How would YOU market Heritage?

[JeffB]

I really like my Heritage. Really like it. Really. Really like it.

I dont think I care who made it. I would have bought it regardless of who made it. It said take me. I tried all sorts of single cut guitars from lots of manufacturer's. None of them made me react like this chestnut 150. I dont think I even noticed the colour when I first strummed it.

I dont care if its headstock is slightly different from the one that was made 2 days before it.

I dont care if the logo looks dated or hip and cool.

For me a guitar, amp, car, house or whatever has to stand on its own merits and not the hype of advertising.

This Heritage of mine did that for me and so has a 140 thats been and gone and a 553 that has also been and gone before I had the opportunity to raise funds for them.

They sold to great players who new a great guitar when they played it and grabbed them before some one else who new a good guitar could get their mits on them. They sure didnt give a rats what the headstock or logo looked like.

The gibbo fan boys will continue to buy gibbos. Good on them. No amount of advertising will turn them.

Someone who is looking for a good guitar will always be open minded enough to try a Heritage. Its the guitar that matters, not the brand.

Fortunately for Heritage they have a knack of making some special guitars that players can relate to.

 

0.02c AU

[Thundersteel]

"Vintage Voltage!"

[cod65]

I'd rather have a pile of Heritage guitars than a 401k any day!

[les paulverizer]

Keep it "The Heritage" because that is what it is: the Heritage of guitar making at "The" original Gibson plant in K-zoo.

 

Every Joe Blow and his sister has a "Heritage" series (least of which is Gibby) so all web surfing for "Heritage" would end up with sites for your main competitor.

 

No very bad idea (sorry no I'll intent) but keep "The Heritage"

 

As for Alex Sloknick, F*** him! he wants more money so we don't need that jazz want-a-be prima donna!

 

"The Heritage Guitar company" wasn't founded paying guys off. It was built on integrity, trust, and loyalty. Roy Clark, Vince Lewis, and Kenny Burrell are REAL AUTHENTIC MUSICIANS that could have gotten paid off by some other company but because of  long term relationships and great guitar they have stayed with Heritage for peanuts.

 

Here's to The Heritage Company. Here's to ANOTHER thread on this subject. AND Here's to The Heritage company not changing a thing- that's keeping it real!

 

I think you got several points, but maybe only up to a point...

Alex is also a REAL AUTHENTIC MUSICIAN; I don't personally go with the "Testament"-type Rock as when it comes to that kind of music I lean toward a less Metal and more "Rock 'n' Roll" approach, if ya know what I mean, nevertheless we have to agree that they're w-o-r-k-i-n-g p-r-o's, and very much respected in their field.

Also, I have to add, there are a lot of similarities between Rock (I mean real Rock!), Jazz & Country, one bein' that if ya can't play the hell out of your instrument you'll cut your career short, pure and simple.

Let me give you an example; when people go watch an Ozzy Osbourne (or you could say Winton Marsalis, or Emmylou Harris) show, they simply expect him to go out with nothing less than stellar musicians, and if anyone in his band turned out to be below a certain standard his audience would eventually notice, and he well knows that. I'm NOT a Zakk Wylde fan a-t-a-l-l, but only a jerk would say that the guy can't play, and that applies to anyone in that band, furthermore I'm not a jerk... 8)

Obviously the same applies to Jazz and also Country; if ya can't PLAY ya better get another job and stick to playin' yer guitar in front of the TV.

No need to say that this doesn't necesseraly apply to other kinds of music where talent is only an add-on and sometimes is actually considered a liability as it makes the (F)artist less gullible and maybe even a little bit smart on the side and, hey, ya don't need that!

That explains all the Tinseltown Rebellion Bands still screamin' outta our TV's after all these years!

Alex sincerely got into Jazz, developed a real love of Jazz and all things Charlie Parker, delved into it while still playin' & touring with Testament years ago and then made up his mind; quit Testament, went (back) to Music College and applied himself to be the best Jazz guitarist he could.

Only recently he rejoined Testament cuz at times he had withdrawls about pluggin' into a Marshall and not a Polytone! :laugh:

Anyway, if that's not a REAL MUSICIAN, I don't know what it is and I'd be interested to hear.

The real evil, is MONEY.

There's nothing wrong with money itself, we all need it, but like the Good Book says "the LOVE of money is the root of all sort of injurious things"; there's a valid point there specially considerin' the "that book" was completed before the advent of record companies and marketing departments!

