My H157 is in the Guitar Hospital

[HANGAR18]

I recently discovered a place in town that has a PLEK machine and I've seen the guy's work up close he's really good.

My H157 is relatively new to me but it has been reasonably well played over the years before I bought it and thought it would benefit greatly from a PLEK job. So, I dropped her off at the shop (Crossroads Guitar Shop) yesterday after work and the ETA is two weeks because word is spreading and this guy is getting loaded up with work fast. I've got other guitars to play so i guess it won't be too bad waiting a couple of weeks. I'm really looking forward to seeing the results.

 

Oh yea, and I almost forgot to mention that the shop is located right next to a small blues club restaurant place of some sort. I've never been there but now that I know it's there, I'm certainly going to check it out.

 

 

[Number8]

Cool. If it's not any trouble, could you post the images of the reports that the PLEK machine produces before and after it does its work? I'm talking about the diagnostic illustration of where the frets and fingerboards have variance from where they "should" be. I think it would be an interesting reference for those who might consider getting their Heritages PLEK'ed in the future (such as myself).

[Guest HRB853370]

Wow, the Plek machine even produces images!! Like a high tech piece of medical equipment! Does a Plek job run in the hundreds Danny?

[Blunote]

I have to say that is one beautiful trans black finish on that guitar.

 

What year was your H157 built? As you're probably aware, there were some years the guys actually used the plek machine at the Parsons St. shop. We've also had some debate here bout whether plek is better than a set up by a skilled luthier.

 

I'll be interested to hear about how it turns out.

[MartyGrass]

Prices have come down to around $125.

[HANGAR18]

Cool. If it's not any trouble, could you post the images of the reports that the PLEK machine produces before and after it does its work? I'm talking about the diagnostic illustration of where the frets and fingerboards have variance from where they "should" be. I think it would be an interesting reference for those who might consider getting their Heritages PLEK'ed in the future (such as myself).

 

That's a great idea! I'll ask the guy if I can get a print out or a .PDF file showing the before and after versions of the PLEK job and post the results here. I'll do my best to make that happen.

[HANGAR18]

Wow, the Plek machine even produces images!! Like a high tech piece of medical equipment! Does a Plek job run in the hundreds Danny?

 

 

Prices have come down to around $125.

 

Ha! This is Northern Virginia, a friggin' Happy Meal costs $125.00 (exaggeration).

The PLEK job will be $210.00 which includes minor adjustments to the setup if need be.

[HANGAR18]

What year was your H157 built? As you're probably aware, there were some years the guys actually used the plek machine at the Parsons St. shop. We've also had some debate here bout whether plek is better than a set up by a skilled luthier.

 

 

The year of 1999 AD. The guy at Crossroads (Vince) says that it is better to have a PLEK job and setup done for the actual person who is going to play the instrument as opposed to having a generic setup from the factory. I don't know if that explanation does his sales pitch justice or not but I do know this particular guitar had a little bit of uneven fret wear and I'm hoping it will be as good as new when the job is done.

 

When I dropped it off, I also brought in my best playing guitar so that the string heights could be measured from that guitar as an example of what I wanted. Vince could literally set the string height anywhere you wanted it, even lower than you would ever want it to be, so you have to tell him exactly where you want the strings. I didn't know what number to tell him so I said, "Here, make it play as good as this one" and let him see my best player.

[Gitfiddler]

Hangar18~ First of all, what a fantastic looking TransBlack 157!!

 

I also had my 157 Plek'd along with a re-fret, and bone nut by San Francisco's Gary Brawer. Beforehand we discussed my playing style, preferred fret gauge and style (hot dog ends, tapered, etc.) and action.

 

He was great to work with and the instrument now plays smoothly all up the neck with low action and zero fret buzz.

 

Bottom line is I think you'll like your Plek job.

 

Looking forward to your 'after' report.

[MartyGrass]

The PLEK machine looks at fret heights and string vibration. The goal is to get the lowest action possible without buzzing.

 

To get your money's worth you need to first decide what string you're going to use on the guitar. If you don't know or you may make a significant change, don't PLEK it.

