Sweet 16 questions

[jimsoloway]

Can someone tell me what the tonal difference would be between two Sweet 16's, one with the wood tail piece and the other with the six finger tail piece? (all other factors being equal)

There's also one on eBay now that claims to be a custom Sweet 16 from the early 90's. It has a Venetian cutaway and yet another style of tail piece. Any thoughts on this one (other than it costs too much)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-BUILT-HERITIAGE-SWEET-16-ARCHTOP-/321250156928?pt=Guitar&hash=item4acc006180

 

[MartyGrass]

It also has a cupid's bow.

 

Pretty guitar but priced high.

 

The Venetian cutaway is much less labor intense to make. But obviously whoever ordered that cutaway was not trying to go cheap.

[Vanschoyck]

The tailpiece thing has lots of lore to it. I'm sure there will be a lot of opinions here. To my ears, all other things remaining equal, the tailpiece is not a sound issue but part of the style and aesthetic (looks.)

[MartyGrass]

I have strong opinions on the tailpiece!

 

The bail TP is prone to let string balls pop out. Gibson had the same inept design on their L5s. It's a fairly easy fix though.

 

That's my opinion.

 

I'll add one more thing. The finger tailpiece tends to lose the tension screws during shipping. They should be taped to secure them.

 

I don't think there is a sonic difference or any meaningful string tension benefit either way.

[DC Ron]

I have strong opinions on the tailpiece!

 

The bail TP is prone to let string balls pop out. Gibson had the same inept design on their L5s. It's a fairly easy fix though.

 

That's my opinion.

 

I'll add one more thing. The finger tailpiece tends to lose the tension screws during shipping. They should be taped to secure them.

 

I don't think there is a sonic difference or any meaningful string tension benefit either way.

+1 That's a nice looking sweet sixteen in the eBay ad:

[Gitfiddler]

Can someone tell me what the tonal difference would be between two Sweet 16's, one with the wood tail piece and the other with the six finger tail piece? (all other factors being equal)

 

There's also one on eBay now that claims to be a custom Sweet 16 from the early 90's. It has a Venetian cutaway and yet another style of tail piece. Any thoughts on this one (other than it costs too much)?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUSTOM-BUILT-HERITIAGE-SWEET-16-ARCHTOP-/321250156928?pt=Guitar&hash=item4acc006180

 

 

Jim~ I consider you the archtop expert, sir. But based on my two 575's, one with a six finger tailpiece and the other with a bail tail, I can hear no difference. The only difference is the string tension created by the adjustable six finger tailpiece.

[tsp17]

I have strong opinions on the tailpiece!

 

The bail TP is prone to let string balls pop out. Gibson had the same inept design on their L5s. It's a fairly easy fix though.

 

 

Mark- other than a different tailpiece, what's the fix? i've got this issue on my 576. i wouldn't mind a different tailpiece, just hate to drill new holes into such a great guitar.

[Ned]

I would surmise that tone starts at the bridge. There are lots more important factors working on the top: bracing, thickness, tap tuning, etc. there may be something to overall string length and tension at pitch, but again, I expect you know far more than I on this topic.

 

The wooden tailpiece that you asked about elsewhere has some substantial mass which may serve to dampen some sympathetic vibrations or harmonics. My dog might be able to hear it.

 

I bet they are both fun guitars that would sound great in your hands.

[H]

My dog might be able to hear it.

 

We have one or two forum members with 'dog-hearing'

[MartyGrass]

Mark- other than a different tailpiece, what's the fix? i've got this issue on my 576. i wouldn't mind a different tailpiece, just hate to drill new holes into such a great guitar.

 

Pete Moreno uses a drill to create a recess, like a claw almost, that retains the ball.

 

This topic came up when I was at Pete's complaining about flying strings on a Super Eagle of mine. Another old Gibson luthier was there. Both he and Pete talked about the stupid design of the TP and how Gibson never paid attention to the advice the employees gave on how to fix this. It would have required a small change in design or a modification that took 10 minutes. Either way it added cost.

[tsp17]

Pete Moreno uses a drill to create a recess, like a claw almost, that retains the ball.

 

This topic came up when I was at Pete's complaining about flying strings on a Super Eagle of mine. Another old Gibson luthier was there. Both he and Pete talked about the stupid design of the TP and how Gibson never paid attention to the advice the employees gave on how to fix this. It would have required a small change in design or a modification that took 10 minutes. Either way it added cost.

Thank you