rjsanders Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 Yep. That started the whole demand, which was really rolling by mid 1965. Ampeg held on until 1967 when they sold to UniMusic and later ('69?) to Magnavox. Remember, Ampeg was selling amps where Fender was selling guitars, basses and amps. Gretsch sold to Baldwin in 1967. Gibson sent Epiphone to Japan in late 1969 and early 70's Norlin era Les Pauls had sandwich bodies and three piece necks. Blame the Beatles....it's their fault. yeahman. stoopid beadlez...
Royst Posted July 12, 2014 Author Posted July 12, 2014 Yep, this is a cool thread...for us Ed Sullivan boomers. Always wanted a Vox Super Beatle amp. It was taller than most of the kids in the 'hood at the time. I have two friends that still have Super Beatles. They look cool on their carts.
JeffB Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 a fun topic for me. i think there's been a blurring of the terms "vintage", "classic", and "collectible" (among others) over the years. IMHO, there's no correlation between "vintage" (age, regardless of how recent) and "quality" (implying high quality). i've been a Fender customer since '67 (my 1st new amp, a Bandmaster) and fascinated with their history. since then i've had a number of them, still have a '64 Showman head, have had a '59 Tremolux and a '65 Super Reverb for a long time. but Leo sold the company in Jan. '65 and quality declined not long after that, guitars & amps both. CBS built a huge plant, cranked up production, the beancounters replaced parts and materials with cheaper stuff after the existing inventory was used up. blackface amps continued more or less as before, Strats got bigger headstocks, etc. then in '66 or so the solid state amps started showing up. anyone here heard a "vintage" Fender Solid State Twin Reverb from the mid-late '60's? it's instructive. can be painful, too. anyway, i still kinda dig classic sounds and find them in old tweeds and blackfaces (have never tried a blonde or brown tolex amp), some Rivera-era (handwired, point-to-point, '82-'87), and dug my little Blues Jr. for quite a while. if you like a silverface, i suggest trying a really nice pre-CBS blackface and suspect that'll be a revelation. remarkably, old BF's and Rivera-eras are very under-priced for what they are. me, i've reverted to tweeds and good clones and retakes on tweeds (Victoria, Lil Dawg, etc.)... I always thought vintage was a term for quality. A historic item representing the best of the best. In my head when ever someone uses the word vintage to descrbe any old guitar from any brand I mentally substitute other words. Im not sure I would term my 80's Rivera Fender as vintage. Its a really cool amp, its never stopped or displayed any reoccuring intermitant or random problems. Its bullet proof. Its been hammered and treated badly. Ridden hard and put away wet so to speak. It still sounds great and never misses a beat. After 29yrs?(cant remember) of owning it the sounds in my head are tied to it. Its shaped the way I hear guitar and how I judge other amps But it was never an amp with any prestige or real story from a marketing perspective. It wasnt a popular amp when it was first released infact it wasnt regarded highly at all. It makes up the old and good quality part of vintage but not the important and desirable aspect of vintage. Its a good old amp. Thats all I need to know about it.
Gitfiddler Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 I always thought vintage was a term for quality. A historic item representing the best of the best. In my head when ever someone uses the word vintage to descrbe any old guitar from any brand I mentally substitute other words. Im not sure I would term my 80's Rivera Fender as vintage. Its a really cool amp, its never stopped or displayed any reoccuring intermitant or random problems. Its bullet proof. Its been hammered and treated badly. Ridden hard and put away wet so to speak. It still sounds great and never misses a beat. After 29yrs?(cant remember) of owning it the sounds in my head are tied to it. Its shaped the way I hear guitar and how I judge other amps But it was never an amp with any prestige or real story from a marketing perspective. It wasnt a popular amp when it was first released infact it wasnt regarded highly at all. It makes up the old and good quality part of vintage but not the important and desirable aspect of vintage. Its a good old amp. Thats all I need to know about it. Wow, I don't think I've ever read anything so eloquent about Rivera-era Fender amps. But I agree. When I crank up my 80's Concert II and put a Zendrive in front of it, I think I'm Robbin Ford. Then I wake up! The amps that Paul Rivera and his design team built during that 3 to 4 year run were a lone bright spot during Fender's dark years in my view.
rjsanders Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 i got a Concert II 4x10 new in '82, later on a 1x12 and a head. imho that design is the pinnacle of the blackface sound. unbelievable you can still get them for $500-700. handwired, point-to-point, FX loop, reverb. looks like the most valued of the Rivera-era models is the Superchamp...
