Fender DRRI vs 64 DR

[JeffB]

Had the opportunity to try a 64 DR, a DRRI'65 (new) and a DRRI '65 (used) today. All stock standard.

 

Lined them up full of expectation and preconceived ideas.

 

They are different. Thats about it. Couldnt decide on which was best.

 

The 64 had a slightly softer attack but a deeper bottom end. Speaker probably responsible for that.

The new and used DRRI's more prominent mids an a tighter bottom end. Again could be a function of the speaker.

The used DRRI seemed to have a sweeter top end not as tight bottom end as the new DRRI. It was soother all round but didnt have the depth of bottom end that the 64 had.

The reverb on the 64 seemed smoother than the DRRI. I dont know if thats a big deal to me.

 

Another guy that was watching on as I went through them made a comment that made me stop to think a little.

He said "well thats all they had back then. We are so spoilt for good gear now". Hes an older guy and has always gigged.

It only an opinion but interesting to me because he probably owned or used most of this stuff when I was still trying to figure out what legs were for.

 

I thought if I had to choose my heart would go for the 64 but my head would go with the DRRI '65. My head controls the wallet.

 

I used a American Vintage Series 65 Strat. Cool guitar. I really like the pick ups and neck profile. I liked the strat more than the amps.

 

I had a similar experience with an old Princeton and the new PRRI.

 

I guess one day one of these things will jump out at me and I will have to take it. Dodged it today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blunote]

If I recall rightly, Fender provides a life time warranty to the original purchaser so that's one thing the new DRRI has going for it.

 

But, given a choice, I'm biased towards a P2P wired amp like the original '64 you played. They're proven, simple, infinitely serviceable, and generally sound better than the reissues. I have a '65 clone that Brian built that apart from needing a tube, has never let me down. OTOH, I've had to have PC boards repaired on modern amps.

 

Get yourself a couple of good (perhaps expensive) vintage or vintage-cloned amps and hang on to them for life.

[58super]

There are still a lot of silver faced princetons and deluxes out there for close to the same price as a new reissue.

I'd take a handwired amp over a pcb amp.

[JeffB]

I probably wouldnt buy one. I do like a DR set to 5-7 on the volume but Ive had a DRRI set amongst my own amps and didnt feel like it was far enough away from what I already have to justify having one.

 

 

I would like to walk into a room full of DRs from the 60's and check out the variables from one to another.

Today I had fun killing 1/2 an hour satisfying my own curiosity with the specimens available. Thats about all.

 

Pretty intrigued by the 65 Strats pickups more than anything else tbh. Well, that and wondering what the results of swapping speakers amongst the three amps. Wont be allowed to do that though.

 

As far as PCB v p2p goes I dont really buy into it too much either way. I have both.

[DetroitBlues]

I really like the idea of the new 68 Deluxe Reverb... They put the reverb and tremolo on both channels, removed the bright cap, and changed the tone stack on the first channel to a Bassman circuit....

[yoslate]

I've posted before, about the DRRI I snagged from knopfler. Intended to flip it. Made the "mistake" of taking it out for a spin. Clearly does not sound like an original blackface. But stock, it sounded intriguing enough, and I got a good enough deal on it (thanks, Matt!) that I decided to monkey with it. Bright cap, gone; new speaker (Eminence Tonker); audio taper volume pot; biasing; a really nice old stock Sylvania 12AX7 in V2 (as suggested by Kuz); and a mid-boost knob installed in the extension speaker jack, on the rear panel. Sounds even less like a vintage DR, but...it's just a killer box for blues and rock & roll, especially...and at mercifully less than stupid volume! Not finished yet.... Going to cook up some other stuff with my amp wizard (trannies?), as I still have less in it than a new one would set me back.

[Guest HRB853370]

Had the opportunity to try a 64 DR, a DRRI'65 (new) and a DRRI '65 (used) today. All stock standard.

 

Lined them up full of expectation and preconceived ideas.

 

They are different. Thats about it. Couldnt decide on which was best.

 

The 64 had a slightly softer attack but a deeper bottom end. Speaker probably responsible for that.

The new and used DRRI's more prominent mids an a tighter bottom end. Again could be a function of the speaker.

