Collectible Heritage Guitars...Is There Such An Animal?

[FredZepp]

 

I know, I was just kidding. They couldn't have built a nicer guitar to honour just that! To me, the Centurion still is one of the nicest and certainly most special Heritage guitar that I've ever seen.

 

I was hoping that was the case... but it is a bit over the top for some people..

 

But I do dig the hummingbird bling. They spent a lot of time on that headstock.

[bolero]

The Heritages in my collection are valuable to me! More than my Gibsons for sure, but hey lets all over pay for guitars designed for the masses!

 

+1

 

in my opinion, guitar "collecting" is folly nowadays. they are still making them, better than ever. and the legendary stuff has already peaked in value. I expect it to go down

 

similar to classic cars, I am just waiting for that market to crash.

[Doc3]

Not even a little collectible:

 

[RSquared]

^{Everything the BGE gets his hands on}

[Kuz]

The problem is defining the word "collectible". If defining Heritages as 'Collectible" because they are great players and great guitars, all Heritages are collectibles. But to define Heritages as "collectible investments", I don't think 1 of 20 or 1 of 25, or even a 1 of 1 makes a difference. I am with Jack. Less people are playing guitars, and more kids are playing video games. Looking at collectible cars is a GREAT example. Twenty to Thirty years ago the "collectible investment cars" were the ones from the 1920s-1930s. But as that generation of collector turned over, the muscle cars (which you could barely give away 30 years ago) became the collectible cars because that is what the baby boomers want.

 

I have one of the rarest Heritage made, a Florentine Cutaway Golden Eagle (1 of 5-6 made). I don't expect to get more than what I paid for it. Right now the Gary Moores might have the best chance of going for a little more money due to his relatively recent death. But in 5-10 years they will be hard to sell for more unless someone is an avid Gary Moore memorabilia collector. I am not trying to be a troll, but Alex Sckolnic is not a big enough R&R icon to make a difference in guitar collector value. If one of the greatest jazz guitarist of all time, Kenny Burrell can't make a Heritage more collectible, than Alex surely can't.

 

My point, is I have as many Heritages as I do based on tonal pallet, not rareness or collectibility. Collect them because they are great guitars to play and look at, not because they are rare or investment worthy. My Mom has bags of beany babies with some of the low produced ones.... the rare ones were going for $200 when they first came out. The rare ones are worth $5-10 now.

 

Collect Heritages to play them, cause I don't think they ever are going to appreciate above retail value.

 

Just my opinion....

 

Pic of my 1 out of 5 or 6 Florentine Golden Eagle....

 

 

 

 

 

[thorn]

Well, all of course, but maybe especially those with all the signatures on the label?

 

Ding ding ding, I got one. lol

[yoslate]

I wouldn't expect a single guitar made anywhere in the past thirty or forty years to increase in value at even the rate of inflation in the future.

 

When the Boomers die, even the Lesters and Strats will be worth less.

 

By the time the Gen Xers retire, all but the rarest and most important guitars with specific provenance will be priced like everyday cars in fully restored condition from the Thirties and Forties are now: cheap, cheap cheap.

 

 

 

Desirable to players, certainly. "Collectable," in the sense that '50's Pauls, Strats, Teles, and pre-war Martins have been for the past twenty-five or thirty years? Likely not, due to profound changes in the market.

[FredZepp]

While I agree that the sales curve on guitars has factors that make it difficult to sustain a long term growth in their market, the question in these conversations is what time window are we considering. Are we talking about the future as in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years ...?

 

The comparison to vintage automobiles lends some interesting parallels, but they are very much apples to oranges. The automobile is constantly being modernized as an efficient mode of transportation with autos that are even 10 years old being considered outdated in terms of efficiency, safety, performance, comfort, and style. Safety, performance, and efficiency are a major factor in modern transportation choices. On the other hand we find musical instrument designs that are maintained for many decades or even centuries. In 2014 , how many of the most popular designs of guitars are nearly exact duplicates of 50 year old ( or more ) instruments.

 

As to the available market, we know that the numbers of instruments produced now still quite substantial , certainly millions of new guitars sold in the US each year. Hard numbers are difficult to come by , but Fender had sales of $380 million in 2007, Gibson makes probably 100,000 new guitars or more a year , and there are obviously tons of imported guitars being sold. High-end and boutique guitar makers are succeeding in selling new instruments ,but also student quality instruments are being sold in huge numbers that may not be due only to baby boomers. I know a lot of teens and twenty year olds that are committed guitar players. I would doubt that the market will suddenly disappear, although it may diminish over a long term .

