Heritage... Gibsons bastard son...

[Thundersteel]

Kinda the same reason I ride a Victory motorcycle, and not an HD.

 

 

That's why my brother rides one! I'd like to get one as well, but I'm too chicken sh!t to ride one in traffic.

 

I always prefer the underdog; they usually have better quality at a fair price: Heritage--Victory--G&L...etc...

[gopeteygo]

That's why my brother rides one! I'd like to get one as well, but I'm too chicken sh!t to ride one in traffic.

 

I always prefer the underdog; they usually have better quality at a fair price: Heritage--Victory--G&L...etc...

 

I can't say I blame ya!  There are more idiots on the road per capita than ever before!

[fxdx99]

Cosmic - you hit gold with this thread... most post velocity here in a long time    ;D

 

Good discussion, insightful comments.   Given the location, the guy was probably wearing a Triumph shirt, tho  

 

No new ideas on my end - I think that when the guys started in 1985 that they had GUTS to start this venture and (as if this group needed one more accolade to like Heritage) they should be admired to take that step.  1985 was not a prime time to do a start up american guitar company - market was soft, foreign competition strong -  it's actually pretty amazing that they've made it for 23 years.

 

The concepts that folks have posted on branding ring true to me.  Branding is huge and the marketing aspect of Heritage is one that isn't obvious to most.  You have to have been around a bit and dig to find 'em - that experience factor that was mentioned.  I'm fortunate enough to have taken the tour and it's great and really makes a connection.  In my self-appointed mission to convert all non-Heritage guitar players over, I usually include the "you know the 59 burst that (insert fav guit player here) uses?  - Heritages are made on the SAME EQUIPMENT that made that guitar, in the SAME BUILDING, and by some of the SAME HANDS.  The Heritage guys WERE Gibson in the 50/60s."  

 

If Harley had moved all ops from Milwaukee to Pennsylvania when assembly went, but if Willie had stayed back, bought the building/equip and started making 'The Story' motorcycles... would we see 'The Story' tatoos in Sturgis every year?  I'd bet not... the Harley brand is also too strong to displace - it's just ubiquitous

 

It's understandable why the general populace doesn't get it... that's what the HOC is for - we're the 'street marketers'.  Don't give up easily, folks.  The story is true, it's not made up internet chatter.

[brentrocks]

  I'd like to get one as well, but I'm too chicken sh!t to ride one in traffic.

 

i know the feeling

[Gitfiddler]

I'm just going to hold onto my few beloved Heritages and wait about 20 more years.  Then lets bring this thread up again. 

[jerrysleftyguitars]

You have to admit Gibson is an adept, marketing juggernaut. There ability to self promote brings to mind Harley, Madonna, MTV, and many other examples of mass cultural phenomena. They are going to be in 85 Best Buy stores by Christmas (you can buy the CD, the DVD, and the very guitar they were using to make them!). They have dumped all the independent music stores that cannot guaranty Gibson $150,000 a year in sales (most everyone) to be married to Guitar Center/Musicians Friend/Music 123/Private Reserve Guitars (all one company).

Gibson is (along with Fender) the history of Rock&Roll. I honor them for that. That they decided to wring ever possible dollar from that "heritage" is no surprise. Isn't that what capitalism is supposed to be? Well, if you ask me, and I think the guys at Heritage, the answer would be "no". They have chosen the Santa Cruz, Goodall, Bourgeois, Huss & Dalton route of guitar making rather than the Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Fender route. I honor them for that by buying their guitars and putting them in peoples hands who have never played them and saying "here, try this".

[Millennium Maestro]

I didn't bother with reading most of the posts, so here is my 2cents.

 

Alot of Gibsons Reputation came from the Kalamazoo plant... and they own the name and design(good for them)

We all know Gibson doen't make the same guitar anymore.

 

At Heritage they dibbled and dabbled for the first few years with funky models and expirements but they know LP style and they build a better instrument... they have an old school philosopy that I admire!!!

[tulk1]

I'm not saying this isn't true, but I don't always trust dealers and their true motivation to make that extra call.

 

I could be wrong, but last I heard straight from the horse's mouth was "we are waiting on a 110 order".

