the truss rod may be crooked! OR, the wood around the hex nut and unde the truss rod cover is crooked. My luthier tried putting a truss rod wrench on the hex nut, and said that it only goes on about half way, and at that is at a very bad angle. He didn't even want to try to adjust it. He says that Heritage should know about this.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I know from picking it up that the feel, and size are EXACTLY what I want. I have a  Golden Eagle, as well as an Ibanez George Benson model. But this one....the body size and neck are great!!

Also, the wood combination of mahogany body and rosewood board for me, are the sound that I dig. I prefer it over the typical maple body/ebony board.

So.....WHAT DO I DO? I waited 19 months for this, and there some major issues. I don't want my money back, I want a guitar that is solid, plays well, adjusts properly, and sounds great.

I am going to have my luthier takes pics of all the issues, which I will forward to Heritage. I am going to call Tuesday to address this.

Please wish me luck. Right now, I am more than a little worried, and quite disappointed.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Jazzalicious

[valirossi]

If i had waited 19 months for a guitar and paid out serious coin, i would be furious. I would want blood.

My 157 is cool, but it needed a little work. I have to admit my best les paul is an epiphone elitist LP standard.

Got it for 800 smackers. It was worthless at first though, the saddles were stupidly designed and it wouldn't stay in tune. Great now.

The only out of the box nearly perfect guitars I have ever had were Ibanez.

 

If it's not right make a stink.

[yoslate]

Really sorry to hear about all that!!!  I know how disappointed I'd have been to receive an instrument with those problems after my wait.  There's nothing right about that, and you should seek, and you deserve, remedy immediately.  Ren seems to me to be the straw that stirs the drink at Parsons Street.  I'd talk to anyone I could there, but I would ultimately want Ren to know what was going on and to commit to do something definitive to get that guitar right.  Those problems are simply unacceptable.  I wouldn't let anyone touch it.  It needs to be returned to the factory as is and be repaired, and returned to you, pronto.  I would try to convey my sincere and profound disappointment and that I wanted that  guitar, but wanted it right.  They certainly seemed good guys at the Pilgrimage, and I can't imagine that if you convey the seriousness of the guitar's condition and your profound disappointment, they won't try to do right by you.  I hope Kuz and Brent weigh in with opinions for you on this thread.  They'll have valuable insight.  Best of luck!  

[Kuz]

CALL VINCE & REN- Tell them you are an HOC member and tell them the instrument is not acceptable and you waited 19 months and want another ASAP!

[High Flying Bird]

You need to call before 10:00 central and ask to talk to Marvin Lamb.  I didn't know him from Adam when I took this photo and I didn't set up this shot.  This Marvin signing off on a few guitars Katie sanded.  He is a good man just like the rest up there.  He is an owner as well so he will be glad to get the feedback.  Your not happy, their not happy... this forum isn't happy, which may sound like BS but this forum has weight in Kzoo. 

 

http://www.ronwarren.com/225parsons/img_8692_std.jpg[/img]

[brentrocks]

CALL REN!!!!!

 

he will take care of you

 

269-385-5721

 

i'm sorry you are dissapointed in your guitar....the way you make it sound it should be a #2?  but after waiting that long, i'm sure the microscope is out.  it sounds like you should take it back to your dealer and let your dealer handle this?

[golferwave]

  Send it straight back to the factory.  I can't imagine that a guitar with all of those problems could make it past those sharp eyes on Parsons Street but strange things do happen.  I KNOW they will make things right for you.

[Niles]

From personal experience (not guitar manufacture) I have seen stupid mistakes get past quality control. It happens. If the top is questionable I would not accept the guitar and since the inlays are not as requested, I would send back.

Arround 1970 I ordered a brand new Gibson SG Standard based on the new one I had seen the previous year. I checked with the dealer every other day to see if it had arrived (I was 18 at the time) The dealer told me that the employees at the factory were on strike and it was months before my guitar arrived. When it finally arrived and I opened a rectangular? case the 1st time, the guitar had been redesigned with top control routing with the pots mounted on a semi-circular plastic plate. The cutaways were not the same I was disappointed but accepted the guitar because I had waited sooooo long. Big mistake! It was a terrible era for Gibson with rampant cost and labor cutting measures.

I didn't know enough at the time to notice that the neck angle was bad and I played that guitar for the next 10 or 12 years with the bridge adjusted all the way down to the body.   Dont' Settle!!!!

[GuitArtMan]

Sorry to hear about your prediciment.  In your shoes I would at least talk with someone at the factory or possibly return the guitar - it's hard to say.

 

I custom ordered two Heritages in my time and both took longer than promissed and both had issues.  The first was a H-535 that I odered with trapezoid inlays, bound peg head and f-holes, super flame maple, Seth Lovers (long before these were common), and deep C neck carve patterened after my Gword '59 Flame Top RI.  Well guitar number one arrives about a month later than promissed (not to bad) except is has a super thin neck (like the slim '60s) and plain jane maple.  That one goes back and I'm assued I'm rushed to the front of the line (another two months).  Well two months go buy and guitfiddle number two hasn't arrived.  Then three months... then four...  Eventually what was thought to be a finish flaw was discovered to be a crack in the wood and guitar number two has to be destroyed.  At his point they ask me if I want to continue waiting or if I wanted a refund.  I wanted the guitar so I told them to continue.  Well after 13 months (Iwas quoted 4-5) the guitar arrives and is beautiful, except one thing.  The deep C neck carve I wanted was a deep D shape.  It felt like someone had take a 2x4 and jut rounded the corners over a bit. This one I kept.  I had the frets dressed localy and played it for a while.  It played and sounded (and of course looked) great but I never could get used to the neck shape and eventually sent it back to the factory for a neck re-shape.  I wont go into the fiasco that turned into...

 

The second custom order was Millenium 2k with some custom fetures:  solid trapezoid inlays, not the outlines, toggle switch on upper bout ala Les Paul/H150, carved flame maple back ala Millenium Eagle.  I forget what the quoted time was but somewhat after that point I get a call saying they messed up at the factory.  Because they normally only do trapezoid inlyas on rosewood they made the guitar with a rosewood board.  They asked me if I minded or not and if I wanted to wait for them to replace the fingerboard.  I said no, just finish it up as is.  Well this guitar arrives and it is beautifull.  The neck carve was one of the nicest if not the nicest of any Heritage (or any guitar for that matter) I've owned.  The bummer was even though it was a semi-hollow the thing weighed a ton - as much as my Les Paul.  Also, the carved back made it hand funny when standing up - it rotated the body a bit - and so I never bonded with it.

[jazzalicious]

Well. At this point, after waiting so long, I am very anxious to have this settled. The bridge problems can all be fixed by my luthier, as well as the possible need for a fret levelling (I shouldn't have to pay for this though....don't you agree?)

The problems that worry me the most are the INCONSISTENCIES IN THE TOP THICKNESS, the fact that they CUT INTO THE X-BRACING IN THE TOP FOR THE PICKUP (perhaps they do this all the time, and nobody notices. My luthier goes into the F-holes with a mirror and little flashlight to inspect the interior of all archtops he works on.) If Heritage tells me honestly that I don't have to worry about structural integrity, then I will probably give them the benefit of the doubt. but, what also worries me is the truss rod issue. IS THE TRUSS ROD SET CROOKED INTO THE BODY???? That means a new fingerboard, in which case, they can get the issue of the split block inlays right this time, hopefully.

Sending back to dealer is probably useless. He's in the states, I'm in Montreal, Canada.

Wish me luck.

Jazzalicious

[SouthpawGuy]

jazzalicious ....

 

It sounds to me like this guitar is a bad apple. If I was in your position I would send the guitar back, I know you've waited a long time to get it but you did not wait to get an instrument with serious issues.

Your luthier may be able to fix some of the issues but why should you be in such a position where you need to get repairs done on a brand new instrument ?

I myself would not buy a used guitar with such problems, I think you need to bite the bullet and make your displeasure known to the guys at Heritage.

 

Hope you get the problems sorted, keep us posted please.

[pro-fusion]

Wow, that sucks.  Of those problems, the truss rod is the one that worries me the most.  That's a very basic structural flaw.

[GuitArtMan]

It sounds to me like the truss rod nut was cross threaded.  Whomever installed the nut should have caught this and immediately removed the nut and threaded it on straight.  If they cranked down on it (which it sounds lile they did) then there is a very good chance the threads are stripped on the rod itself - not good.  This should be looked at.  I'd say this one needs to go back to Parsons street for a serious QA review. 

 

As for the frets not being level...  On a guitar of this value yes the frets should be level and perfectly crowned ihmo.  But the fact of the matter is Heritage's (and Gibson's) fret work has historcially sucked.  When I buy a new Heritage (or Gword) I always factor in at least a fret dress (level/crown/polish) into the equation.  I've not owned one in 30+ years of playing that didn't need it.

[cod65]

I thought the almighty Plek machine was supposed to take care of fret inconsistencies.

 

Geezz, how could all this happen? it's not the first time I've heard a story like this. You would think that the custom orders would be the one'

s getting the most attention, but it sounds the opposite.

[brentrocks]

I thought the almighty Plek machine was supposed to take care of fret inconsistencies.

 

Geezz, how could all this happen? it's not the first time I've heard a story like this. You would think that the custom orders would be the one'

s getting the most attention, but it sounds the opposite.

 

the plek machine is down

[GuitArtMan]

I thought the almighty Plek machine was supposed to take care of fret inconsistencies.

 

Geezz, how could all this happen? it's not the first time I've heard a story like this. You would think that the custom orders would be the one'

s getting the most attention, but it sounds the opposite.

