Truly heavy strings on a Sweet 16

[MartyGrass]

I took my Sweet 16 up from D'Addario Chrome Flatwound 12s to LaBella Flatwound 15s.

 

Results:

 

1. Louder

2. I feel the body vibrate

3. Fuller sound amplified

4. Forget bending and learn to slide a half step

 

Although LaBella calls these heavy, they were pretty typical in the 1940s.

 

15-19-25-33-44-56

 

A needed about 2/3s a turn on the truss rod nut.

 

The action is a little lower, to be expected. It's not harder to play since this Sweet 16 has a fabulous neck that's straight as can be. It probably helped to have it PLEK'd a few years ago.

 

Bigger strings not only are louder acoustically but give a greater signal to noise ratio from the guitar, so I'm told.

 

Are these strings safe for the top? Yes, provided the boys at Heritage glued the bracing well. A quick mirror check shows all is well.

 

Am I recommending these strings? While these strings used to be the cat's pajamas and the bees knees, they now only make sense in a few instances. Clean jazz is one. Surf is another. That's about it.

 

Gratuitous pix:

 

 

Here are the ropes on the nut.

 

 

Always use protection when changing strings with this kind of tailpiece. Remember, Murphy's law is stronger than your best plans.

 

 

Low action.

 

[Fernando]

WOW...

 

I'd like a callus report from you in a few weeks.

 

Do these strings come in a barbed version, too?

 

Are you going to post a sound clip? I'm curious to hear them in action.

 

Very cool, Mark!

[Gitfiddler]

After switching from D'Addario Chrome 12's to LaBella 12's I also noticed more volume, body vibration, improved tone, etc. But I still could do subtle string bends.

 

I'm a relatively new fan of LaBella on archtops, and very pleased so far.

 

You are a brave soul to jump to 15's. I'd be concerned with the various stress points on the guitar.

[RhoadsScholar]

I would have thought the setup would have been more substantial. 2/3 of a turn and that is it. A testament to those folks at heritage as that sweet 16 must be pretty bullet proof.

[Vanschoyck]

Hard core baby. Serious.

[Kuz]

I truly hope the best for you with these strings and while their seems to be no signs of damage or stress now, I would be seriously worried of caving the top in or braces separating over time.

 

Probably just me, but I wouldn't use anything over 13s (really now all my archtops & acoustics have 12s). I would afraid of serious damage years from now.

 

Just my .02, I am probably in the minority on this matter.

[Genericmusic]

An evening playing those cables would make my fingers a bloody mess. Seriously, nice report. I am not familiar with LaBella. I guess I should be.

[MartyGrass]

Howard Roberts played with 18s. Listen to the theme from the Munsters to hear his sound. His instruments held up.

 

The action drops with heavier strings so it doesn't feel much harder to play.

[Ned]

Thanks for exploring the frontier and reporting back. I have flats - 12s - on a guitar I played amplified (Jazzmaster). For my others that are played mostly acoustically I use round wound. For what it's worth, I had a tone and volume improvement when I switched over to to TI s at the urging of someone on this board. Love the sweet 16.

 

Your report does make me curious about running flats acoustically. Thank you

[Number8]

The heavy E looks like a metal hose. I bet it sounds like a six string harp. Awesome.

[MartyGrass]

From Wikipedia, here are some other Howard Roberts tunes.

 

Roberts played rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass and mandolin, in the studio and for television and movie projects, including lead guitar on the theme from The Twilight Zone, as well as the classic guitar themes in The Munsters, Bonanza, The Brady Bunch, Green Acres, Get Smart, Batman,Beverly Hillbillies, Andy Griffith, Peter Gunn, Johnny Quest, Gidget, Mannix, Lost in Space, Dragnet, Wild Wild West, Mission Impossible, The Odd Couple, and rhythm guitar on the theme from I Dream of Jeannie.

Artists Roberts backed include Georgie Auld, Peggy Lee (Fever), Eddie Cochran (Sittin In The Balcony), Bobby Day (Rockin Robin), Jody Reynolds (Endless Sleep), Shelley Fabares (Johnny Angel), Dean Martin (Houston), The Monkees, Roy Clark, Chet Atkins, and The Electric Prunes.