 

John, to qualify my remark, that was how it was in July/Aug. Things could have changed significantly since then. :wink:  If all goes well in the next few weeks, I may try the 110 market, again. I'd truly love to have one.

[OldCrow]

Being a lefty I have a VERY different perspective on things. Seeing as up until this month G****n didn't have any standard production lefty guits for over two years, and in the years before that trying to track down one was an adventure in and of itself (I've only been playing about 8 years now) I stumbled across Heritage while searching for a LP style guitar and took a huge risk having never played one and going by word of mouth. I couldn't have been more pleased! Of the few G****n LPs I've played my Heritage is hands down the winner in every category, copy or not those of us in the know actually understand what makes a great guitar, and the name on it is the last thing.

[cosmikdebriis]

Bloody hell guys... I went out for a bike (Kawasaki) ride round the New Forest with a couple of mates, came back, and you've all gone post crazy... ;D

 

Having just read all the responses, (yes... really... all of them...). I was immediately struck by the same argument that we often touch on, directly or in directly. Which is Heritages lack of... erm... marketing.

 

Perhaps, as someone said, they're happy with things the way they are but I do feel they could be so much more profitable if they had a better marketing strategy.

 

Or, as someone else mentioned, maybe they would do better if their guitars were more expensive? (heaven forbid).

 

I had taken in to consideration Heritages "different" models but wonder if they are less well received because Heritage are seen either as a Gibbon copy or, for those in the know, as the real Gibbon. Maybe that association is detrimental to their ability to market (Market... Ahem...) anything different.

 

Quite a few people mentioned that Heritages were better than Gibbons. The awkward question we have to ask ourselves is... If that's the case... Then why do the vast majority of "big named" guitar players still prefer to play a Gibbon?

 

Thanks for not smiting me though guys... Remember this thread was only a meant as a discussion :angel:

[ingeneri]

Alot of amatuer guitarists take way too much pride in their equipment.  I constantly have guys coming up to me at gigs and bragging about the Gibson they own.  They just heard me playing the Heritage and always comment on how good it looks.  But at the same time, there's this odd condescending thing, like "I play a Gibson, don't you wish you could too." They're too vested in having that label and don't want to hear that you can get much more guitar for much less cash if you have another name on the headstock.

 

Incidentally, players never talk like this.  Even for the more gear head guys, the attitude is either you can play or you can't.  Likewise, the guitar is either a good instrument or it isn't.  And even if it isn't, there is more respect for the player overcoming those limitations.  Charlie Parker is famous for playing a toy sax after he pawned his horn during a bender. 

 

On price, I think Heritage has to be careful.  I understand being under inflationary pressure right now.  But if you try to have Gibson prices with a boutique brand you risk making those Campellones, Triggs, and Buscarinos look much more affordable. 

[OldCrow]

I think a reason why you see so many "big named" artists using G****n is because of $$$ G****n has the cash to throw at these guys to use their product, or at least pose for a picture with it in hand. I doubt that's at all in Heritage's business model nor do I think it should be, I don't want to be paying more for a guitar because so-so uses it and they need to cut him a check once a month.

[Gitfiddler]

I think a reason why you see so many "big named" artists using G****n is because of $$$ G****n has the cash to throw at these guys to use their product, or at least pose for a picture with it in hand. I doubt that's at all in Heritage's business model nor do I think it should be, I don't want to be paying more for a guitar because so-so uses it and they need to cut him a check once a month.

 

What, you mean like this 'guitar god'?? ???

 

 

http://www.gibson.com/allaccessfeatures.as...and_+The+Gibson

[OldCrow]

Ha that's classic!

[MacDoggie]

What, you mean like this 'guitar god'?? ???

 

 

http://www.gibson.com/allaccessfeatures.as...and_+The+Gibson

Yeah, but you have to remember, he used this guitar to send a secret message to the president preventing a nuclear attack from foreign agents, while fighting off seven trained assassins and rescuing the country.  All this and his cell phone never ran down...

[freshmattyp]

I'm sure when they started the company the old designs were the fastest to get to the market to generate cash flow.  Once money is coming in you can innovate.

 

Speaking for myself, I could have bought any 335 I wanted.  I certainly played plenty of them.  The one I chose was a new 535, and I haven't looked back.  Resale on this guitar is of no importance to me, because this one's not going anywhere.