 

The next question is how hard are you going to play the strings. Loud strumming vs. softer picking makes a difference. If you don't know, don't PLEK it.

 

Then you set up the guitar. If you can achieve a good feel without buzzing, don't PLEK it.

 

If however you are getting buzzing, you can either have the frets leveled by a skilled luthier or have it PLEK'd.

 

A high volume service will PLEK for $125. Fret leveling and dressing by hand should be less or about the same, even on the coasts. In Kalamazoo a fret level and dress is $40-50.

 

Factory PLEKing makes sense for major manufacturers like G&L. I'll bet it costs them $25 per guitar, saves some employee time, gets the job done and has marketing appeal.

 

Smaller shops have to charge more because they pay rent for the PLEK machines often, and they are expensive. They also tend to promote PLEKing for the profit margin and sizzle.

 

It does strike me as ironic that a Heritage would get PLEK'd. The Heritage factory is seen as old school, old tech with hand made goodness. Heritage once had a PLEK machine and found it not worthwhile. Also, consider that the best boutique builders don't PLEK.

 

And here's another thought. Is it really desirable to have the action extremely low? For lightening legato, possibly. For blues, jazz, country- not really.

 

My bottom line on PLEKing is that it has a place. If you don't have access to a skilled fret leveler/dresser who will do his/her filing in the context of the entire instrument set up, PLEK is the way to go. In many locations it makes good sense.

[MartyGrass]

I recently discovered a place in town that has a PLEK machine and I've seen the guy's work up close he's really good.

My H157 is relatively new to me but it has been reasonably well played over the years before I bought it and thought it would benefit greatly from a PLEK job. So, I dropped her off at the shop (Crossroads Guitar Shop) yesterday after work and the ETA is two weeks because word is spreading and this guy is getting loaded up with work fast. I've got other guitars to play so i guess it won't be too bad waiting a couple of weeks. I'm really looking forward to seeing the results.

 

Oh yea, and I almost forgot to mention that the shop is located right next to a small blues club restaurant place of some sort. I've never been there but now that I know it's there, I'm certainly going to check it out.

 

 

 

 

That is one of the finest tops I've seen!

[hinesarchtop]

WOW! Sweet guitar.

[H]

So, she's not sick, this is 'elective surgery'

[volhoo]

I had my 535 PLEK'd here in L.A. ($250) and it was well worth it. It plays great, was buzzing before.

 

What they do is this:

 

The guitar is stung up and tuned up, so the neck it under full stress and pressure. The guitar is then installed in the machine and scanned the first time. The read out shows them what adjustments to make on the truss rod to best bring the neck into optimal position. They may need to repeat this depending on how out of wack the guitar is. Another scan is done to confirm the neck position.

 

Then the guitar is scanned again (still stung up) to look at the frets. A read out shows them exactly where to shave and shape the frets and the CNC is set up to do the job.

 

I was also very hopeful to have the read out from all the data, but was told there was no way for the current software to export the imaging files, they did however save it for me on the machine (computer) and show it all to me (they knew I was bering interested in see it).

 

I am now completely sold on the PLEK process and recently had my Martin D-17 done there as well.

 

On a side note, I saw James Taylor in there last time I was there (Westwood Music - cool little place).

 

-

[Blunote]

I wish the Gibson custom shop in Montana had plek'd my acoustic before sending it out. It's a model L4-a which is a less blingy J-185. Of all the guitars I've had, that one just couldn't be set up and played easily without buzz or dead notes.

 

I finally sent it back to the factory for warranty work. They didn't tell me what they do to fix the problem but I'm pretty sure it involved a fret level and dressing.

 

Plays well now, and is one of the sweetest sounding acoustics I've heard.

 

Had I not purchased this one new, it would have made sense to have it plek'd -or at least analyzed by a plek scan.

[smaj]

The PLEK machine looks at fret heights and string vibration. The goal is to get the lowest action possible without buzzing.

 

To get your money's worth you need to first decide what string you're going to use on the guitar. If you don't know or you may make a significant change, don't PLEK it.