There's a thread over at TGP by someone who is learning to run the Plek and had some training by Joe Glasser.  He bascially says (paraphrased) "it's not the machine, it's the guy runing it."  So if the guy runing it doesn't program it right, the results will be less than spectacular.  It is not as simple as just slapping the guitar on the plek and punching a button and getting a fantastic fret job.  For it to work it's best there is alot of interaction between the tech and the plek. 

[Kuz]

FWIW, My pleked Heritage guitars have always been outstanding.

 

It is my opinion that a lot (if not all) of these issues I have heard about lately are "dealer" problems not Heritage problems.

 

During shipping the guitar should be detuned- this can lead to a number of slight adjustments that are necessary "before" the customer gets the guitar.

A general set up/evaluation should be done by the dealer.

 

If the dealer has to ship the guitar to the customer (then again the guitar needs to be detuned for shipping- and the guitar needs a general set up again).

 

I have own countless guitars in 25 years and NOT OF THEM HAS ARRIVED WHERE I HAVEN'T HAD TO MAKE MY OWN GENERAL SET ADJUSTMENTS TO SUIT MY STYLE. I either do it myself or give it to a excellent luthier and the guitars play great.

 

I currently own 7 Heritage guitars and know my local cats that play them. I have never heard of anyone complaining about bad frets, or bad this or that.

 

I guess we are all lucky over here in Ohio.... ???

[cod65]

that is true , Kuz. i remember when i custom ordered my 158, I thought itwas kind of odd that i had to have it shipped to Jay in Fla. first (I live in Ca.). I suggested that they just ship it to me direct, but it went to Jay anyway. i think he probably added the pickguard i requested (it was plastic, not wood), and maybe even the Bigsby(because Ihad them put a righty on a lefty guitar). I remember him saying something about 'setting things up' or something before it would get to me.

 

So maybe that wasn't such a bad idea to go thru the dealer first.  From the factory perspective they are probably way behind and just trying to get them out the door- parlaying the setup onto the dealer

[jazzalicious]

Well guys. Sent all the pics to Heritage and to the dealer that my luthier took of all the issues, and then called and talked to Ren yesterday. He said that he would talk it over with the others, and get back to me. Vince Margol called me first thing this morning, and said that based on the issues, the best thing is for them to make me a new guitar! So.....on the one hand it's a shame, because this IS a beautiful guitar, and the neck profile turned out to be more of a "C" shape than a shallow "D" as is on my Golden Eagle. I really prefer the "C" shape, so I am gonna request that they try to replicate that profile....very comfortable to me.

But.....I guess the truss rod issue is too severe to fix, and would be lots of trouble and time. So....they are putting me on the top of the list. I get first priority based on the time I waited for this one.

They aren't happy that this happened, and in the end makes headaches for everyone, but they are taking every measure to make sure that I get a guitar that I am happy with, so......I have to give them kudos for that.

I will keep you all notified as to developments, and...

thanks for your support.

Jazzalicious

[yoslate]

Good for you!  I know it will be another wait, jazz, but I think this is the resolution you'll want in the long term.  I would try to find the point between being an irritant and being vigilant in keeping up with the instrument's progress, probably through emails with Ren or perhaps Vince.  Maybe let them know you'd like to do that in advance, then follow up with brief, succinct emails at reasonable intervals to remind them you're being attentive.  They're good guys and want to do right by every instrument.  But they are human, and, ya know, there just aren't a lot of people working in that shop, and there's an awful lot to do, an awful lot up in the air at any one time.  Best of luck on this one!  Keep us posted....

[big bob]

I'm glad it all worked out for you. bet they make the new one extra nice...

[Gitfiddler]

Jazz~  Glad things are moving in the right direction for you. 

 

In cases such as this, it is amazing how much positive press can come about from a negative issue.  The guys at Heritage are smart enough to realize that a ton of 'lurkers' may check out this site and see how they manage what appears to be a legit customer service matter.  These fine guitars are made by hand, mostly of wood, and sometimes an 'oops' gets out the door.  No excuses for Heritage, but it happens to all guitar makers, large and small and in between.  Just take a look over at the LP Forum and you will soon tire of the bitching about the Gibson QC issues.  Of the three brand new Gibsons I've purchased over the years, two had to be replaced due to factory 'issues'.   

 

In addition to Heritage's actual cost to replace your instrument, there's the perception of how reputable they are as a company, and how they care for their buying public.  Heritage made a commitment to themselves as well as to those of us who love their product and all that they stand for when Vince took over the reigns last year.  This situation is a test of that commitment. 

 

Kudos to all of the owners at Heritage for their response thus far.  Let us know how your situation progresses and hopefully, you will be the proud owner of 'that special guitar' that you originally ordered.

 

Tim

[golferwave]

  I knew the guys would make it right for you and I'll bet your new one gets extra special attention to detail.  Let us know how it turns out.

[Rude Dog]

I'm glad it all worked out for you. bet they make the new one extra nice...

+1