[JeffB]

I'm sure when they started the company the old designs were the fastest to get to the market to generate cash flow.  Once money is coming in you can innovate.

 

Speaking for myself, I could have bought any 335 I wanted.  I certainly played plenty of them.  The one I chose was a new 535, and I haven't looked back.  Resale on this guitar is of no importance to me, because this one's not going anywhere.

Everything exactly the same for me except insert H150.

[pro-fusion]

My $.02:

 

The modern Gibson company is a lot like the housing bubble.  Stupidly inflated prices for hurriedly slapped-together items made by amateurs that appear on the surface to be a killer guitar/house.  When the Kool-Aid wears off, you discover that, hey, you just got ripped off!

 

Yes, I know that the Gibson custom shop will still make you a fine guitar, but only for a king's ransom, and those aren't the guitars hanging on the wall at Guitar Center.

 

Whenever I see someone playing a Heritage, I automatically assume they know what they're doing.  Whenever I see someone non-famous playing a new Gibson, I wonder if they're blinded by the name on the headstock.  And I say that as someone who has owned old Gibsons I wish I still had--not because they're worth a lot of money, but because they were great guitars.  Whenever I play a new production Gibson, I'm wondering what the hell happened.

 

I almost wonder if Heritage will outlast Gibson.  Companies built up on puffery and marketing flimflam have a way of falling fast and hard.

 

More to the point of this thread, I think that the Heritage founders know a thing or two about building and selling guitars.  There seems to be a pretty consistent market for their products.  It could well be that they don't want the company to grow large.  Look at what happened to Gibson when it grew large and unwieldy--it got in financial trouble and was taken over by a company that also built bowling balls and motorcycles.

[JohnCovach]

Of the non-Gibson-type models that Heritage has introduced, I think the Millennium guitars are superb.  I have two 155's and a DC and would buy another one if the price were right. 

 

Of course, I'm a big fan of my 575's, 150, 157, 535, and 576 as well!!

[PacerX]

I think that there is some serious discounting of Gibson's capabilities in this thread.

 

Gibson has done some bad things (sueing PRS and everyone else on the planet comes to mind...), but Gibson has also learned some hard lessons, forced down their throats by world-class manufacturers like Fender, Taylor and PRS...

 

That being quality.

 

Gibson's quality has increased markedly in the last decade or so.  Yes, they're still overpriced, but Gibson is also delivering the goods from a quality standpoint to a much greater extent than they used to - and is approaching the level of Fender, PRS and Taylor.

 

I haven't put my hands on a new mid-level or higher line Gibson in a long, long time now that wasn't a darned fine instrument.

 

 

Because you like Heritage doesn't mean that Gibson builds crap, or vice-versa.

 

Discount them out of hand at your own peril.

[Spectrum13]

Classic electric guitars from the classic period 1950-1965 should be thought of in the same way as violins from Cremona in the 18th century. Think about it. The best violin today would be a vintage Stradivarius or something that looks and sounds close as possible to that benchmark. So a fiddle built today might look and sound as much like the ones from the 18th century and likely play the same music with the same tone. I would argue the development of the fiddle reached it's zenith hundreds of years ago.

 

  So would not the best built electric guitars in 2008 be as close to the 1954-1960 LPS and 1958 335 and L5? It is still the same music so it's not like H, G & F need to research and develope new capabilities (other than wammy bars) so musicians are able to get the sounds in their heads out to an audience.  So my friends, classic rock, blues and jazz guitars should be made the old fashion way. Some of us perfer P90 to humbuckers and tube amps to solid state. So what do you really expect in the way of new & exciting? How about something that can tune itself? No, how about a reissue of something from 1958? We are not chasing something from the past but search for a golden age like instrument to play golden age music. Classic.

[PacerX]

"So would not the best built electric guitars in 2008 be as close to the 1954-1960 LPS and 1958 335 and L5?"

 

I mostly play shred/hard rock/metal.

 

My ideal guitar for most situations didn't exist until the early/mid 80's:

Flat radius, wide neck, thin profile, bolt-on or neck-thru, 25.5" scale, double-locking floating Floyd Rose and a humbucker in the bridge.

 

I have no use for P-90s, or a 1954 LP.  Simply put, they can't get the sounds I am after.

