duhvoodooman Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Unless you've been marooned on a desert island for the past 20 years or so, you've no doubt heard the legend (or hype, some would say) surrounding the Klon Centaur pedal. Originally introduced by builder Bill Finnegan in 1994, these overdrives have attained near mythical status, and command prices in the $1000 - $2000 range on eBay. But they're sought out and used by some of the world's most influential players, adding to their reputation...and price! You can read more about the Klon pedal HERE. In recent years, a number of "Klone" circuits have appeared, mostly based upon a reverse-engineered schematic posted on the web by Martin Chittum in 2009. I've built a couple of these myself, and they sound quite good. Not $1500 good, but a very nice pedal that can be used as a boost, overdrive, or some of both. To my knowledge, all of these offerings have been in the form of a PCB, so you still have to source all the components and hardware yourself, and then solder and assemble it. Plenty of us effects DIY'ers have happily done just that, but this route is clearly not for everybody. But that all changes as of this week. Buildyourownclone.com, a well-respected maker of DIY pedal kits, has just introduced their own "Klone" kit, the Silver Pony. This is available as a complete kit--just solder and assemble--and can be purchased either with an unfinished pre-drilled enclosure or a nice painted & silkscreened enclosure. BYOC owner/chief technical dude Keith Vonderhulls painstakingly compared the Chittum schematic to his own "silver era" Klon pedal and found a number of errors which he corrected in his own version of the circuit. He also auditioned a number of different germanium clipping diodes in the circuit, since he found the sound of the 1N34A diode that is commonly used for this duty to be a poor match to the tone of his Klon. But he found a certain type of Russian military surplus diode to be an excellent match and is using them in the kit. It's an interesting side note that Finnegan had long held that he had used "secret" diodes in the Klon that were a key to it's signal clipping character. Looks like the secret may be out! (Sorry for "geeking out" on you all here, but I'm seriously into this stuff!) Anyway, "the proof is in the pudding", as they say, so check out this A/B test video that Keith posted on YouTube. If you can hear any significant difference between the Silver Pony and the original silver Klon, you've got a w-a-a-a-y-y better ear than I do. The new Silver Pony kit goes for between $72 and $93 plus shipping, depending upon your choice of enclosure (none, predrilled, or fully finished). It is in stock and available as I type this, but I expect them to go quickly, since there is a lot of demand out there among guitarists who want the Klon sound without dropping a grand or more on eBay or $270 on Finnegan's new KTR Klon replacement. For those of you who are interested in the pedal but are not DIY'ers (though all it really takes is some decent soldering skills and the ability to follow detailed pictorial directions), I would expect Axeandyoushallreceive.com to shortly be offering pre-assembled versions of the Silver Pony for a modest upcharge. They are the "official builder" of pre-assembled BYOC kits for non-DIY'ers. Incidentally, though I am a long-time moderator at the BYOC forums and a strong proponent of their excellent products, I do not benefit financially from any of this. Just want it to be clear that I have no other agenda here than to share information with other players who enjoy using high quality effects pedals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Well .... using my one good ear and playing thru the studio rig - I can hear a very slight shift in the mid-lows on the BYOC. And I would seriously doubt that every Klon sounded exactly the same. Other than that, sounded like the same pedal to me. Thanks for sharing. Uh, didn't know you were associated with the BYOC crowd. There are some real dandy kits over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Uh, didn't know you were associated with the BYOC crowd. There are some real dandy kits over there. There are, indeed. Keith has put together a very extensive product line--mostly clones of well-known vintage circuits, but several with added enhancements and a couple of very original effects. The quality of the kits is second to none--his PCB's, in particular, are of sterling quality. He uses double sided, through-hole eyelet construction, which make the PCB's extremely durable--very important for novices who often make errors and have to de-solder and re-solder components. You really have to work at it to lift a trace on one of these puppies. I got started on BYOC kits back in 2007 with their "Screamer" TS808 clone and was instantly hooked. That was several hundred of these boxes ago. I was building, modding and selling some of the BYOC kits for awhile, until the time drain got to be too much. If any of you ever came across a "Zonkin' Yellow Screamer" (fat chance!!), that was my take on their outstanding Overdrive II kit. But I did manage to finance much of my modest guitar and amp collection from the proceeds of those pedal sales. BTW, to mention a couple of their particularly noteworthy recent product releases, the BYOC Parametric Overdrive (their take on the rather obscure mid-'80s Pearl OD-05) is an outstanding and very flexible dirt box, and the Mega-Chorus & Vibrato is just packed with cool features and modulated tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've been testing a Klon clone called the Mythical Overdrive, and it scary close to the original Klon. One of my buddies has an extremely good sounding silver Klon, we A/B-ed them, and there wasn't a sound we couldn't duplicate. I actually thought the Mythical Overdrive has more range than his Klon. He agreed. I think the pedal cost me $149. Mine was from a special run of 20 that used Telefunken 0126 diodes, which are the builders favorites when clipping, but I've read