The used DRRI seemed to have a sweeter top end not as tight bottom end as the new DRRI. It was soother all round but didnt have the depth of bottom end that the 64 had.

The reverb on the 64 seemed smoother than the DRRI. I dont know if thats a big deal to me.

 

Another guy that was watching on as I went through them made a comment that made me stop to think a little.

He said "well thats all they had back then. We are so spoilt for good gear now". Hes an older guy and has always gigged.

It only an opinion but interesting to me because he probably owned or used most of this stuff when I was still trying to figure out what legs were for.

 

I thought if I had to choose my heart would go for the 64 but my head would go with the DRRI '65. My head controls the wallet.

 

I used a American Vintage Series 65 Strat. Cool guitar. I really like the pick ups and neck profile. I liked the strat more than the amps.

 

I had a similar experience with an old Princeton and the new PRRI.

 

I guess one day one of these things will jump out at me and I will have to take it. Dodged it today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that review Jeff. I always wondered how a "real" DR would compare to the PCB RI DR.

[Guest HRB853370]

I really like the idea of the new 68 Deluxe Reverb... They put the reverb and tremolo on both channels, removed the bright cap, and changed the tone stack on the first channel to a Bassman circuit....

 

 

I've posted before, about the DRRI I snagged from knopfler. Intended to flip it. Made the "mistake" of taking it out for a spin. Clearly does not sound like an original blackface. But stock, it sounded intriguing enough, and I got a good enough deal on it (thanks, Matt!) that I decided to monkey with it. Bright cap, gone; new speaker (Eminence Tonker); audio taper volume pot; biasing; a really nice old stock Sylvania 12AX7 in V2 (as suggested by Kuz); and a mid-boost knob installed in the extension speaker jack, on the rear panel. Sounds even less like a vintage DR, but...it's just a killer box for blues and rock & roll, especially...and at mercifully less than stupid volume! Not finished yet.... Going to cook up some other stuff with my amp wizard (trannies?), as I still have less in it than a new one would set me back.

What is the bright cap and what does it do?

[schundog]

Thanks for the review, Jeff. It's interesting to hear your point of view. I have a DRRI that I think sounds very good, but I always wonder about the vintage ones. People always say "Oh, you can get an original for nearly what a new DRRI costs, and it's so much better!" Well, I already HAVE the DRRI, and only paid about $600 for it, so I doubt I could find an "original" that has been PROPERLY MAINTAINED, ie caps, etc. for that kind of scratch. I like and respect both Kuz and Rockabilly69's opinions on their vintage stuff, and believe they know what they are talking about, but your analysis, added to the opinion of fellow DRRI owner and tone guru Yoslate make me believe that the DRRI can hold it's own. I may try some of the tube experiments that have been discussed, and may do a speaker swap at some point in the future, but for now, mine just has the reverb on both sides and the first 12AX7 pulled. Sounds great to me, even without any pedals.

 

PTP VS Handwired is an argument I'm tired of having. I have both, too. If my PTP take a crap (not necessarily going to happen in my playing life) I'll replace them or move on. YMMV.

[t0aj15]

I really like the idea of the new 68 Deluxe Reverb... They put the reverb and tremolo on both channels, removed the bright cap, and changed the tone stack on the first channel to a Bassman circuit....

I would probably agree with this choice the most. The reason being that after buying the most feature laden amp Fender has ever made (Super Sonic 100) one of...if not THE most favorite...feature is the ability to switch between a Showman(Twin) tone or a Bassman tone. All the other features play a large part in making this my favorite amp in 45+ yrs of playing but to be able to switch between the Showman/Bassman AND having a highly versatile dirt channel to choose from make this amp my favorite.....not to mention it has dramatically reduced the size of my rig.

[JeffB]

The problem with my comparison was it was only one original DR sitting amongst three DRRI's and I only used two. The other DRRI had an alnico speaker an sounds better than the two DRRI I used. That is, I think it sounds better.

Ive tried a couple of other 60's DR's before but never had the opportunity to compare them this way. From memory they sounded alright, but thats all I have.

Its kind of a limited shoot out.

All I got out of it was, they sound different. None of them sounded bad.

By the time Ive banged a Boss tuner, some cheap danelectro pedals, a Rat and a line6 delay in front of them none of it is going to matter anyway.

