12ax7 - which new production?

[tbonesullivan]

the tung sol reissues are nice, and I also like the Electro Harmonix 12AX7. they are a solid, dependable tube, and work well in a lot of positions. I also have good things to say about the Sovtek LP and LPS tubes. The LPS in particular has a spiral filament (the S in the name) which means it can help eliminate hum in amps that do not have DC heater filaments on the early stage tubes. I also like JJ 12AX7's, and have heard good things about the Mullard reissues.

 

If you can find some EI tubes, they are really nice. Sadly I think their factory in Yugoslavia is a lost cause.

 

One thing to remember is that New Sensor corp has the rights to the Sovtek, Tung Sol, Svetlana, Mullard, and other trade names. They also make Electroharmonix tubes, and all are made at the Reflektor plant in Russia. I don't know if anyone has done a detailed analysis on the "reissue" tubes vs the original tubes.

 

Chinese tubes are a point of contention for many, as some people like them, and some don't like them. They really only have one tube they put out, which gets labeled various different ways. I know them as the Shuguang 9th generation tubes, and they do get some nice breakup but don't seem to have the depth of some other brands.

 

I am probably going to order a bunch of tubes i don't have to try them out in various amps. My carvin V3 is a bit harsh at times, and many have said the reissue mullards can help smooth things out. currently I have a tung sol in there.

 

I do also have a ton of Sovtek 12AX7WA's that came stock in my carvin MTS3212, X-100B, etc. I use them for reverb drivers, and sometimes for phase inverters.

 

when looking for tubes, the tube store, tube depot, dougs tubes, lord valve, etc are all places I've heard are good to deal with. i haven't ordered tubes in quite a while though. I've currently got a whole bunch of tubes just lying around, mainly from replacing stock tubes I wasn't happy with.

[RJLII]

I've always been a Tung-Sol 12AX7 guy across the board, but my perspective has been changed a bit.

 

The ThroBak I got from Brent was making some unusual noises every now and again so I had a local Amp Tech/Effects builder give it the once over. He works on lots of amps, and is a certified warranty repair house for a number of manufacturers. It boiled down to a wonky input jack and a V1 tube (Tung-Sol) that would go off the reservation occasionally. He installed a JJ ECC83S, saying it was the quietest and best sounding V1 he'd come across. He likes Tung-Sol for the other positions. It sounded great to me. I dropped one in my Carr Rambler and noticed a difference too. YMMV.

[tbonesullivan]

there is a whole lot of tube swapping going on all the time at most amp forums, so heading over there can be enlightening. I also forgot to mention eurotubes.com, which sells tubes, but only JJ brand, which are made at the Tesla factory. they do make some nice tubes.

 

I remember hearing a comparison clip using I think a top hat amplifier where a bunch of different tubes were compared for sound on the same amp settings, same riff, same guitar. wish I could find it now. probably long gone.

[kbp810]

there is a whole lot of tube swapping going on all the time at most amp forums, so heading over there can be enlightening. I also forgot to mention eurotubes.com, which sells tubes, but only JJ brand, which are made at the Tesla factory. they do make some nice tubes.

 

I remember hearing a comparison clip using I think a top hat amplifier where a bunch of different tubes were compared for sound on the same amp settings, same riff, same guitar. wish I could find it now. probably long gone.

 

Well, first to clarify... JJ tubes are not made by Tesla; they use some of the old equipment purchased from Tesla to make them, but they are not built the same, nor in the same factory. The whole JJ/Tesla thing you see on some tube store sites is pretty much just a marketing gag... not even JJ Electronics makes mention of Tesla, so not even sure how that one got started.

 

Second, I'll do my best to not turn this into a rant, but I have seriously had horrible luck with JJ preamps - it's not a tone thing, it's a reliability and consistency thing. I have had a very high percentage of them that were junk out of the box, or failed prematurely. Everything from DOA, to noisy, to non-musical, fragile glass, air leaks that cause them to burn up right away (the white tip of death!), etc... Sure I have had rejects from all across the board (modern, nos, and "nos"), but none that can hold a candle to how many JJ's I've had to toss.

 

...now to clarify, conversely I do happen to have had reasonably good luck with JJ power tubes; I just try my best to not spend my money on their preamps anymore.

[golferwave]

 

Well, first to clarify... JJ tubes are not made by Tesla; they use some of the old equipment purchased from Tesla to make them, but they are not built the same, nor in the same factory. The whole JJ/Tesla thing you see on some tube store sites is pretty much just a marketing gag... not even JJ Electronics makes mention of Tesla, so not even sure how that one got started.

 

Second, I'll do my best to not turn this into a rant, but I have seriously had horrible luck with JJ preamps - it's not a tone thing, it's a reliability and consistency thing. I have had a very high percentage of them that were junk out of the box, or failed prematurely. Everything from DOA, to noisy, to non-musical, fragile glass, air leaks that cause them to burn up right away (the white tip of death!), etc... Sure I have had rejects from all across the board (modern, nos, and "nos"), but none that can hold a candle to how many JJ's I've had to toss.

 

...now to clarify, conversely I do happen to have had reasonably good luck with JJ power tubes; I just try my best to not spend my money on their preamps anymore.

 

 

I've experienced multiple failures with JJ power tubes so I no longer use any of their tubes.

[RJLII]

Interesting. I've never had an issue with JJ pre or power tubes. To be fair though, all I've used until recently was their 6V6S, EL84, and 5Y3S. The ECC83S are recent, and those are represented to be a different construction than normal (spiral filament and ruggedized construction) lending to quieter operation and greater reliability. Or it's all hype. In any case my tech is a believer. I wonder if supply chain makes a difference? I buy thru Tube Depot, and they allegedly test everything to make sure it's OK prior to shipping.