that all of the versions he builds will nail the Klon tone! Here's a thread on the Gearpage, and this is where I found out about the pedal... http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1411034 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsand Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 My ears must be better than I've been giving them credit. Just read the reviews on the vid. Seems I'm not the only one that detected (or imagined! most likely) a slight mid-range/mid-lows bump. Don't really care about that. Just surprised my good ear is still that good! Oh, and I remember the Zonkin' Yellow Screamer. Not that I had one. Just remember it from reading BYOC stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I can hear the mid bump too, and frankly one of the biggest reasons for using a Klon is to push a gained up amp into overdrive without changing the sonic signature of the amp, and I think that's where most clones fail. The clipping of the Klon is an added benefit and most clones do that alright. A direct into Garageband demo is not a good way to show the pedal's capabilities. IMNSHO the Electro Harmonix "Soul Food" at $66.99 will get you as close as the BYOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 My ears must be better than I've been giving them credit. Just read the reviews on the vid. Seems I'm not the only one that detected (or imagined! most likely) a slight mid-range/mid-lows bump. Don't really care about that. Just surprised my good ear is still that good! You mentioned playing it "through the studio rig." I'll bet that helped! I used a pair of cheap headphones through my laptop here at work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I can hear the mid bump too, and frankly one of the biggest reasons for using a Klon is to push a gained up amp into overdrive without changing the sonic signature of the amp, and I think that's where most clones fail. The clipping of the Klon is an added benefit and most clones do that alright. A direct into Garageband demo is not a good way to show the pedal's capabilities. IMNSHO the Electro Harmonix "Soul Food" at $66.99 will get you as close as the BYOC. Interesting that a $66.99 pedal can come that close! That's a heck of a bargain. What do you think about the Hermida Zendrive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 What do you think about the Hermida Zendrive? FWIW, the Zendrive is based upon the Tube Screamer overdrive circuit with a number of differences: The input and output transistor buffers have been removed. The tone control is much simplified--it's a passive treble cut typical of the tone control in many effect pedals. The diode arrangement in the clipping stage is different, with a combination of MOSFETs and Schottky diodes; it's also asymmetric, unlike a TS. I believe this is what's responsible for the Zendrive's smooth distortion character. The "Voice" control is an interesting adaptation of the RC filter used in the TS circuit that's largely responsible for the characteristic mid-range "hump" in frequency response. The resistor in that filter has two functions--it's one of the main determinants of the available gain of the circuit, and together with the associated capacitor, it sets the bass rolloff frequency, i.e. the frequency value where the gain applied to the lower frequencies begins to noticeably decrease. Instead of a fixed resistor, the Zendrive employs a 10K pot; when the resistance is turned down, the circuit gain increases, but so does the bass rolloff frequency, so less bass comes through in the overdriven signal. Turn the pot resistance up, and you'll get more bass response, but at the cost of available maximum gain, which keeps things from getting too muddy. So the "Voice" descriptor for this added control pot is well named. Hope that's some help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 FWIW, the Zendrive is based upon the Tube Screamer overdrive circuit with a number of differences: The input and output transistor buffers have been removed. The tone control is much simplified--it's a passive treble cut typical of the tone control in many effect pedals. The diode arrangement in the clipping stage is different, with a combination of MOSFETs and Schottky diodes; it's also asymmetric, unlike a TS. I believe this is what's responsible for the Zendrive's smooth distortion character. The "Voice" control is an interesting adaptation of the RC filter used in the TS circuit that's largely responsible for the characteristic mid-range "hump" in frequency response. The resistor in that filter has two functions--it's one of the main determinants of the available gain of the circuit, and together with the associated capacitor, it sets the bass rolloff frequency, i.e. the frequency value where the gain applied to the lower frequencies begins to noticeably decrease. Instead of a fixed resistor, the Zendrive employs a 10K pot; when the resistance is turned down, the circuit gain increases, but so does the bass rolloff frequency, so less bass comes through in the overdriven signal. Turn the pot resistance up, and you'll get more bass response, but at the cost of available maximum gain, which keeps things from getting too muddy. So the "Voice" descriptor for this added control pot is well named. Hope that's some help.... Wow, thanks! Much more info than I can grasp. But I bet Robbin Ford knew all of that technical stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Wow, thanks! Much more info than I can grasp. But I bet Robbin Ford knew all of that technical stuff. Happy to help. With the modifications made in the Zendrive relative to the original TS circuit, there's really not that much to it. Here are a couple of photos of a circuit clone of the Zendrive I built for myself, using an etched PCB I was able to obtain. Not a lot of components on that board, as you can see--mostly air in that enclosure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've been testing a Klon clone called the Mythical Overdrive, and it scary close to the original