 

I cant sell my Mesa Lone Star. It keeps coming back. Ive traded it twice. Theres some almost, not quite, no one would know in a smokey bar similarities with a Deluxe Reverb if you turn the dials right. The bottom end and bass response reminds me a bit of the 64 Deluxe Reverb.

There are no more smokey bars I just realised.

[H]

You could AB the speakers with a 2m extension cable (female to male) for the speakers as long as they are all the same ohm rating.

[JeffB]

You could AB the speakers with a 2m extension cable (female to male) for the speakers as long as they are all the same ohm rating.

Yeah I could and no I couldnt. Its work. Dont want to give the impression I just loaf around satisfying my own curiosity all day

I did take time to line things up in a half arsed arrangement and snap a pic.

The cream DRRI with the Alnico speaker wins for me btw. I did satisfy that urge. All in the name of selfless research of course.

 

[tsp17]

I know of what you speak, brother JeffB.

 

A few months ago i was killing time trying different amps at a local shop and played a mid 60's BF DR. Someone had given it a heinous cosmetic makeover, but it was truly glorious. Tone that filled your heart and seduced you closer, like a siren luring you to the rocks of destruction. Still feeling it in my soul. I escaped that encounter, wallet and sanity in tact, but it was a close call. Cant wait to do it again...

[Kuz]

Thanks for the review, Jeff. It's interesting to hear your point of view. I have a DRRI that I think sounds very good, but I always wonder about the vintage ones. People always say "Oh, you can get an original for nearly what a new DRRI costs, and it's so much better!" Well, I already HAVE the DRRI, and only paid about $600 for it, so I doubt I could find an "original" that has been PROPERLY MAINTAINED, ie caps, etc. for that kind of scratch. I like and respect both Kuz and Rockabilly69's opinions on their vintage stuff, and believe they know what they are talking about, but your analysis, added to the opinion of fellow DRRI owner and tone guru Yoslate make me believe that the DRRI can hold it's own. I may try some of the tube experiments that have been discussed, and may do a speaker swap at some point in the future, but for now, mine just has the reverb on both sides and the first 12AX7 pulled. Sounds great to me, even without any pedals.

 

PTP VS Handwired is an argument I'm tired of having. I have both, too. If my PTP take a crap (not necessarily going to happen in my playing life) I'll replace them or move on. YMMV.

 

The comparison, where worthy of reporting, just is not apples to apples. Different speakers, different preamp tubes, different power tubes.... Really hard to compare these 3 amps.

 

When Rob came over in August, we used a jumper to connect different speakers for both amps, and swapped out the preamp tubes so both amps were essentially running at the same specs.

 

With different tubes & speakers, a comparison would be like comparing a 535 to 150 and saying they both sounded kind of close. Just my opinion.

[JeffB]

I tried to slip as many obvious disclaimers in to my posts as I could.

 

I reckon they're both apples. Just different tasting apples. Ones a bit softer and fruitier but kinda sweet. The other is crispy and has a tang but is still kinda sweet.

 

I would eat both if I liked them apples.

[H]

Eat a peach instead

[JohnCovach]

These kinds of comparisons are very interesting. I have a couple of faithfully restored Fender heads that I play through faithfully restored Fender bottoms with boutique speakers. I like to believe I'm getting the vintage sound but the truth is probably that there's no such thing--or at least, no way to really know. I had a blackface Deluxe Reverb back in the early 70s when most of us thought it was just an old amp. I ended up selling it to get a new Ampeg V4. I wish I still had that DR!!! (The Ampeg not so much.)

[rockabilly69]

The '64 must have dog, and many are if they aren't maintained, but my '64 is so much better sounding than a DRRI that you would have to be deaf not to hear the difference. Can a new DR sound good, yes, they can be tweaked, starting with the speaker and better tubes, but no, they will not sound like an original. Much of it has to do with the original trannies they used. There are some pretty good replacements trannies here... http://www.classictone.net/Fender-20W-Deluxe-Reverb-Style-Transformers.html But then you still have to deal with board mounted tube sockets and pots directly soldered to circuit boards and such, I'll pass. Here's some good info comparing the two... http://aga.rru.com/Events/MM-DRRI-rebuild/

 

My buddy Troy and I have put our blackfaces right nest to DRRIs enough times to hear the difference.