 

I would possibly have a concern with the numbers being produced now affecting the "future market", as they are durable and tend to survive for a quite a while as used instruments. Guessing what will be most desirable and coveted would take a crystal ball, but we know that premium wood is a finite resource. ( but will it be desired anyhow...? ) It's hard for me to predict or even be too concerned about the guitar market in 50 years, but I'd suggest that the future of the guitar for the next 20 years is not as bleak as some suggest.

[FredZepp]

... I'll add ... There are , IMO, other economic factors external to the music industry that may play into future instrument values more than the above suggestions.

 

But collectability is really about desire more than dollars, I hope.... and Heritage should maintain and expand in desirability in the future, hopefully .

[Vanschoyck]

While I agree that the sales curve on guitars has factors that make it difficult to sustain a long term growth in their market, the question in these conversations is what time window are we considering. Are we talking about the future as in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years ...?

 

The comparison to vintage automobiles lends some interesting parallels, but they are very much apples to oranges. The automobile is constantly being modernized as an efficient mode of transportation with autos that are even 10 years old being considered outdated in terms of efficiency, safety, performance, comfort, and style. Safety, performance, and efficiency are a major factor in modern transportation choices. On the other hand we find musical instrument designs that are maintained for many decades or even centuries. In 2014 , how many of the most popular designs of guitars are nearly exact duplicates of 50 year old ( or more ) instruments.

 

As to the available market, we know that the numbers of instruments produced now still quite substantial , certainly millions of new guitars sold in the US each year. Hard numbers are difficult to come by , but Fender had sales of $380 million in 2007, Gibson makes probably 100,000 new guitars or more a year , and there are obviously tons of imported guitars being sold. High-end and boutique guitar makers are succeeding in selling new instruments ,but also student quality instruments are being sold in huge numbers that may not be due only to baby boomers. I know a lot of teens and twenty year olds that are committed guitar players. I would doubt that the market will suddenly disappear, although it may diminish over a long term .

 

I would possibly have a concern with the numbers being produced now affecting the "future market", as they are durable and tend to survive for a quite a while as used instruments. Guessing what will be most desirable and coveted would take a crystal ball, but we know that premium wood is a finite resource. ( but will it be desired anyhow...? ) It's hard for me to predict or even be too concerned about the guitar market in 50 years, but I'd suggest that the future of the guitar for the next 20 years is not as bleak as some suggest.

 

My concern for the near term market is that markets rarely react rationally. With $380 million in sales you would think that a slight decline shouldn't set off too many alarms, but often a failure to grow more than last year sets off the wringing of hands. And nobody wants to be last in a stampede. As for me I prefer more liquidity.

[CJTopes]

Maybe Heritage should make a "collectors edition" guitar..... LOL

 

THen in 50 years it will be worth squat like every other "collectors edition" collectible out there.......

[bolero]

I have a stash of Honda Civics hidden away in an old barn

[Gitfiddler]

Maybe Heritage should make a "collectors edition" guitar..... LOL

 

THen in 50 years it will be worth squat like every other "collectors edition" collectible out there.......

[Kuz]

 

So only 40 will be made.... unless I custom order one with those exact same specs (minus the numbering). PRS is infamous for their "limited" edition guitars.... and then they make the exact same guitar as a "production" guitar the next year.

 

I am not trying to pee on anyone's Heritage "collector" investment parade.... my point is if Kenny Burrell, Roy Clark, Gary Moore, or Alex Sckolnick could not increase the value of Heritage's "collector" signature guitars maybe they will just be great guitars like Hamer, ect

 

I will also point to the LOW resale value in the last few years for GREAT used Heritages. Archtops listed at $1500, 150s for $1200, the used prices are going lower not raising. There is a Heritage Archtop for sale for a reasonable $xxxx (compared to a new one), I hope the seller gets his price but I don't think he will off this site. The used Heritages are worth a lot more than what they are selling for, so I don't see the "collector investment" thing happening for ANY manufactures' guitar. My PRS guitars, McInturffs, and CP Thorntons are not appreciating. But I don't worry about it, guitars are meant to be loved, looked at, shown off, and played. The collectible investment guitar is a thing of the past.

[Gitfiddler]

Kuz, the purpose of my starting this thread was merely to discuss if there are collectible Heritage guitars, not investment value per se.

 

I think the two concepts can be mutually exclusive. IF a collectible item increases in value, then that's cool too...but with most guitars it ain't going to happen.

[Vanschoyck]

Kuz, the purpose of my starting this thread was merely to discuss if there are collectible Heritage guitars, not investment value per se.

 

I think the two concepts can be mutually exclusive. IF a collectible item increases in value, then that's cool too...but with most guitars it ain't going to happen.