[rockabilly69]

I've tried all of these JJ tubes and have bad luck with all them especially the rattling 5Y3s!!!

 

Interesting. I've never had an issue with JJ pre or power tubes. To be fair though, all I've used until recently was their 6V6S, EL84, and 5Y3S. The ECC83S are recent, and those are represented to be a different construction than normal (spiral filament and ruggedized construction) lending to quieter operation and greater reliability. Or it's all hype. In any case my tech is a believer. I wonder if supply chain makes a difference? I buy thru Tube Depot, and they allegedly test everything to make sure it's OK prior to shipping.

[Kuz]

I have not had any issues with JJs other than they sounded lifeless and bland to me.

[golferwave]

Interesting. I've never had an issue with JJ pre or power tubes. To be fair though, all I've used until recently was their 6V6S, EL84, and 5Y3S. The ECC83S are recent, and those are represented to be a different construction than normal (spiral filament and ruggedized construction) lending to quieter operation and greater reliability. Or it's all hype. In any case my tech is a believer. I wonder if supply chain makes a difference? I buy thru Tube Depot, and they allegedly test everything to make sure it's OK prior to shipping.

 

 

Two failures of brand new EL84's and one failure of a brand new 6L6. No more for me.

[tbonesullivan]

Interesting, as I have never had any problems with JJ tubes. The preamp tubes have a good tone, and nice breakup, though not as nice as the used mullard and telefunkens I have used. I've also yet to have one die on me, either a preamp or power amp tube. I have them in my Carvin X-100B, and MTS3212. Of course, I got them all 5+ years ago, so things may have changed. I remember when JJ started using these smaller tube pins that caused a ton of problems. Also dougs tubes stopped offering a lot of their tubes, though they are available elsewhere.

 

Groove tubes gets tubes from JJ, but Mesa Boogie does not apparently. However they use TAD tubes, and who knows where they come from.

 

Last I checked, there are only really 3 producers of tubes out there lately. EI in Yugoslavia and Svetlana (SED) in St Petersburg Russia have closed since I started using tube amps almost 10 years ago. I was lucky to get a quad of SED EL34s for my Marshall TSL122 before the closure, as those are the tubes that work best, according to my amp tech. they are the tubes the amp was designed around.

 

So, tubes are only coming out of the Saratov plant run by new sensor, China, or JJ in the slovak republic. Groove tubes does have some NOS parts to make GE tubes, but I wouldn't really count on that as a real source of tubes.

 

I have heard somewhat apocryphal stories that New Sensor may go for the SED factory, given the issues they have had with local BS around the exo-pul factory. I've also heard that western electric may move to acquire the EI factory in Yugoslavia. I hope that there is some truth to those rumors.

 

But for now, we're limited to chinese, russian, or slovakian tubes.

[rockabilly69]

But for now, we're limited to chinese, russian, or slovakian tubes.

 

Or just go get some NOS tubes:) Expensive yes, but I still have some NOS tubes that

have been in my amps for over 50 years! Try that with a JJ:)

[tbonesullivan]

there are also plenty of used "old production" tubes that test pretty much close to new. Back then they were made to last.

 

The prices on NOS tubes are becoming kinda nuts. And then there are idiots who are doing all kinds of weird cryogenic things to the NOS tubes to get more money for them. bleh.

[rockabilly69]

there are also plenty of used "old production" tubes that test pretty much close to new. Back then they were made to last.

 

 

 

Agreed, I've got some good tubes from stereo and old organ pulls, they are out there and are worth taking a chance on.

[bolero]

 

Agreed, I've got some good tubes from stereo and old organ pulls, they are out there and are worth taking a chance on.

 

careful with those old organs....don't wanna hurt yourself!!

[tbonesullivan]

 

Agreed, I've got some good tubes from stereo and old organ pulls, they are out there and are worth taking a chance on.

 

Yeah. The problem there is that usually you've gotta get the whole dang organ along with the tubes. Even if it's free, getting those things out are a PITA, and then you've gotta get rid of it, as many are completely broken down/destroyed and not really worth trying to restore.

[rockabilly69]

 

Yeah. The problem there is that usually you've gotta get the whole dang organ along with the tubes. Even if it's free, getting those things out are a PITA, and then you've gotta get rid of it, as many are completely broken down/destroyed and not really worth trying to restore.

I didn't buy the organ, just the tubes!

[tbonesullivan]

I didn't buy the organ, just the tubes!

Lucky!!! I tried to do that a few times, and they were selling it for free, but most will require you take the whole darn thing. I even offered money once to pop it open to look for tubes, but they seem to know a few things, and knew that was what most would be looking for, so they said no.

[tulk1]

I've been watching AMT's development of their WarmStone 12AX7s for a while. Trouble is, right now they are very expensive to ship and have to be purchased in quads. Otherwise, I'd try a couple.

 

JJ's - I have mixed feelings about them. When they first gained popularity I thought they were a decent tube. Had them in a couple of amps. Last few years ... no thanks. Not for JJ branded JJ's. However, doing a test of filament style and tube style it seems that Mesa is now using unbranded JJ's. Mesa always did use the best of the least expensive (mostly rebranded chinese tubes). Seems they've stepped up the game a bit. And honestly, I like the pre's in my TA15 enough that I haven't even thought of swapping.

[TalismanRich]

I bought a bunch of tubes to try in the Patriot last year at the Spartanburg Guitars Show, but haven't put the first one in yet. It has JJs in it now (I think), but I have Mullard reissue, an LPS, TAD, Tungsol, and a 12AT7 to maybe try in the PI slot. Maybe someday when I don't have anything to do, I'll blow a Saturday or Sunday playing with the little glass bottles.

[holyroller]

Go with ,, nos tubes there not that exspensive.lots of good ge,and rca tubes .