 

Here he is with his most used archtop that put up with heavy strings for decades.

 

 

 

Take a listen to the strength of his notes.

 

[58super]

Howard Roberts' albums under his own name such as Goodies, and H.R. Is a Dirty Guitar Player are great albums with some very tasteful playing and arrangements. Even with heavy strings he'd throw in some bent notes once in a while.

[fxdx99]

15s!!!!!!! (looong low whistle). Wow.

[Number8]

 

 

I never listen to jazz; not due to lack of appreciation but due to lack of familiarity. My experience as a novice has been that I search for jazz+guitar and 9 out of 10 hits are something that's too esoteric for my tastes. Meanwhile, this Howard Robert's stuff you linked to is what "jazz+guitar" sounds like in my head. That's sonic gravy right there. Thanks for the point in the right direction.

 

P.S. Please post more links to stuff like this. (Here or elsewhere, please.)

[yoslate]

From Wikipedia, here are some other Howard Roberts tunes.

 

Roberts played rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass and mandolin, in the studio and for television and movie projects, including lead guitar on the theme from The Twilight Zone, as well as the classic guitar themes in The Munsters, Bonanza, The Brady Bunch, Green Acres, Get Smart, Batman,Beverly Hillbillies, Andy Griffith, Peter Gunn, Johnny Quest, Gidget, Mannix, Lost in Space, Dragnet, Wild Wild West, Mission Impossible, The Odd Couple, and rhythm guitar on the theme from I Dream of Jeannie.

Artists Roberts backed include Georgie Auld, Peggy Lee (Fever), Eddie Cochran (Sittin In The Balcony), Bobby Day (Rockin Robin), Jody Reynolds (Endless Sleep), Shelley Fabares (Johnny Angel), Dean Martin (Houston), The Monkees, Roy Clark, Chet Atkins, and The Electric Prunes.

 

Here he is with his most used archtop that put up with heavy strings for decades.

 

 

 

Take a listen to the strength of his notes.

 

 

Certified Badass...! Absolutely, Mark! Smooth and lyrical, yet every note punches like Sugar Ray.

[Number8]

Hot damn, that organ ain't bad either....

[Genericmusic]

 

Certified Badass...! Absolutely, Mark! Smooth and lyrical, yet every note punches like Sugar Ray.

+1

[2bornot2bop]

HR had one seriously phat tone.

 

Coming to archtops 3 years ago, after a year of not reaching the tone I was after, yes I know, us kids are in a rush to reach paydirt...I began experimenting with larger strings. An archtop arrived with TI GB 12's, and I knew then I'd found my string. But it wasn't until I installed TI GB 14's did I discover the tone I was seeking from a string.

 

My theory became, the closer one gets to piano wire, the warmer, read old school fat jazz tone, an archtop will project...that's been my brief experience to date.

 

As to comfort, the TI's are reportedly created with lesser string tension than strings of equivalent size. Their 12's feel like 11's from every other make I'd tried. Playing 14's for some 2 years now, my fingers have made the adjustment, and 12's now feel and sound far too thin for the tone difference from the larger string is in fact noticeably different, and frankly, very addicting. Although ones tone is clearly in their hands, one can do a lot to create the type of tone their after by selecting a larger string.

 

Mark, I'd suggest sampling a pair of TI Bebop 13 rounds on that archtop. They've less noise than typical rounds. And they're amazingly warm and vibrant. I call 'em phosphor bronze for archtops.

[MartyGrass]

Based on your advice, Greg, I'll get a pack and check them out.

 

Thanks.

[2bornot2bop]

Based on your advice, Greg, I'll get a pack and check them out.

 

Thanks.

Yes, install the bebop 12's in the review. Lush and warm. After several playing sessions the grooves sort of fill in like D'A half rounds. Thank me later.

 

http://bolesblogs.com/2011/04/17/thomastik-infeld-jazz-bebop-12-50-guitar-strings-review/

[2bornot2bop]

The above is the review. I placed both 114's and 113's on a 16" Cremona. You'd have thought it was a big box. I get mine 4 to a pack here:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300910412440?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[peterbright]

_{And to make matters even more interesting...I usually use a flat wound B string as well.}