DetroitBlues Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Well, since everyone is posting pics..... The '67 Vibrolux Reverb & '67 Deluxe Reverb.... The '62 Vibrolux.... The '63 Deluxe.... Since I love the look of your vintage brown/blond face era amps....
t0aj15 Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 What is vintage now? Ive lost track. 30yrs? 25yrs? Older? More recent? According to the Fender forum 85' and earlier are vintage 86' on are modern.
Gitfiddler Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 According to the Fender forum 85' and earlier are vintage 86' on are modern. Really?! In that case I can play. '77 Silverface Deluxe Reverb '81 Champ II (Tweed Head/Cab conversion) '83 Champ II '82 Super Champ '83 Super Champ '82 Concert II
bolero Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Since I love the look of your vintage brown/blond face era amps.... hey, nice job on that cab design!! looks great
DetroitBlues Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 According to the Fender forum 85' and earlier are vintage 86' on are modern. Dang! Then my old '85 140 is Vintage Instrument now!!!
Kuz Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Kuz- what type of speaker is in the deluxe....reminds me of a JBL cone but I'm assuming that's not the case. Cosmetically, I love the tease of that silver dome through the cloth. This thread is not what I needed right now. JBL K120
Royst Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 JBL K120 My Twin Reverb had two K120's in it. I had to roll back the highs quite a bit with them. Very sharp sounding (think Dick Dale)
212Mavguy Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 The 70's Champ that has only the cab, chassis, light socket, and pots left. It became the Frank-en-Champ. Then there's a '68 Black Line Silverface Super Reverb that has been modded from goodness to greatness, became a poor man's Vibroverb Stevie style 2 ohm OT mismatched into an 8 ohm 15, his was EVM 15l, mine is JBL G135. Final mod for mine is to convert to bias modulated tremolo…then there's the '81 Silverface Ultralinear Circuit Super Reverb with the original orange frame JBL D110's in it, chicken picking' at it finest…that one will be left bone stock.
JeffB Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 According to the Fender forum 85' and earlier are vintage 86' on are modern. Really?! In that case I can play. '77 Silverface Deluxe Reverb '81 Champ II (Tweed Head/Cab conversion) '83 Champ II '82 Super Champ '83 Super Champ '82 Concert II Super Champs.jpgFender amps 1.jpg Just the one then. 1982 Fender Concert II Another way to look at it
Kuz Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 My Twin Reverb had two K120's in it. I had to roll back the highs quite a bit with them. Very sharp sounding (think Dick Dale) Well, not so much to my ears. The K120 in the '67 Deluxe Reverb sounds HUGE with lots of mids & chimey highs. But honestly, with a vintage blackface with no mid control, you need to roll back the highs a little (3) and have the bass up a little (4). Jim Campilongo uses a Tele through a Princeton reverb and sets his amp: highs (2) & bass (8).
LRS Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 1969 Super Reverb. AB763, CTS alnico speakers. Will never, ever be sold. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JAM Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 According to the Fender forum 85' and earlier are vintage 86' on are modern. Well that is a very arbitrary categorization. The Fender Forum chose that mainly because 1985 is when FMIC purchased Fender from CBS. They're calling anything pre-FMIC as Vintage. Other's put that at pre-CBS ('64(5)). A better date, especially for Fender Amps would be pre-'75 and post-'75. This would include the Woodies, Tweeds, Blonds, Brownfaces, Blackfaces and half of the Silverface Amps. Prior to 1975, the Fender Amps were hand-wired, point-to-point, with Tube rectifiers, Spring Reverb Tanks and no modelling or Boost circuits. After 1975, you saw the switchover to PCBs, Solid State rectifiers, SS Boosts, SS Modeling, SS Reverb and Effects, etc. These are the stuff of 'Modern' Amps. Also, it's generally accepted that Fender's Golden Age of Tone (which peaked w/ the Blackface Amps) ended with the models produced from the mid-'70s to the current day. Cheers!
LRS Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK up to 1983 all Fender Amps were hard wired. SS rectifiers were also applied in pre 1975 Amps, e.g. Bandmaster. That's actually what differentiates a Bandmaster from my Super Reverb. Both AB763 circuit, but the SR uses a rectifier tube, where the BM uses a diode. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JAM Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Well, here's my pair of Vintage beauties: 1967 Fender Blackface Deluxe (AB763)... 1973 Fender Silverface Princeton Reverb (AB1270)...
JAM Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK up to 1983 all Fender Amps were hard wired. SS rectifiers were also applied in pre 1975 Amps, e.g. Bandmaster. That's actually what differentiates a Bandmaster from my Super Reverb. Both AB763 circuit, but the SR uses a rectifier tube, where the BM uses a diode. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No... you're not wrong. But not all the amp models were changed in the same model years, in some cases it took CBS 8-9 years to radically alter the amp. The early Silverface Amps were left virtually untouched by CBS except for the switchover from Blackface to Silverface cosmetics. It's really after 1975 that CBS put their own Electrical Engineers to work to 'fix' the Blackface circuits. This was because prior to that, CBS had their engineers working on designing a TV (CBS wanted to rule that market, but subsequently surrendered to the Japanese). In most cases, what these EEs from CBS did was produce more 'efficient' circuitry for the amps... the type a University Graduate would make. Leo Fender designed his circuits all the 'wrong way', as someone with no formal training would do. In fact, Leo pretty much just copied old RCA circuits from the 1930s and changed them just enough to avoid any patent or other infringement. But Leo's circuits were all Happy Accidents. Even though they weren't as efficient on paper, they just sounded better than the circuits designed by the EEs at CBS. The early Silverface amps are prized as highly as the Blackface ones (which they practically are). In the case of my '73 PR, the AB1270 circuit differs from the original Blackface AB868 circuit only by the value of a single resistor - 2700uv vs. 2200uv. Otherwise the circuit is identical. If you look at the Market Price for Silverface Amps, you'll note a distinct difference between those from '68-'75 and those after. The later ones are simply not as highly sought. cheers!