It's a mystery... ???

Guys like Roy Clark, Kenny Burrel, and the likes were never "that big" (if ya know what I mean), endorsements weren't that popular at that time, hence thay had a lot more freedom and much less pressure.

Never mind the fact that as far back as 1961/62 the Fab Four had to go out with those suits ties and mop tops, which John Lennon really hated... :laugh:

Just to give ya a very lame example, I've been working with an artist for few months now and two days ago right after a gig, and the gig was a great success by anybody's standards, this guy from the management came backstage and advised/t-o-l-d me not to use "that wooden guitar" (my H150) but "the black one again" (Gibson Les Paul) as it's more appropriate and blah blah blah,...!

I'm not much of a "yes man", sometimes I've paid for it but I managed to keep my self respect, nevertheless I'm a pro (well, I do my best...!) and I can see that guy's point, and at this point that's what that situation requires; all my guitars are awesome, but all I gotta do is order a black H150 from Parson Street if that's what I wanna use and everything will be cool.

Everything's cool and stuff, everyone is over the moon about everything and there's mutual respect and admiration in huge quantities ok, but can you imagine what it would be like if certain big companies were involved?

I got the feeling it's only a matter of time...

The good thing is that this particular Artist is actually very good and talented, and he definitely knows what he knows, so "he k-n-o-w-s"! (if ya know what I mean...ah ah ah!)

I doubt very much Alex is personally involved with the Heritage sponsor thing; 99% it's his management only and from their point of view since they got a deal with Ibanez (we should have started smellin' a Corporate rat a while ago...!) years ago for a certain amount of money, and considering all the other big companies they could turn to, they're N-E-V-E-R gonna go for lessthan that; if they're feelin' really generous they'll try to increase it by a 10% at least only, and that's on a good day! >

I think Heritage shouldn't change a thing (apart from that revoltin' web site! >) and continue doin' what they're doin' the way they're doin' it.

There's a lot of small companies building marvellous stuff (check out Michael De Temple Guitars for the best Strat's on the planet! ) and I think "small" is the key word; as soon as you get big ya have to get bigger, to the detriment of we know what...

If that happens with Heritage I think they'll turn into Hamer Guitars; awesome top notch American built models along with mediocre & way inferior Eastern production ones.

Which is cool... 8)

Whatever happens I wish the old folks at Parson Street all the very best plus some, they've more than earned it and deserve it, and as long as they keep up the great work, REAL PLAYERS will n-e-v-e-r cease buying their guitars, never.

Speakin' of which, if I can manage to somehow swing a black H150, actually I want an H157 , it'll be really cool and I'll still be able to play a REAL GUITAR and to "stick a finger to the system"!

Oh man, I luv (L-U-V) Rock'n'Roll... :wink:

[Thundersteel]

Just to give ya a very lame example, I've been working with an artist for few months now and two days ago right after a gig, and the gig was a great success by anybody's standards, this guy from the management came backstage and advised/t-o-l-d me not to use "that wooden guitar" (my H150) but "the black one again" (Gibson Les Paul) as it's more appropriate and blah blah blah,...!

 

How would a black LP be "more appropriate?" 

[les paulverizer]

How would a black LP be "more appropriate?" 

 

The color, obviously; fits in better with the live show.

They couldn't care less what brand it is, as for now, that's why I'm gonna try to swing a black Parson Street-onian, even though that Les Paul is one of the best I've ever heard.

I think it's good to have an idea of the bigger picture, that's why I've related this little thing that happened to me a coupla days ago.

[Spectrum13]

Without reviewing the balance sheets, knowing peek production numbers, employee expected retirement dates, available new trainable labor, dealer order delivery times...you would be flying blind. These guys know how many they can make and sell. They also know they have a loyal fan base to loose should quality suffer. Increased production = marginal productivity = diminshed returns. Simple words of wisdom, let it be. 

[Jim W]

Interesting replies so far.

 

My only concern is:

 

With the loyal fan base that they currently have, without having "changed" anything; they had to close the doors once already.

 

I think that any business that's going to survive has to be able to recruit new sales; but how is the question. The existing methods don't work well as evidenced by the near bankruptcy. I don't think I would change how/where the guitars are made (that would change manufacturing), but I would change the advertising (marketing)a bit.

 

I don't think nearly as many people are familiar with Heritage as we are, and that's all I would like to see change.

 

So, how would you spread the word?