 

 

BTW Fender amp warranties are only 5 years, which is good, but not lifetime. I'd rather have an amp that actually will last a lifetime or two!

 

　

FENDER® ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS

TRANSFERABLE 5-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY (U.S.A. and Canada)

Fender Musical Instruments Corporation ("FMIC") warrants that the Fender product you have purchased shall be free of any defects in parts and workmanship if used under normal operating conditions for a period of five (5) years from the date of purchase or initial lease, except that footswitches, covers, speakers, rechargeable batteries, cabinets, handles and cabinet hardware are warranted for a period of one (1) year from date of purchase or initial lease and light bulbs, vacuum tubes, meters, cables and all other included accessory products are warranted for a period of ninety (90) days from date of purchase or initial lease.

[tsp17]

The '64 must have dog, and many are if they aren't maintained, but my '64 is so much better sounding than a DRRI that you would have to be deaf not to hear the difference. Can a new DR sound good, yes, they can be tweaked, starting with the speaker and better tubes, but no, they will not sound like an original.

 

 

I have to agree here. Nothing sounds like a mid 60's BF DR. The DRRIs can be very very good, and they approximate the vibe, but ...

[JeffB]

Not sure if people are understanding what Ive written.

[Kuz]

Jeff, I do understand what you have written and I, for one, appreciate your post. But just don't understand how it is comparing amps (apples to apples). If a different speaker and preamp tubes were used for each amp.... Then you are comparing different tones that each amp made with it's own speaker & preamp tubes, but you weren't comparing each amp directly.

 

Maybe that was your point... To compare the basic tones of each amp on their own, but not to compare each amp against each other.

[JeffB]

Kuz wrote:

"Maybe that was your point... To compare the basic tones of each amp on their own, but not to compare each amp against each other".

 

John, you might be right.

 

 

 

Anyway, heres a condensed version of the key points in each of my posts so far.

Had the opportunity to try a 64 DR, a DRRI'65 (new) and a DRRI '65 (used) today. All stock standard.

 

They are different. Thats about it.

 

 

I used a American Vintage Series 65 Strat. Cool guitar. I really like the pick ups and neck profile. I liked the strat more than the amps.

 

 

 

I would like to walk into a room full of DRs from the 60's and check out the variables from one to another.

 

Today I had fun killing 1/2 an hour satisfying my own curiosity with the specimens available. Thats about all.

 

Pretty intrigued by the 65 Strats pickups more than anything else tbh.

 

 

 

The problem with my comparison was it was only one original DR sitting amongst three DRRI's and I only used two.

 

 

Ive tried a couple of other 60's DR's before but never had the opportunity to compare them this way. From memory they sounded alright, but thats all I have.

 

Its kind of a limited shoot out.

 

All I got out of it was, they sound different. None of them sounded bad.

 

 

I reckon they're both apples. Just different tasting apples.

 

 

I would eat both apples "if" I liked them apples.

 

I dont think I stated anywhere that they sounded the same.

 

I said I liked the Alnico equiped DRRI better than any of them. But I also made it quite obvious that I wasnt really fussed about any of them.

Made it perfectly clear that the AV Series guitar intrigued me more than anything else.

 

I wasnt splitting hairs about things.

I was simply trying to get agreeable sounds(to me) out of these amps.

Some of you may think that this amp comparison is a bazaar comparison and others might think its a ligit comparison.

To me it was just a quick comparison with what was available.

Both sounded like fenders to me. Ive owned a few different models from fender and used different model fenders in supplied back lines.

They generally have a fenderness about them.

I only care about how things sound and feel to "me". Im not taking any point of view other than my own.

Im not interested in disputing anyone here's own personal findings. You know what you like.

I may be silly but Im not stupid. (open to debate)

The 64 is not by any stretch a "dog".

It was just a quick play through during the course of my usual work day. That was all.

I think some read too much into what I said.

 

I think you are all nuts and the HOC is a big jar. I like it.

[peterbright]

Changed the tubes and put in a Weber and my DRRI is golden...it's not for sale.

[schundog]

peterbright, please tell us what tube complement and Weber speaker you chose. Tubes are probably next up for a change in mine.