Used heritage value,,, Wth!

[JeffB]

we had this discussion before and it depends on the model. Heritage holds it value just fine once you realize you are starting from a lower initial price with Heritage.

 

2014 L5 new is 8-9K used 5-6K it lost 3K 2014 Golden Eagle new 5K used 2.5K lost 2.5K

2014 R9 new is 5-6K used 3K lost 2 1/2-3K 2014 Custom 150 $2,500 used $1,800 lost 7 hundred.

 

You loose way more of your initial "investment" with a G.

 

I figure each of my Heritage guitars drops about $1,000 from it's cost new as long as they are desirable models with upgraded features and in excellent condition. However they are collectable tools not investments.

I dont know if your prices are correct or not and that isnt really the issue here. But...

If we, for argument sake, assume 2014 L5 @ $8000 new and resells @ $5000 that is about 37.5% loss in value. At $9000 down to $6000 is a loss in value of 33.33333333% and if we use the two extremes as values, $9000 with a resale of $5000 that is about 45% loss in value.

The 2014 Golden Eagle according to your numbers takes a hit of 50% loss in value.

 

I do understand where you are coming from in the dollars vs percentages but I.............my head exploded........... I deal in percentages

 

Over here a R8-R9 will lose 35-40%. All this is seller/buyer/market dependent of course but its close enough as an average.

An H150 isnt in the same market as an R8 or R9 to the general buyer. The H150 is a something else that is definitely not an R8.

Its mainly only someone that already has an H150 that will compare an H150 to an R8. I wouldnt myself.

 

Right now there is a Heritage dealer over here (that I have just found out about) that is doing less 33% off rrp for a brand new guitar. In doing so he has now set the new price which means any s/h Heritage over here bought prior to 2010 is now worth 35-40% of the original rrp (recommended retail price) and a Heritage bought after 2010 will have retained 50-55% of its value......if you can find a buyer.....so a seller after 6mths might sell at less just to move it.

The previous importer/distributor sold them at less 30% plus $1000 store credit and then in his final days of trading had them down to to less 50% and 60%

I have a feeling that the new seller may have bought the remaining stock at liquidation prices and is pricing them them to move.

I dont see them listed on Heritage Guitars website as a dealer so Im doubtful the guitars have serial numbers on them past 2008-9....Quite possibly 07.

 

Basically, a s/h Heritage over here has no real value so people who do like them, me, can pick them up paying just slightly more than a type of guitar that would make rockabilly69 want to punch a kitten.

It really is tragic, just over a year ago I could have bought a brand new(made in 07) H150 Gold Top w/P90's for $1200 and an H137 for $900.

A month later some one wanted to sell me the same H150 GT for $1499. I could still buy H150's new?(NOS) for $1200

 

Ok, most of this post has nothing to do with the thread but Ive been aching to vent for a long time about this.

[SouthpawGuy]

Slammer, sometimes you're really weird.

 

[SouthpawGuy]

Heritage is to Gibson

 

as

 

G&L is to Fender

 

And G&L suffer the same fate as far resale value goes.

[Kuz]

Heritage is to Gibson

 

as

 

G&L is to Fender

I never got this comparison, and Idon't think it is accurate. G&L guitars don't sound like vintage-style Fender guitars. It is debatable which sounds better, but a G&L doesn't sound like a vintage Fender style guitar.

 

Heritages DO sound like Gibsons.

 

I think what G&L did is what PRS did.... They both took a design and made it more comfortable, easier to play, and more modern sounding.

[Spectrum13]

I never got this comparison, and Idon't think it is accurate. G&L guitars don't sound like vintage-style Fender guitars. It is debatable which sounds better, but a G&L doesn't sound like a vintage Fender style guitar.

 

Heritages DO sound like Gibsons.

 

I think what G&L did is what PRS did.... They both took a design and made it more comfortable, easier to play, and more modern sounding.

Kuz, you are 100% correct in the product development however I think the comparison is that when Fender went CBS and Gibson went Nashville (big corporate) the spirit/ heritage (Leo / Orvile) was continued by G&L and Heritage... Same when Epiphone became Guild in 1953.