 

I own a hot-rodded H-150, and a hot-rodded LP because they have a great sound when used with lots of distortion on the bridge pickup.  P90's can't get the job done because they don't drive the front end of the amp hard enough.

 

 

 

Furthermore, the quality of guitars has relentlessly marched upwards since I started playing way back when.

 

Having laid my hands on some of the precious beauties of the "golden age" mentioned, I was in many cases not impressed in the least with the workmanship, playability and sound.

 

Sorry, but the good old days weren't all that good.  Virtually every guitar that Taylor or PRS put out on a daily basis buries all but a precious select few of the guitars, the truly "one in a bajillion" special ones that Fender and Gibson were making in the late 50's/early 60's from a quality standpoint.

[Spectrum13]

Sorry Pacer I did not think we had genX members. My rant would be for the 40 & 50 year olds. 

[pro-fusion]

Sorry Pacer I did not think we had genX members. My rant would be for the 40 & 50 year olds. 

 

I hate to break it to you, but I'm a 41-year-old GenXer.  We're not kids anymore. 

 

That said, I'm actually with PacerX on this one.  I'm a shred/fusion player with no particular use for vintage anything.  The Les Paul contains many 'vintage' elements that are timeless and useful for just about any player, but I feel no particular adherence to elements that aren't useful for me.  As such, I like to combine the heaviness, bite, and relatively shred-worthy neck of the Les Paul with higher output pickups, and play through gear that was technically impossible to build in 1955.

 

Interestingly, I have fewer problems with the basic Gibson designs than I do with Fenders.  A classic Stratocaster has 21 frets, ridiculously round fretboard radius, tiny frets, and weak pickups.  All stuff that I have no use for as a player.  My parts stratocaster has some of these features, unfortunately (not the radius or the pickups, though), but I use it for specialized things--it doesn't do my shredding.

 

Heritage initially drew me because of the reasonable prices, but when I got my 157 I realized that I liked it better than any Gibson I'd played in years.  No freakin' weight relief holes.  Nice slim neck that doesn't feel like a Louisville Slugger.  Huge, ungodly Les Paul tone for days.  Just all kinds of mojo.

 

One of my biggest beefs with Gibson, in fact, is how they seem to think that putting a fancy looking top on a hollowed-out Les Paul body and making it sorta kinda look like Peter Green's guitar constitutes great luthiery.  Heritage may not be particularly innovative, but they stick to first principles:  quality woods, quality assembly, quality craftsmanship.  I'll go ahead and change the pickups and such to modernize things, but I'm starting with a great guitar to begin with.

 

Don't mean to antagonize anyone who likes vintage gits...I enjoy ogling them myself.  I just don't have any need to own one in order to accomplish my musical goals.

[Rude Dog]

In Heritage, I found the guitars I've been looking for.  And I really don't care what anybody thinks about it.  I'm a player, not a collector.  A guy here at work is a collector and thinks I'm crazy for selling my Gibsons, but I think they're overpriced and lacking in quality, while paying for alot of name.  Kinda the same reason I ride a Victory motorcycle, and not an HD.  (don't mean to get anything started there .  My Heritage guitars look better, play better, and sound better than any guitars I've ever owned......this is in 25 years of playing.

 

My feelings exactly.

 

I have a Heritage because I love the way it plays and sounds.

If a guitar plays good, feels good & sounds good... then that's good enough for me.

 

I actually like the fact that a lot of people don't "get" these guitars - F@#$k 'em, more for me. 

 

I browse the mylespaul forum from time to time - which has it's good points as well as its worts - like lots of places.

They've got areas to blab about all sorts of les paul-style guitars. And it's funny, there's like ZERO interest in Heritage guitars over there. People have their Epiphones, Tokais, etc and everyone high-fives each other about how awesome those guitars are, but no love for Heritage (particularly the non-gibsonesque headstock).

 

It's pretty interesting, and I have ZERO interest in bashing anyone or anything, just commenting on the phenomina.

If "gibson" on the headstock makes you happy - then good for you, if a gibson shaped headstock on an imported guitar makes you happy - that's great too.

If you don't give a fuck about either of the above then I highly recommend trying a Heritage guitar or 2!  :laugh: