An Interesting Comparison between "Real Deal" Tube Amp and Mustang III

[les paulverizer]

Hi JeffB, thank you so much, yeah great to be back! I've been busy with life, projects and stuff and had little or no time for forums but now....I ain't going anywhere!

This is a nice place to be indeed...

[JAM]

Coming to the discussion late, but here's my thoughts...

 

Mfgrs. make SS amps which emulate Tube Amps... but I've yet to see a Tube Amp designed to emulate a SS Amp... hmmmmmm....

 

Like CD vs. LP, the issue with these modeling Amps is that engineers average all the results... in fact, they average the averages. This tends to produce a 'sterile' sound.

 

They may invoke the Tone of a TR, a JCM800, Vox AC30, etc. But, if presented side-by-side (even in this video)... NO CONTEST.

 

When did people substitute equipment for the player in producing 'the sound' anyway..??

 

I get all the spend $800 and get $4,000 worth of amp deal... great for the Living Rm. player. But, have you ever seen a ranked player rely soley on the amp to produce 'their' sound?

 

Then, there's the 'dirty little secret'... 'the 800lb. Gorilla in the Room' that no one talks about... namely that SS amps, given current Labor costs, are essentially unrepairable.

 

Fry a transistor or such, and the amp becomes a Boat Anchor in that it will cost much more to fix it than the amp is worth... why do you think they're made in China or Indonesia ..??

 

A point-to-point, hand-wired, tube amp can go on forever !

 

Some of the old Fender Tweeds are approaching 70 years old and can still be made like new... yet a SS amp you bought 5 years ago becomes Landfill once the 1st component fails.

 

I get that we now live in a disposable society... that planned obsolescance is good.

 

But don't try to sell me on the merits of the SS Amp, because from where I sit, there aren't many worth discussing.

 

Cheers!

 

Jim

[schundog]

Coming to the discussion late, but here's my thoughts...

 

Mfgrs. make SS amps which emulate Tube Amps... but I've yet to see a Tube Amp designed to emulate a SS Amp... hmmmmmm....

 

Like CD vs. LP, the issue with these modeling Amps is that engineers average all the results... in fact, they average the averages. This tends to produce a 'sterile' sound.

 

They may invoke the Tone of a TR, a JCM800, Vox AC30, etc. But, if presented side-by-side (even in this video)... NO CONTEST.

 

When did people substitute equipment for the player in producing 'the sound' anyway..??

 

I get all the spend $800 and get $4,000 worth of amp deal... great for the Living Rm. player. But, have you ever seen a ranked player rely soley on the amp to produce 'their' sound?

 

Then, there's the 'dirty little secret'... 'the 800lb. Gorilla in the Room' that no one talks about... namely that SS amps, given current Labor costs, are essentially unrepairable.

 

Fry a transistor or such, and the amp becomes a Boat Anchor in that it will cost much more to fix it than the amp is worth... why do you think they're made in China or Indonesia ..??

 

A point-to-point, hand-wired, tube amp can go on forever !

 

Some of the old Fender Tweeds are approaching 70 years old and can still be made like new... yet a SS amp you bought 5 years ago becomes Landfill once the 1st component fails.

 

I get that we now live in a disposable society... that planned obsolescance is good.

 

But don't try to sell me on the merits of the SS Amp, because from where I sit, there aren't many worth discussing.

 

Cheers!

 

Jim

Thanks for chiming in, Jim; So I guess my offer of trading you my Mustang III for your beautiful newly acquired Princeton Reverb won't be accepted?! haha. Have fun with that thing.

 

I don't disagree with some of your points, particularly that the old PTP amps have much greater longevity. I have a PTP Fender clone, my KBP810 Tweed Deluxe clone, and it's awesome! More tube amps than digital stuff here, for sure, but I'm satisfied with both for different reasons. First off, you said $800 for $4000 worth of amps. In reality, you can probably pick up a used Mustang III right now for around $150-200. That's pretty darn cheap for something that does everything that it does. Will I use it on my next album or World Tour?! Um, no, because I'm a hobbyist, as are most of us, that just wants to get some good tone at WHATEVER VOLUME I can. What I find is that I don't have any problem getting great tone from my tube amps, as long as I can play them as loud as I want to. I usually can't, as I have to co-exist with my family! And I don't particularly like the tone of the little Vox tube amp, or it's ilk; The small speakers in them make them sound like a transistor AM radio to me. The modelling stuff, for me, pays for itself in it's ability to sound good at conversation level volume.

 

I'm not trying to sell you on the merits of modelling; I have no skin in the game. I'm just sharing what has worked for me, someone who has enjoyed playing with/owning both sides of the coin. If you are basing your disdain of these types of amps on any experience older than 3 or 4 years, you might want to give a current model a listen, in person. It's not a beautiful looking/sounding vintage Fender/Marshall/Vox/Gibson amp, but they are dirt cheap and the sonic possibilities are endless for a hobbyist hack like me.

 

Edit to add; Yes, they probably are unrepairable. Throw it away when it breaks. Go buy another one for $200. I don't see too many TV repair shops around anymore, either. Technology is advancing so fast that the next generation is better than what you had that is now broken. My .02.

[JeffB]

Pete Anderson used Line6 modeling amps on Dwight Yoakams best selling albums back in 1991. Admittedly he had a pretty awesome studio and board at his disposal. Also a great set of ears and fingers I guess.

Jeff Beck used line6 gear on one of his last three or four albums. Cant remember which album exactly. Ears, fingers.

 

I dont know what they toured with but Im guessing the usual fenders and marshalls.

[yoslate]

Hey les paulverizer, been a long time between posts. Wondered where you had got to.

 

As Lazarus, raised from the dead.... Was wondering about your whereabouts just the other day, Guy! Welcome back! Hope you'll chime in at least semi-regularly. Trust all's well with you!

[bluwoodsman]

He's comparing a Blues Jr and with a "280 Watt" GK???? Seems to me there's some, er, bias, here.

 

 

Can't disagree, I just don't have much experience with solid state that thought came close to the "warm" tube sound of a good tube amp. I almost bought a Roland JC when I bought my boogie in the 80's, and do admit to liking it! Couldnt get the sound I liked when driven though, and even in those days when weight wasn't a big consideration the JC was not something I wanted to cart around with all the moving I did back then. I bet you couldn't tell much difference in a youtube video comparing a JC with a good overdrive pedal and a good tube amp though.

[bolero]

I played an ugly POS traynor SS amp from their most reviled era, that sounded pretty awesome & ratty cranked to the 9's