JAM Posted July 12, 2014 Posted July 12, 2014 i got a Concert II 4x10 new in '82, later on a 1x12 and a head. imho that design is the pinnacle of the blackface sound. unbelievable you can still get them for $500-700. handwired, point-to-point, FX loop, reverb. looks like the most valued of the Rivera-era models is the Superchamp... The 'Blackface' era was Oct. '64 to April '67. Prior to this were the Woodie/Tweed/Blond eras and after the 'Silverface' era. Fender (CBS) returned to Blackface cosmetics in the late '70s, but they're not Blackface Amps in the common parlance. What you have is Blackface-like sound. At least CBS partially saw the error of their ways. cheers! Jim
slider313 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 The 'Blackface' era was Oct. '64 to April '67. Actually, the schematics for many blackface amps were drawn up in July of 1963; AA763 and AB763. One of the first blackface amps put into production was the non reverb Deluxe in September of 1963 followed by the Bandmaster in October of '63 and the Super Reverb in November of '63. Blackface amps were made into the end of 1967. Silverface amps were made as early as April 1967 for the purpose of being shown at the summer NAMM show. Some were sent to larger Fender dealers to showcase the new cosmetics for 1968. Hope that helps.
rjsanders Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 The 'Blackface' era was Oct. '64 to April '67. Prior to this were the Woodie/Tweed/Blond eras and after the 'Silverface' era. Fender (CBS) returned to Blackface cosmetics in the late '70s, but they're not Blackface Amps in the common parlance. What you have is Blackface-like sound. At least CBS partially saw the error of their ways. cheers! Jim well, there were transition periods between old and new. e.g., my narrow panel Tremolux had parts from '59 and '60 and the blondies started showing up after that, with some overlap. my younger brother still has his piggyback BF Tremolux, new from fall '65. and, 'course, there were blondes between those. and don't forget the brownface models, which overlap with blondes - both before the blackface era started. (what slider313 sez is pretty much how we see it, with those transitions). anyway, my point on the Concert II was not that it was a blackface-era amp, but that it sounded and was built like the BFs could've been. and not just the Concert. e.g., compare a Superchamp to a BF Deluxe or Deluxe Reverb. for most applications, i'd choose the Superchamp (i know this gets into personal choice and so forth)... cheers, j
slider313 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 well, there were transition periods between old and new. e.g., my narrow panel Tremolux had parts from '59 and '60 and the blondies started showing up after that, with some overlap. True, there was plenty of overlap in the transition of models. The first brown amp was the 1959 1x15 Vibrasonic. It was being made along side the tweed amps, which made into early 1961.
mark555 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 our own Peter Alton has several vintage Fender amps, they all look and sound terrific.
RJLII Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Yep, this is a cool thread...for us Ed Sullivan boomers. Always wanted a Vox Super Beatle amp. It was taller than most of the kids in the 'hood at the time. I work with a guy that has two of the Super Beatles. I guess they're held in reserve for his next stadium show.
Yooper Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 A new face for old '73 "Scarface". Now it has the look to match the times.
Gitfiddler Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 A new face for old '73 "Scarface". Now it has the look to match the times. This is the most appropriate grill cloth image for that amp...
Yooper Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 appropriate grill cloth image for that amp... Pretty close:
Trouble Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Currently use multi channel amps to gig with but own a '66 Super Reverb that might be the best amp ever, and a '76 Vibro Champ that's not far behind, the Super at around 7 or 8 with the neck bucker on my 150 is one of the sweetest things I've ever heard, painfully loud but worth it.
Dennpark Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 I LOVE my 1968 Duel Showman reverb head w/2x15 cab, just can`t move it around any more. I modified my silver face twin reverb into a head and separate 2x12 cab to be easier to move. 40 lbs each. A guy in North Webster Indiana builds super nice custom cab and built both the head and cab for me. At one point it was in a VOX Buckingham chrome trolley with the tilt cab feature. I also have a couple of blackface twins. Don`t move them much either. Both are re-issues. I haul around a newer solid state Princeton chorus that is sort of OK. Prefer the tube sound though. Just spoiled. Now I know where that bad back came from! Selling the duel showman reverb as a pick it up only, as I`m sure I will never attempt to move it again. I`m near Kazoo I anyone is interested. The cab alone is around 86 lbs. Twin EV 15s.
DavePenney Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I currently use a Mojave Plexi 45 which I tried out in a guitar shop alongside a Bluesbreaker, a custom shop Bassman and a 70s 30W Tremolux head on a 2x12. Didn't think much of the Bassman or Bluesbreaker but I was seriously impressed with the tremolux. I opted for the Mojave in the end but the tremolux sounded lovely. It's on my wishlist to buy at some point in my life! I also had a Tonemaster head which I ebay'd because I didn't have any money for my rent. Big regrets over that.......