Then I guess I'm confused too, because I always linked the "collectible" and "investment" thing together. Without the investment component, wouldn't everything be collectible? (AKA hoarding?)

[Gitfiddler]

Then I guess I'm confused too, because I always linked the "collectible" and "investment" thing together. Without the investment component, wouldn't everything be collectible? (AKA hoarding?)

 

Sorry but that is an erroneous link. Invest in gold, real estate, commodities, technology, and blue chip Fortune 500 companies...not collectables...or guitars.

 

 

 

We might be drifting away from the original intent of the thread by getting too specific. This is what it is about...

 

"...let's discuss, just for fun...not too serious...the following question...Are there any collectible Heritage guitars?"

[FredZepp]

Yeah, they're not really there as investments , but as fine instruments to enjoy ... Some of my more collectable aren't really worth a bunch.. like the Parsons Street . Fantastic , yet quirky.

[bolero]

I, too, made the assumption that collectible & investment were tied together!!

 

but i guess I was mistaken:

 

"A collectable or collectible (aka collector's item) is any object regarded as being of value or interest to a collector^[1] (not necessarily monetarily valuable or antique).^[2] There are numerous types of collectables and terms to denote those types. An antique is a collectable that is old. A curio is a small, usually fascinating or unusual item sought after by collectors.^[3] A manufactured collectable is an item made specifically for people to collect.^[4]"

 

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectable

[Kuz]

Then I guess I'm confused too, because I always linked the "collectible" and "investment" thing together. Without the investment component, wouldn't everything be collectible? (AKA hoarding?)

 

Yep, I agree with the above and I guess I am confused too. If collectible doesn't mean it is more unique or valuable, thenI stand by what I said earlier; "all Heritages are collectible because they are incredible handmade custom instruments".

 

GF, Don't get upset, I think it is good discussion, I just might be confused on how you want use to define "collectible".

 

Instead of collectible could you possibly mean "What is Heritage most 'identifiable' guitar? That would be interesting conversation too.

[Gitfiddler]

Yep, I agree with the above and I guess I am confused too. If collectible doesn't mean it is more unique or valuable, thenI stand by what I said earlier; "all Heritages are collectible because they are incredible handmade custom instruments".

 

GF, Don't get upset, I think it is good discussion, I just might be confused on how you want use to define "collectible".

 

Instead of collectible could you possibly mean "What is Heritage most 'identifiable' guitar? That would be interesting conversation too.

 

Nah, not upset in the least. I just wanted to drop a bit of clarity into the mix before we drifted further from the original intent of the thread....enjoying a discussion of our favorite guitar marque as a possible collectible item. It is understandable how 'collectible' can be combined with 'investment'. I think the comment about collecting Beanie Babies is spot on. What's hot at the moment might not be so down the road...and that includes guitars.

 

The value of a collectible is ultimately a personal viewpoint. Something may be very valuable to one person and absolutely useless to another. Personally, I think Heritage guitars (and amps) are collectible...not necessarily a good investment, but I certainly like having them around keeping me company. I can't help but think about Marv rolling necks, Ren tinkering with the electronics, Katy sanding the finish in her special way, and all of the other folks building these amazing instruments in a dank, dusty old Michigan factory, turning out wonderful instruments for the lucky few.

 

That's why I have bought/sold/traded for exactly the ones that remain in my humble...er, um, collection. Each guitar is beautiful to look at, enjoyable to play, and most of all give me a level of joy that most other material things do not. That's value to me. Maybe not to another, but it is to me. That, my friends, make Heritage guitars collectible.

[kidsmoke]

 

"...let's discuss, just for fun...not too serious...the following question...Are there any collectible Heritage guitars?"

yep. all of 'em.

 

Folks....people "collect" those little spoons with enamel tabs and pictures of prairie dogs on them. Bumper Stickers. Wine Corks. Salt and Pepper shakers. Some aspect catches their fancy and it becomes a hobby, a passion, or maybe just a fun way to know you'll always get a christmas gift you'll be glad to receive.

 

I own 7 guitars. It's my "collection". I don't feel much of a need beyond that, and 2 of 'em are Heritages for a reason. With one exception, they are all considered fine hand made guitars that any guitarist would acknowledge as excellent tools, wether or not they are their particular "flavor". For example I know a fine archtop jazzbox when I see one, but it's of little use to me as an instrument.

 

In that vein, any Heritage is high on the "collectible" continuum, IMHO

[CJTopes]

Well if we're talking collectible without regards to cost or worth, then I'd say any of the limited runs and one offs would top the list. And any custom builds.

[FredZepp]

[barrymclark]

Outside of this group...and as much as I like Heritage... I can't really think of any that might be considered a collector's item by the larger guitar playing or collecting community.