slider313 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 The early Silverface Amps were left virtually untouched by CBS except for the switchover from Blackface to Silverface cosmetics The early Silverface amps are prized as highly as the Blackface ones (which they practically are). In the case of my '73 PR, the AB1270 circuit differs from the original Blackface AB868 circuit only by the value of a single resistor - 2700uv vs. 2200uv. Otherwise the circuit is identical. The only early silverface amps circuits that were left untouched were the Champ, Princeton and Deluxe series. The larger amps had more than a few changes, which is what gave the silverface amps a bad reputation early on. Some very early "blackline" silverface amps were produced for the 1967 summer NAMM show and are, in fact, blackface amps with silver cosmetics. The AB868 is not a blackface circuit as the schematic is AB 8 (August) 68 (1968).
JAM Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 The only early silverface amps circuits that were left untouched were the Champ, Princeton and Deluxe series. The larger amps had more than a few changes, which is what gave the silverface amps a bad reputation early on. Some very early "blackline" silverface amps were produced for the 1967 summer NAMM show and are, in fact, blackface amps with silver cosmetics. The AB868 is not a blackface circuit as the schematic is AB 8 (August) 68 (1968). My mistake... I meant AA1164, Cheers!
JAM Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Well, since everyone is posting pics..... The '67 Vibrolux Reverb & '67 Deluxe Reverb.... The '62 Vibrolux.... The '63 Deluxe.... 3 of the Sweetest Amps I've ever seen !! Good On You !! cheers! Jim
rjsanders Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 What is vintage now? Ive lost track. 30yrs? 25yrs? Older? More recent? a fun topic for me. i think there's been a blurring of the terms "vintage", "classic", and "collectible" (among others) over the years. IMHO, there's no correlation between "vintage" (age, regardless of how recent) and "quality" (implying high quality). i've been a Fender customer since '67 (my 1st new amp, a Bandmaster) and fascinated with their history. since then i've had a number of them, still have a '64 Showman head, have had a '59 Tremolux and a '65 Super Reverb for a long time. but Leo sold the company in Jan. '65 and quality declined not long after that, guitars & amps both. CBS built a huge plant, cranked up production, the beancounters replaced parts and materials with cheaper stuff after the existing inventory was used up. blackface amps continued more or less as before, Strats got bigger headstocks, etc. then in '66 or so the solid state amps started showing up. anyone here heard a "vintage" Fender Solid State Twin Reverb from the mid-late '60's? it's instructive. can be painful, too. anyway, i still kinda dig classic sounds and find them in old tweeds and blackfaces (have never tried a blonde or brown tolex amp), some Rivera-era (handwired, point-to-point, '82-'87), and dug my little Blues Jr. for quite a while. if you like a silverface, i suggest trying a really nice pre-CBS blackface and suspect that'll be a revelation. remarkably, old BF's and Rivera-eras are very under-priced for what they are. me, i've reverted to tweeds and good clones and retakes on tweeds (Victoria, Lil Dawg, etc.)...
slider313 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 But Leo sold the company in Jan. '65 and quality declined not long after that, guitars & amps both. CBS built a huge plant, cranked up production, the beancounters replaced parts and materials with cheaper stuff after the existing inventory was used up. Most all guitar and amp manufacturers quality slipped not long after Feb. 9th,1964.
rjsanders Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Most all guitar and amp manufacturers quality slipped not long after Feb. 9th,1964. the Sullivan show? my guess is that boosted the Brit amps (vox & later marshall). but Ampeg steered a nice quality course and Traynor was picking up in that era. we really didn't have that many choices on the West Coast. lotta Fenders, then some Brit stuff, then later we'd see Acoustic and Kustom and the like...thank Buddha for Mesa Engineering
slider313 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 the Sullivan show? Yep. That started the whole demand, which was really rolling by mid 1965. Ampeg held on until 1967 when they sold to UniMusic and later ('69?) to Magnavox. Remember, Ampeg was selling amps where Fender was selling guitars, basses and amps. Gretsch sold to Baldwin in 1967. Gibson sent Epiphone to Japan in late 1969 and early 70's Norlin era Les Pauls had sandwich bodies and three piece necks. Blame the Beatles....it's their fault.
Gitfiddler Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Yep, this is a cool thread...for us Ed Sullivan boomers. Always wanted a Vox Super Beatle amp. It was taller than most of the kids in the 'hood at the time.
Emmy Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 65 Princeton I agree with you - who needs reverb on an amp. You, me, and maybe Steve Albini. Princeton 66 or 67
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