 

Like I said, are ads in guitar mags the thing? I personally don't give a rat's ass about who endorses what, I prefer a guitar that stands on its' own merits (as the Heritages do).

 

Maybe a cutaway guitar at select dealers that shows what the reason's are that Heritage products are such high quality? Demo models at dealers? A travelling demo van that was scheduled to give "demo days" at guitar stores? There are not any dealers by me that even carry Heritage, and very few would risk ordering one to "check it out" in todays economy.

 

Fender, Gibson, etc. all have had free advertising by virtue of the fact that 99% of pros play their products.

 

I appreciate that Clark, Lewis & Burnell are great musicians, but they are not known to the vast majority of the population. Heritage has to find some way to get their product known to the vast majority of the buying public. I love their products myself, but I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to that really don't know who they are.

 

I would like Heritage to remain viable; but how do they do it is the 64K question.

[JohnCovach]

I sometimes wonder if Heritage is one of those companies most people will only discover after it's gone.  I really hope they can "live long and prosper," however.

[Thundersteel]

I sometimes wonder if Heritage is one of those companies most people will only discover after it's gone.

 

I've been wondering the same thing about Tacoma Guitars. High quality, made in America, and lower priced than the major manufacturers. Too bad Fender killed them, too.

[JohnCovach]

A lot of people would agree with you on that.  It's interesting that Fender has handled Gretsch extremely well; they've pumped new life and much more visibility into that brand.  Think about where Gretsch was ten years ago compared to now.  I've heard a lot of opinions about Guild, but it does seem like that brand is far more visible now than it has been since the 70s. 

[tulk1]

$0.02 worth coming here. Best thing they could do is to bring a business man on board. One that knows how to advertise, get brand name recognition, deal with the dealers and the public from a buisiness perspective. Great as our original boys are, I feel they were never the "business" type. I can cook great tacos, even have my own salsa recipes. But that does not mean I know how to run a restaurant. Even the newest owner is not steeped in marketing or the guitar biz. He's a lawyer that always wanted to be part of the company. Same rules apply - he's not a musical instrument marketeer. We all know that Ren is the man out front, knows the industry quite well. With all he does, I'm not sure he has the time to dedicate to marketing for growth (i.e., the website). Assuming they even want to grow the biz. Could be they don't want to market it anymore than they currently are. Every guitar they make is sold. Really, how cool is that? Plus they will custom carve one for you - sometimes at no more $$s than the stock models. Personally I think they should concentrate more on quality control and be more responsive to their current dealers. That would do wonders for the buisiness side. Again, that is my $0.02.

[High Flying Bird]

Wasn't Heritage in trouble last year because they had too much business? 

[JohnCovach]

I think the issue with Heritage was that things were a bit disorganized and, as a consequence, they weren't getting as much done as they otherwise might have for the amount of work they were doing.

[yoslate]

Not to oversimplify but: To move to become other than just what they are will make them something else.  I don't think that shop will survive any sort of significant nor rapid change.  It's just too delicate and odd (I mean that in the most complimentary way).  I'm very concerned about the natural, inevitable, and imminent leave-taking of Jim, Marv, J.P., and Ren.  I think that's one of the reasons they're still there almost every day.  They understand the profound symbiosis between themselves, those walls, and everything that comes out of there.  I wish I had a lot more money to acquire what will certainly become "Golden Age of" instruments!  It's just all so special! 

[allmantrout]

My .02...

 

Change is good.  Radical change is dangerous.

 

Today- people buy from the internet and TO A LESSER DEGREE from Retailers.

 

Today- people want to go to your web site and be SOLD.

 

So- keep what is good (well documented herein) and change what can be better.

 

As far as the PEOPLE nearing retirement, one idea would be to focus on the components.  The tradition of using only the best wood material COULD be an angle.  I know I read where Joe Walsh and Dickie Betts were very upset that "G" was using wood that was not aged very long.  When the aged wood returned- so did the artists and I'll bet so did more buyers return to buy those guitars.

 

People can leave behind the "secret sauce"; know how and "that's how they have always done it" tradition.

 

Selling every guitar they make is in fact a major accomplishment.  If they are happy with the product/profits where they are, I would question why I would want to change from an operations standpoint.  Having said that, the customer-facing Heritage; the web site and brochures and endorsements, would bring awareness to new buyers to create OPTIONS!  Options of growing or not; lowering or raising the price, new designs based on input from new players/dealers, etc.  Options are always good.

 

Lastly- when the boyz finally do retire, they had better set the stage for those coming in behind to keep the brand alive.  I think you do that by advertising/promoting the ideals/traditions and de-emphasize the people except to note that it was these group of fellas who laid the groundwork and set the stage.

 

Thank you to all who keep Heritage my favorite instrument.

[Kuz]

OK acouple of points.

 

1. Who says/knows that Heritage is hurting for business, going under, closing doors, and all this other crap that was posted earlier.

 

2. Maybe they don't want to get larger. They are making more guitars than ever.

 

3. The REAL reason they closed shop/ almost sold last year was because of the fire that forced them to close, lost a major supply of wood & machinery, and they had no income for 6 months due to this fire.

The mere fact that they could close shop for 6 months and still exist today is a testament that their marketing is better than we think. No one lost their job and every person agreed to come back.

Think that Gibby would survive 6 months with their doors shut?

 

4. Whose to say that Ren & the owners of Heritage have no intention of staying open another 10 years?

Maybe they have a pack to make their 25th Anniversary guitar,... then all retire.

[JohnCovach]

Just curious: have you read any of the interviews and/or news stories about Heritage published in the last year or so?  There were many threads here on all this, with links to local stories and contributions from people who had spoken directly with Heritage about the shutdown, the sale of the company, the addition of Vince, some of the problems with production, etc.

[Kuz]

Just curious: have you read any of the interviews and/or news stories about Heritage published in the last year or so?  There were many threads here on all this, with links to local stories and contributions from people who had spoken directly with Heritage about the shutdown, the sale of the company, the addition of Vince, some of the problems with production, etc.

 

I have heard and read everything.

 

But more importantly I have visited Parsons St about 6 times in the last two years and have spoken with Ren, Marv, and Vince directly.

 

I consider them friends and call them regularly. They are marking me a guitar as we speak. Vince has given me his personal cell # (don't ask , I'm not giving it).

 

Have you visited the factory, took a tour, or spoke with the guys?

 

What would you like to know? Maybe I can help clear up some of the confusion.

[JohnCovach]

Wow, why didn't we all think of just asking you first?  Ah, but then we would have to trust the accuracy of your understanding and perception.  :wink:

[Kuz]

OK you win.

 

You are right.

 

I believe you asked me if I read and heard all the sources you quoted and I answered you honestly. I also added that I got first hand info from the owners mouths.

 

BTW, I answered your questions, but you didn't answer mine.

 

Your right, I'm wrong.

[JohnCovach]

Nah, it's not like that, Kuz.  I think it's great that you have such a tremendous dedication to Heritage and the guys who run it.  But message boards are full of people expressing opinions, some informed and some very much uninformed.  What I take from this is that people care enough about the guitars to talk about them. 

 

I'm not going to tell you who I've spoken with about Heritage, because a lot of what I've heard is confidential.  You know, the guys at Heritage might not be the best source of information about some of the things they are not doing well.  And members here who have never spoken with the Heritage guys or taken the tour will have interesting ideas about how to market the guitars.  Since you have read the stories, you know that some of what people have said here comes from remarks made by the Heritage crew (maybe that's not the "crap" you were referring to).  Nobody's running down Heritage or its people here; we're all big-time Heritage fans and fervent supporters.

 

A big +1 for being as fervent a Heritage supporter as anybody here!

[Kuz]

Hey JC,

 

First I'm sorry that my posts my have come out combatant, abrasive, or aggressive. That is not what HOC is about and I believe that is what separates this place from other forums.

 

I also do agree with you that there is a lot of misinformation out there. Most of what I read here and at other sites is just plain wrong about Heritage Guitars issues past & present.

 

I do feel what I posted is factual and has been confirmed from the owners mouths and the many times I have visited the plant (no not just during the tour) and on the phone.

 

Everyone has a right to post their opinion. I value yours (even if it is one I do not share) and apologize for my pissy attitude.

[jmb27]

Very interesting thread. Truly made me stop and think about all the things that affect how a company exists and does business.

 

I don't have any new suggestions or ideas. I just hope they keep on makin' good guitars and keep the skills, karma and coolness flowing well into the future.  8)

[unikh550]

Agree with Shook. One of these days, want to buy a used natural Super Eagle like the one Elderly's has for $3,000. Wish I had it. Afraid all prices would go up if they became big. Amazing how many guitar manufacturers have raised their prices in this down economy. What will they do when we have disposable income?- Charles