This Thing Any Good?

[yoslate]

 

And it just may make an appearance at PSP this year.

 

I'd love to see a bunch of Fender combos at PSP, this year. I'm bringing my Deluxe re-ish (which has had a Major Overhaul) and my 5E3. Yoop, I'd love to hear this thing! Better still, put my Seth 535 through it. Bet it's a killer! Corn-grats on a funky box!

[schundog]

Fantastic Amp! Congrats, Yooper. While I like different flavors, too, Fender amps are my "Go To" Amps. I look forward to hearing it at PSP.

[slider313]

This Deluxe Reverb is an interesting relic. I've been learning some more about the amp. The "new speaker" replaces the mixed review Oxford. Perhaps it was blown. It turns out the replacement speaker is older than the amp itself. It's a Jensen C12 PS, built in "Sweet Home Chicago" back in 1967. I have yet to find a meaning for the "PS" designation. It's reported to have a power rating a "couple watts less than the 50 watt 'N' model", so that should suffice

 

 

 

The Jensen C12P is actually a 20 watt speaker with a 1.5 inch voice coil, paper coil former and 20 oz. magnet. The original C12N is a 25 watt speaker with a 28 oz. magnet, 1.5 inch voice coil and paper coil former. The new Italian made C12N is a 50 watt speaker with a 28.5 oz magnet, 1.5 inch voice coil, kapton coil former. The coil former protects the coil and dissipates heat; wattage = heat. I'm not sure what the "S" stands for but, I've read, it could be special magnet or cone request.

[Yooper]

 

The Jensen C12P is actually a 20 watt speaker with a 1.5 inch voice coil, paper coil former and 20 oz. magnet.

 

Interesting. Would this mean I shouldn't crank up the full 22 watts of volume? I can't foresee any need to go past 6 for most jams. Been up to 7 and that was over what I need to play with drums.

[slider313]

 

Interesting. Would this mean I shouldn't crank up the full 22 watts of volume? I can't foresee any need to go past 6 for most jams. Been up to 7 and that was over what I need to play with drums.

 

Actually, you're at 22 watts when you reach about 3-3.5 on the volume knob. It would be a concern and I, personally, wouldn't go past 4-5. Jensen was conservative with the ratings. At the time, a 20 watt speaker may be good for about 30 watts. The speaker is 47 years old. The paper coil former may be compromised and not be able to take the same amount of heat. If you blow the speaker there's a good chance you'll blow the output transformer also. I had two 1966 Jensen C12P's reconed by Weber with their 12W cone and requested a 50 watt voice coil. Something to consider.

[Yooper]

Slider,

 

Hmm. Guess I'll back off the loud jam levels and stick to jazz standards with my Eagle Classic. So it would be better to recone the Jensen with a 12 watt cone and 50 watt voice coil instead of replacing it?

 

I suppose I should take it to a pro before I get carried away with pushing it too loud. Pardon my ignorance, this is my first older PTP amp.

 

Your suggestions are much appreciated. Do you recommend any other questions or concerns for me to pass on to the repair guy?

 

I'd like to get this thing up to par for PSP.

[slider313]

Slider,

 

Hmm. Guess I'll back off the loud jam levels and stick to jazz standards with my Eagle Classic. So it would be better to recone the Jensen with a 12 watt cone and 50 watt voice coil instead of replacing it?

 

I suppose I should take it to a pro before I get carried away with pushing it too loud. Pardon my ignorance, this is my first older PTP amp.

 

Your suggestions are much appreciated. Do you recommend any other questions or concerns for me to pass on to the repair guy?

 

I'd like to get this thing up to par for PSP.

 

If you're not going to push the speaker, then leave it alone. A recone would cost $75 plus almost $20 each way to ship it. The 12W cone is the type of cone and not the wattage. Weber offers a few different cones for that frame as Jensen's came with a few different types over the years.

12F150

12F150-O

12F150B

12F150T

12F150A

12F150W

[Yooper]

As good as it sounds now, if some re-coning and/or other tweaks make this sound even better, then I'm going for it.

[slider313]

As good as it sounds now, if some re-coning and/or other tweaks make this sound even better, then I'm going for it.

 

The 12W cone with a 50 watt voice coil would be the way to go. Here's a shot of a '63 C12N Weber did for me with the standard, 8 ribbed pulp cone and 50 watt voice coil.

 

[Yooper]

Slider,

Is that re-coned Jensen in a DR or similar amp?

 

So the 50 watt voice coil would determine the power rating of the speaker to be 50 watts? And this would give it more headroom for cleaner sound before breakup? Or at least tolerate high volumes better? I do like the breakup as it is on Scarface.

 

I'm amazed at the options for these old amps.

 

So you see, I'm quite dense and uninformed here. Should you require information on Lake Superior,( formed by Mid-Continent Rift volcanic action, unlike the other glaciation formed Great Lakes) the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, WWII history, or the Grateful Dead, I'm your guy.

[slider313]

Yooper,

That C12N is currently in one of my 1965 Ampeg Reverberockets.

 

Think of it this way; wattage is heat and the voice coil will withstand up to 50 watts. This has nothing to do with clean headroom, which is really determined by the size of the magnet and the cone type. The 50 watt coil would have thicker wire, which would make it warmer sounding than the exact same speaker sporting a 25 watt coil. If we recone both speakers with the same cone and 50 watt voice coil, the C12P's smaller magnet will produce earlier break-up when compared to the C12N.

[Yooper]

Great info. This better prepares me for a visit with the amp doc. I'd never have considered a recone would be preferable to a new speaker. Jensen must have done something right back then.

 

Thanks again.

[slider313]

Yooper,

 

If Kokomo, IN isn't that far from you, you could save the shipping costs on the recone @ Weber.

[Yooper]

Kokomo is just under 4 hours away. It would be cheaper to ship, but I hear Kokomo is beautiful this time of year, especially for eager new owners of battered Deluxe Reverbs.

 

I suppose that should be taken care of before any tube replacement or other repairs.

[slider313]

If the amp has never been serviced, then a cap job is over due. The electrolytic caps are 41 years old and fresh ones are needed. You can swap tubes and speakers, after that's done, to fine tune it.

[Yooper]

The seller has offered a "fairly new" Jensen C12K instead of the C12PS. Trouble is, I don't know how that would sound in comparison. I'm guessing tweaking the old one would be the better choice.

[slider313]

I would take the C12P over the new C12K every day of the week.

[rockabilly69]

I would take the C12P over the new C12K every day of the week.

Me too!

[Yooper]

I would take the C12P over the new C12K every day of the week.

This is what I love about this community. There's no better place for feedback and advice than the HOC. Thanks very much for all your support, guys!

 

I understand, and feel more confident, about this combo of old amp and an even older speaker now.

 

Time to pull the trigger.

[bolero]

yeehaw!

[randy2270]

If you were considering a replacement grill cover parts express has some good stuff.

 

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-grill-cloth-fabric/319

[Yooper]

Thanks, Randy.

 

I'm still undecided about that. It would make sense to have a better dust/debris filter. I'll consider this after I get the rest of it up to par.