[gpuma]

I dont know if your prices are correct or not and that isnt really the issue here. But...

If we, for argument sake, assume 2014 L5 @ $8000 new and resells @ $5000 that is about 37.5% loss in value. At $9000 down to $6000 is a loss in value of 33.33333333% and if we use the two extremes as values, $9000 with a resale of $5000 that is about 45% loss in value.

The 2014 Golden Eagle according to your numbers takes a hit of 50% loss in value.

 

I do understand where you are coming from in the dollars vs percentages but I.............my head exploded........... I deal in percentages

 

 

I agree, to me it makes no sense to compare $ losses. Only % losses counts in an apple to apple comparison

[Gitfiddler]

The current down economy has only worsened resale on smaller guitar makers. Used Heritages seem to take a bigger hit than some others. More expensive instruments just remain unsold, if you check out Ebay or Gbase or your local guitar shop.

[barrymclark]

Not that i am complaining. But whats up with the low used value ? I know most people really dont know about heritage guitars. Thats a whole other sad thing. Has it always beem this way? Visited cream city music in milwaukee, and saw gibson vos models 5 6 7 grand!!!! Holy crap!!! Played a few and i was so happy that my heritage 150 ultra held its ground . If i blind folded you , you couldnt tell you were playing a 6,000$ vos or my used 1,500$ heritage. Thats when i started thinking ,,

What the hell!! How come heritage guitars are nothing. Then i checked out a few other high dollar hand made ones. Felt the same way with those also. I always take care of my guitars , but with the heritage guitars eventhow there one of the best out there, i dont have to worry to much about a scuff or dent , cause if i ever sell it , there seem to be not much value. There not a collectible guitar, wich is really sad. Will this evet change? I wave my heritage flag high !! Even though there not a clicky guitar.

I'd actually say this is the main contributing factor to Heritage's low used sales. Supply and demand. There are more used Heritage's on the market than willing buyers. Now I have seem times where there many a person looking for a specific model Heritage and the prices rose up as a result but, yeah. The Heritage faithful are few and the guitars are many. I just picked up an Eagle for $1500. That's just insane low. My very first Heritage, in the hands of Lance now, I picked up for just under $900 if memory serves and it was a upgraded top with triple pickups. Not even the weirdness of it kept me from losing a little on the sale. It just is, what it is. Now, if you had an A serial or a Centurion that would have people mortgaging their house or maxing cards to get among the faithful, then you'd be on to something. However, among the faithful, saying that a Heritage is a 'custom' will get you not a cent more on your sale. I see it all the time knowing full well these people think they got something. I have two Heritage 'custom' guitars. I also have two Heritage guitars.

[tbp0701]

high quality

Can you believe that 2015 will be their 30th anniversary already?

Yes, still the new guys on the block, relatively speaking as you mentioned.

 

It's surprising they've been around that long already. For the relatively recent comment, I was thinking that Heritage and PRS started around the same time, and I believe Hamer (RIP), G&L and Taylor were started only a short time earlier. (Now that I mention Taylor, I think Collings and Santa Cruz were started in the 70s as well). And I think they all had variations of the same idea: they would build guitars with the quality and attention to detail seen in vintage instruments but clearly missing at the time.

 

Of these, PRS and Taylor managed to become much larger and more recognized in general, to the point where PRS is now often mentioned as one of the three major electric brands, as Taylor is with acoustics. It'd be interesting to see how they managed that. I'll guess that part of it is Smith and Taylor are both excellent salesmen, which seems a rare trait among people who also have great design and technical skills.

[Kuz]

My point is that; I DO BELIEVE that a Heritage 555 is equal in quality, tone, & playability to a Custom Shop Historic 335. SO if you believe that, then you save over $2K in original investment. Right off the top you have saved $2K.

And worst case senerio if I sell, I am out approx. $500. I don't care about percentages because I save a hell of lot of money upfront!!!!!

 

Oh, and did I mention that I got that SAME 555 in MY color, with MY neck carve, with MY choice in hardware & pickups??!!!!