 

The next question is how hard are you going to play the strings. Loud strumming vs. softer picking makes a difference. If you don't know, don't PLEK it.

 

Then you set up the guitar. If you can achieve a good feel without buzzing, don't PLEK it.

 

If however you are getting buzzing, you can either have the frets leveled by a skilled luthier or have it PLEK'd.

 

A high volume service will PLEK for $125. Fret leveling and dressing by hand should be less or about the same, even on the coasts. In Kalamazoo a fret level and dress is $40-50.

 

Factory PLEKing makes sense for major manufacturers like G&L. I'll bet it costs them $25 per guitar, saves some employee time, gets the job done and has marketing appeal.

 

Smaller shops have to charge more because they pay rent for the PLEK machines often, and they are expensive. They also tend to promote PLEKing for the profit margin and sizzle.

 

It does strike me as ironic that a Heritage would get PLEK'd. The Heritage factory is seen as old school, old tech with hand made goodness. Heritage once had a PLEK machine and found it not worthwhile. Also, consider that the best boutique builders don't PLEK.

 

And here's another thought. Is it really desirable to have the action extremely low? For lightening legato, possibly. For blues, jazz, country- not really.

 

My bottom line on PLEKing is that it has a place. If you don't have access to a skilled fret leveler/dresser who will do his/her filing in the context of the entire instrument set up, PLEK is the way to go. In many locations it makes good sense.

I could not agree more, my action is medium high on my guitars. I like to dig into it.

[pressure]

After I plecked my first guitar and played it I had all my guitars pleked. You will love it.

[davesultra]

I could not agree more, my action is medium high on my guitars. I like to dig into it.

I also like mine at med/high. Sometimes ya' just gotta' get in there and dig!!

[HANGAR18]

Thank you to all who complimented the appearance of this guitar. hfan has one like it too.

[HANGAR18]

The PLEK machine looks at fret heights and string vibration. The goal is to get the lowest action possible without buzzing.

 

To get your money's worth you need to first decide what string you're going to use on the guitar. If you don't know or you may make a significant change, don't PLEK it.

 

The next question is how hard are you going to play the strings. Loud strumming vs. softer picking makes a difference. If you don't know, don't PLEK it.

 

Then you set up the guitar. If you can achieve a good feel without buzzing, don't PLEK it.

 

If however you are getting buzzing, you can either have the frets leveled by a skilled luthier or have it PLEK'd.

 

It does strike me as ironic that a Heritage would get PLEK'd. The Heritage factory is seen as old school, old tech with hand made goodness. Heritage once had a PLEK machine and found it not worthwhile. Also, consider that the best boutique builders don't PLEK.

 

And here's another thought. Is it really desirable to have the action extremely low? For lightening legato, possibly. For blues, jazz, country- not really.

 

 

If I may politely respond to some of your points...

 

This Vince guy told me the story of how he gets players all the time who ask him to "get the strings as low as possible without buzzing". He then has one specific guitar set aside where the strings are ridiculously low (without buzzing) that he will then hand to the player and ask, "What do you think about that?" (Implying that the action is so low that the guitar is "unplayable" as he puts it.) With that in mind ahead of time, I asked him to get the strings to a very specific string height, which in this particular case, just happens to be VERY low, but I'm sure he could get it lower than I had asked for. In my case, the strings were already pretty low since I was the one who had performed the initial setup when I first received the guitar, but I was getting some buzzing on the G and B strings in places while the bridge and string height was correct at both E strings. Thus, I believe a PLEK (or fret dress) in this case is warranted.

 

When I play, I usually keep my wrist in one general area, bend my wrist and my picking hand does the moving. I say usually. My picking arm and hand are not usually very animated and I would describe my touch on the strings as being "light". So, no problem with the low string height. I even found the "unplayable" sample guitar to be quite playable. (But I still don't want my strings THAT low.)

 

As for Heritage and their PLEK machine, I was told a different story, or maybe it is the same story just told differently... Something about Heritage not wanting to pay the annual license/maintenance/subscription fee (or something to that effect) which comes with owning a PLEK machine. Doesn't matter to me either way and it ain't non-a-my-business, but I do prefer the idea of a computer performing this particular operation and leaving all the hand craftmanship stuff for other parts of the guitar.