Gianluca Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 I use a P. Rivera-era Fender Montreux solid state, described here: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/topic/27608-nadprii-outprii-in/?do=findComment&comment=384736 I'm happy with it, I ust say I'm not a professional musician. My Custom H535 is happy with it, humubucker and coil tap it's a great couple. Same goes for when I use with my Gibsons(1990 LP Classic 1960 and a 1995 ES135 mounting P100s) The spring reverb is round and rich with some bg noise though. The 2nd channel has a rich overdrive with a wide range of tones. I'm happy with it.
duhvoodooman Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 How about an amp based directly upon a vintage Fender design--does that count? A little over a year ago, I started looking around for a BF Princeton Reverb, but almost every one I looked at seemed to have some major detraction. A couple that were in great shape and were all-original (except for tubes) were priced higher than I was willing to spend. So instead, I started looking around at who offered the best quality BF Fender amp kits and quickly settled on David Allen's Sweet Spot. I was not disappointed! The quality of the kit components is second to none, and the sound of the finished amp is pure vintage BF Fender. The optional 1x12 combo that I went with gives a stronger bottom-end than a PR, and David's added "Middle" control acts like you'd expect up to about 3, and thereafter adds gain and gradually overrides the effect of the Bass and Treble controls. Has a couple of other nice added features, notably a "Bright" boost toggle and bias jacks on the rear panel that make rebiasing a new/different set of output tubes a snap. And you can run 6V6's, 5881's or 6L6's, as your power and tonal preferences dictate. Sweet Spot, indeed! Coupla photos:
Gitfiddler Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 How about an amp based directly upon a vintage Fender design--does that count? A little over a year ago, I started looking around for a BF Princeton Reverb, but almost every one I looked at seemed to have some major detraction. A couple that were in great shape and were all-original (except for tubes) were priced higher than I was willing to spend. So instead, I started looking around at who offered the best quality BF Fender amp kits and quickly settled on David Allen's Sweet Spot. I was not disappointed! The quality of the kit components is second to none, and the sound of the finished amp is pure vintage BF Fender. The optional 1x12 combo that I went with gives a stronger bottom-end than a PR, and David's added "Middle" control acts like you'd expect up to about 3, and thereafter adds gain and gradually overrides the effect of the Bass and Treble controls. Has a couple of other nice added features, notably a "Bright" boost toggle and bias jacks on the rear panel that make rebiasing a new/different set of output tubes a snap. And you can run 6V6's, 5881's or 6L6's, as your power and tonal preferences dictate. Sweet Spot, indeed! Coupla photos: Obviously a new amp cannot be considered 'vintage' as per the thread title. However, you've named one of the best new updated and vastly improved versions of an old vintage design.
duhvoodooman Posted August 8, 2014 Posted August 8, 2014 Obviously a new amp cannot be considered 'vintage' as per the thread title. However, you've named one of the best new updated and vastly improved versions of an old vintage design. Of course I understood that--just wanted to give a "shout out" to David Allen on his great takes on the venerable Fender designs. And if anyone is scrolling through this thread and drooling over the beautiful vintage Fenders pictured herein, but don't have the $2-3K cost of admission, David's fine amps & kits may better suit their budget....
Kuz Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Of course I understood that--just wanted to give a "shout out" to David Allen on his great takes on the venerable Fender designs. And if anyone is scrolling through this thread and drooling over the beautiful vintage Fenders pictured herein, but don't have the $2-3K cost of admission, David's fine amps & kits may better suit their budget.... Here lies the confusion on price of a vintage Fender amps..... Of my four vintage Fenders ('62 Vibrolux, '63 Deluxe, '67 Deluxe Rev, '67 Vibrolux Rev) the most I paid was $2200 ('62 Vibrolux) and the others were well below $2K. Look & wait for good deals and vintage Fender amps are priced near the same (and often less) than new amps.
duhvoodooman Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Look & wait for good deals.... I think I've determined the root of my problem....
Gitfiddler Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 While the entrance fee of some vintage amps and some of the wonderful new boutique amps may be close, you will most likely not lose money on vintage. Since I don't own truly vintage amps, this is all hindsight thinking. Play what you have and enjoy it while you have it.
Hfan Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 How about an amp based directly upon a vintage Fender design--does that count? A little over a year ago, I started looking around for a BF Princeton Reverb, but almost every one I looked at seemed to have some major detraction. A couple that were in great shape and were all-original (except for tubes) were priced higher than I was willing to spend. So instead, I started looking around at who offered the best quality BF Fender amp kits and quickly settled on David Allen's Sweet Spot. I was not disappointed! The quality of the kit components is second to none, and the sound of the finished amp is pure vintage BF Fender. The optional 1x12 combo that I went with gives a stronger bottom-end than a PR, and David's added "Middle" control acts like you'd expect up to about 3, and thereafter adds gain and gradually overrides the effect of the Bass and Treble controls. Has a couple of other nice added features, notably a "Bright" boost toggle and bias jacks on the rear panel that make rebiasing a new/different set of output tubes a snap. And you can run 6V6's, 5881's or 6L6's, as your power and tonal preferences dictate. Sweet Spot, indeed! Coupla photos: Mind me asking what it cost you to put that together? Really nice looking build. Recently I tried out a guitar on CL and the owner had an original (he thinks) Blackface Princeton Reverb. Really nice.
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