 

Imagine if someone asked to you that you have a choice; 1) Buy a $4500, great guitar, but you have no choice in pickups, color, or neck carve. OR 2) You can have an equally great guitar for $2400-2500, but you get to spec out the color, hardware, the WOOD (premium wood package), neck carve, and pickups??? NO BRAINER

 

To me that is an apples to apples comparison (your opinion my vary and that is fine).

[gpuma]

Kuz, it depends of what your objective is when you do the comparison.

 

If the object of your comparison is the overall value of H vs. G than you are spot on. I do not think anyone over here argues that H are not a much better deal than G. This is the HOC, for crying out loud!!!

 

But If the object of the comparison is the value retained in the used market then you need to use % otherwise you are not putting the two instruments on a level playing field. Along this dimension there is no question that G outperforms. Now, is that important? I don't think so and we probably all agree.

[Kuz]

Kuz, it depends of what your objective is when you do the comparison.

 

If the object of your comparison is the overall value of H vs. G than you are spot on. I do not think anyone over here argues that H are not a much better deal than G. This is the HOC, for crying out loud!!!

 

But If the object of the comparison is the value retained in the used market then you need to use % otherwise you are not putting the two instruments on a level playing field. Along this dimension there is no question that G outperforms. Now, is that important? I don't think so and we probably all agree.

 

Again, and my final comment and I won't post more on this topic, just a simple yes or no answer.... Q. Are you or are you not saving $2K on your initial purchase price when you buy a custom ordered Heritage with equal quality, tone, & playability and why aren't posters factoring this in analysis? (This is my point, sorry if I went overboard on this point)

[Guest HRB853370]

Slammer, sometimes you're really weird.

How so?

 

 

Sometimes?

Thats 3 in a row now Bill, going for a 4th maybe? Do you feel better now?

[DetroitBlues]

Only complain when you're selling... Never complain when buying.... I try to think of that when I'm buying. Sadly, it hasn't worked out too well for me... Unfortunatly, the wife has been taking notice lately...

[Spectrum13]

Only complain when you're selling... Never complain when buying.... I try to think of that when I'm buying. Sadly, it hasn't worked out too well for me... Unfortunatly, the wife has been taking notice lately...

Josh,

Do you want a moderator to prevent your wife from loggin?

[bolero]

well I think G&L guitars do sound like vintage Fender gtrs.....at least when they have alnico pups in them

 

the MFD pups are very different sounding

 

IMO

[Number8]

well I think G&L guitars do sound like vintage Fender gtrs.....at least when they have alnico pups in them

 

the MFD pups are very different sounding

 

IMO

 

You've got it Bolero. Gio and I were talking about this not long ago. It's as though Leo made some instruments that were intended to stay true to his namesake sound. In conjunction with that, he continued to innovate, as he was wont to do.

 

I love my ASATs. They're so much fun. I have a Bluesboy with a Seth Lover in the neck and then a ceramic in the bridge. The other has two MFDs and an S500 sandwiched between them with 7-way switching.

[gpuma]

Our #8 should be called #2

2 prospects

2 ASAT

2 Eagles (now gone)

 

see a pattern?

[schundog]

Our #8 should be called #2

2 prospects

2 ASAT

2 Eagles (now gone)

 

see a pattern?

 

He has also owned 2 H-137s. Now gone..... What's WRONG with that boy?!

[tdrommond]

I stumbled onto Heritage guitars by accident when a friend asked me to babysit one he'd inherited. It was a '94 Super Eagle Custom Order.

 

 

I learned all about it and when the owner offered to sell it, I pounced. Unfortunately, I never could get comfortable playing it. It was just too big for me. So, I sold it to a jazzhead friend that gigs it every weekend now. When I got the burn for an ES335, I came back to Heritage looking for the great guitar I had, in one I could hold for more than a few minutes without my arm going to sleep. The H535 aqnd H555 were on my search list.

 

I found a 2000 H535 for about $1000 less than the used Gibson ES335 Dot I found. The dot was a studio version and didn't come with a bound fretboard or hardshell case. The pups were not all that great and the overall fit and finish was a 7 at best. None of that was true for the Heritage and I could afford to buy it, rather than dream about a Gibson I couldn't.