[rockabilly69]

 

To get your money's worth you need to first decide what string you're going to use on the guitar. If you don't know or you may make a significant change, don't PLEK it.

 

The next question is how hard are you going to play the strings. Loud strumming vs. softer picking makes a difference. If you don't know, don't PLEK it.

 

Then you set up the guitar. If you can achieve a good feel without buzzing, don't PLEK it.

 

If however you are getting buzzing, you can either have the frets leveled by a skilled luthier or have it PLEK'd.

 

I agree with these statements as they agree with what I have found.

 

I wear out frets like most travelling salesman wear out tires, so the least

amount of fret leveling to get the job done is what I go with. I have a great

luthier in town who does all my fret work, and I prefer him over a PLEK.

But both of my new Martin guitars have been PLEK-ED and they play

great.

[HANGAR18]

I got the guitar back today and the action is simply amazing! Actually, what is better than amazing? Heavenly? Flawless? Perfect?

 

So here is the results report for those of you who were interested to know the technical details. Instead of print outs or screenshots of the before and after, I just shot a video with my phone while Vince described the play-by-play. [Note: The video starts out fuzzy but it clears up, so give it a chance.] He goes pretty fast but you can re-watch the video a few times to pick up on the fine details.

 

Also, here is what I learned today. Not all PLEK machines are the same. A normal PLEK machine like a "PLEK 1" or whatever will dress the frets without respect to what the neck will be shaped like when it is under tension from the strings. However, this machine is a PLEK PRO (said to be only one in use in the entire United States) and all the measurements are made while the guitar is tuned to pitch (yea, strings on and tuned). This ensures that when the frets are cut and dressed, they will be where they are supposed to be when the guitar is strung and tuned. This is supposed to be a whole lot better than simply PLEKing a neck by itself.

 

It also has the advantage of having the string height set precisely how high I want the strings to be. If having a neck to play as smooth as butter is the desired result, this neck plays as smooth as WARM butter. Part of the reason for that is that the frets were cut to match the radius of the bridge as closely as possible. Yes, the neck radius and the bridge were not the same and the fretboard varied in height too. Now, the distance between the strings and the frets is perfect to each other regardless of all other measurements.

 

PLEK PRO video showing the before and after results for my trans-black Heritage H157 which was serviced at http://www.crossroadsguitarshop.com/

Like I mentioned above, one of the guys there told me that they the only ones in the whole country who are using a PLEK PRO machine.

 

[HANGAR18]

[HANGAR18]

I had my 535 PLEK'd here in L.A. ($250) and it was well worth it. It plays great, was buzzing before.

 

What they do is this:

 

The guitar is stung up and tuned up, so the neck it under full stress and pressure. The guitar is then installed in the machine and scanned the first time. The read out shows them what adjustments to make on the truss rod to best bring the neck into optimal position. They may need to repeat this depending on how out of wack the guitar is. Another scan is done to confirm the neck position.

 

Then the guitar is scanned again (still stung up) to look at the frets. A read out shows them exactly where to shave and shape the frets and the CNC is set up to do the job.

 

I was also very hopeful to have the read out from all the data, but was told there was no way for the current software to export the imaging files, they did however save it for me on the machine (computer) and show it all to me (they knew I was bering interested in see it).

 

I am now completely sold on the PLEK process and recently had my Martin D-17 done there as well.

 

On a side note, I saw James Taylor in there last time I was there (Westwood Music - cool little place).

 

-

 

That sounds like what they did to my guitar. Scanning while strung and tuned to pitch.

[tbonesullivan]

The PLEK machine is an awesome tool. However like any tool it is only as good as the person using it. This is why Gibson Factory setups are often still terrible, even though they go on and on about their PLEK machine. I also really haven't seen any evidence that a Plek machine will do that much better of a job than a tech doing it the "old-fashioned" way.

 

the one thing the PLEK machine does incredibly well though is diagnosing playability issues, which it can do easily due to the scanning process.