 

 

When it's all said and done, I know I bought a 'player' not a 'collector' and that's exactly what I wanted. I'm so thankful that Heritages haven't been discovered by the collector crowd. I'd never have been able to justify one, otherwise. I hope that never changes. I can't afford my dream car or my dream home, but my Heritage is all I've ever dreamed a guitar could be. I can afford that and that's a really good thing.

 

A $3-6000 guitar would be lost on me. The Heritage is already punching way above my weight. It plays a lot better than I do. If I had wanted an 'investment' I would have put more in my 401k. It made 30% last year, but it doesn't make me grin like a 10-year old the way this H535 does. I don't look forward to getting home from work to play with my investment, either. Guitars are for the playing. Playing isn't investing. It's playing and playing is why the guitar was built to begin with.

 

I'm still not sure that all the guitar investors are really investors. They may just be victims of an overactive checkbook combined with never ending GAS. Wait a minute. I may be a guitar investor after all.

[Number8]

 

He has also owned 2 H-137s. Now gone..... What's WRONG with that boy?!

 

I almost had two Martins too but I found a nice little Dobro in lieu of the second Marty.

 

As for the 137s, I slightly regret selling the yellow one to you but the super customized one was imbalanced. I didn't like having to always hold on to the neck to keep it from flying up.

[Spectrum13]

.

 

 

 

I learned all about it and when the owner offered to sell it, I pounced. Unfortunately, I never could get comfortable playing it. It was just too big for me. So, I sold it to a jazzhead friend that gigs it every weekend now. When I got the burn for an ES335, I came back to Heritage looking for the great guitar I had, in one I could hold for more than a few minutes without my arm going to sleep. The H535 aqnd H555 were on my search list.

 

I found a 2000 H535 for about $1000 less than the used Gibson ES335 Dot I found. The dot was a studio version and didn't come with a bound fretboard or hardshell case. The pups were not all that great and the overall fit and finish was a 7 at best. None of that was true for the Heritage and I could afford to buy it, rather than dream about a Gibson I couldn't.

 

 

 

When it's all said and done, I know I bought a 'player' not a 'collector' and that's exactly what I wanted. I'm so thankful that Heritages haven't been discovered by the collector crowd. I'd never have been able to justify one, otherwise. I hope that never changes. I can't afford my dream car or my dream home, but my Heritage is all I've ever dreamed a guitar could be. I can afford that and that's a really good thing.

 

A $3-6000 guitar would be lost on me. The Heritage is already punching way above my weight. It plays a lot better than I do. If I had wanted an 'investment' I would have put more in my 401k. It made 30% last year, but it doesn't make me grin like a 10-year old the way this H535 does. I don't look forward to getting home from work to play with my investment, either. Guitars are for the playing. Playing isn't investing. It's playing and playing is why the guitar was built to begin with.

 

I'm still not sure that all the guitar investors are really investors. They may just be victims of an overactive checkbook combined with never ending GAS. Wait a minute. I may be a guitar investor after all.

Excellent post Norman!

The topic is used heritage value. A guitar is not a 401k however many of us attempt to rationalize this expendature as something it is not. If you are a working musician, ok you can write off a business expense. Most of us are buying a new toy. If you held on to your Lionel trains from the 50s that is one thing however forget about your 2002 R9 being worth $200k some day, the 1200 or so LP standard from 1958-60 was a once in a lifetime. What ever formula, resale value, % drop or amount spent, you are only making an attempt to justify an expendature on a new toy. Admit it, you love buying this stuff so shut up and play the snot out of it. Don't measure your love with dollars.

[gpuma]

 

He has also owned 2 H-137s. Now gone..... What's WRONG with that boy?!

You are right, I forgot about the 137.

nothing wrong, just an opportunity to bust his chops :-o

[Number8]

Bringing this back on topic: Of the seven Heritage guitars I have sold, I lost money on only one. I did not buy them to for resale value, I'm just saying that the used ones I bought definitely kept their value.

[TalismanRich]

I'm with Number8. I don't buy guitars because they retain their resale value, or on the hope that they will appreciate. I buy them to play, which I do. Let the kids worry about resale value when I'm gone.