Klon. One of my buddies has an extremely good sounding silver Klon, we A/B-ed them, and there wasn't a sound we couldn't duplicate. I actually thought the Mythical Overdrive has more range than his Klon. He agreed. I think the pedal cost me $149. Mine was from a special run of 20 that used Telefunken 0126 diodes, which are the builders favorites when clipping, but I've read that all of the versions he builds will nail the Klon tone! Here's a thread on the Gearpage, and this is where I found out about the pedal... http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1411034 Funny, that's the one I bought around 3 or 4 months ago. One guy builds them all I believe. I was about to buy a new Soul Food pedal because i just want a little clean boost (not good with the terminology). Some cork sniffer type on TGP said just buy a Mythical Overdrive and be done with it. My instinct said go for it. Very happy with it. Was around $125 I think. Mine has a toggle for two different chips forget the details. There was one for $10 more but it was just a cosmetic upgrade of some sort. Well built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Just looked at the Mythical Overdrive pamphlet the switch toggles between "Telefunken OA128 diodes or 1N34A diodes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Now, this is funny.... The chatter about this Mythical Drive (the name sounded familiar) prompted me to look into it a bit online. While doing so, I came across this posted "gut shot": I immediately got that ol' deja vu feeling--damn, that looks awfully familiar!! So I popped the back off of my own Klon clone, and.... Same PCB (albeit black instead of red) and an almost identical enclosure layout. About the only difference is that I didn't install a diode clipping switch in mine--the diode positions on my board are socketed to allow changing to different types. Come to think of it, I shared graphical copies of that enclosure layout with anyone who PM'ed me on the forum. Which finally got me to add 2 + 2 and realize that the Mythical Overdrive guy, Ken Dalton, is one of our BYOC forum regulars!! Geez, I'm thick sometimes.... I got my board through a "group buy" on the BYOC forums back in early 2012. Apparently, Ken is using that same PCB design for his pedal. So, apparently I own a Mythical Overdrive and just wasn't aware of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Now, this is funny.... The chatter about this Mythical Drive (the name sounded familiar) prompted me to look into it a bit online. While doing so, I came across this posted "gut shot": I immediately got that ol' deja vu feeling--damn, that looks awfully familiar!! So I popped the back off of my own Klon clone, and.... Same PCB (albeit black instead of red) and an almost identical enclosure layout. About the only difference is that I didn't install a diode clipping switch in mine--the diode positions on my board are socketed to allow changing to different types. Come to think of it, I shared graphical copies of that enclosure layout with anyone who PM'ed me on the forum. Which finally got me to add 2 + 2 and realize that the Mythical Overdrive guy, Ken Dalton, is one of our BYOC forum regulars!! Geez, I'm thick sometimes.... I got my board through a "group buy" on the BYOC forums back in early 2012. Apparently, Ken is using that same PCB design for his pedal. So, apparently I own a Mythical Overdrive and just wasn't aware of it! Looks pretty close to me, I wonder if all the values are the same (besides the diodes). I know mine is different because it uses Telefunken 0126s but I've heard the ones with the 0128s and they sound good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Great post! Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Looks pretty close to me, I wonder if all the values are the same (besides the diodes). I know mine is different because it uses Telefunken 0126s but I've heard the ones with the 0128s and they sound good too. Quite certain than the component values are the same, since we used the same PCB/BOM source. Like many others, this clone board was based directly upon the Chittum schematic. Swapping out different diode types to alter the character of the signal clipping is a common practice with pedal makers. The diversity of diode types and combinations is almost endless. I see that the Telefunken diodes are silicon types, so they would have a higher forward voltage threshold than the germanium diodes typically used in Klon clones. This results in less signal being clipped to ground, so the output volume is higher and the signal is less distorted and compressed. This is why they're referred to as having more "headroom", though it isn't really headroom in the sense that the term is usually applied to amps, since generating some degree of signal clipping is the whole point of using them. I've never used the Telefunken diodes, so I'll have to ask Ken what about them he finds to be different/desirable relative to the more commonly used silicon diode types (1N914, 1N4148, 1N4001, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 A direct into Garageband demo is not a good way to show the pedal's capabilities. IMNSHO the Electro Harmonix "Soul Food" at $66.99 will get you as close as the BYOC. I must respectfully disagree. While I realize that running a boost or overdrive pedal into a tube amp is a great way to push it into breakup, doing so dilutes the characteristics of the pedal with the sound of the overdriven amp. What you're hearing in that Gearmanndude demo is largely the break-up of his Dr. Z amp. While I don't disagree that the two pedals in combination with his setup sound very similar, his demo doesn't really isolate the sound of the two pedals very well. That's exactly why Keith chose to run directly into Audiobox/Garageband for his demo--you're hearing the character of the two pedals much more clearly that way. To illustrate my point, check out this different YouTube demo of the Soul Food vs. a silver Klon. Here, it's a Jazzmaster into a Hiwatt, so a much cleaner sounding setup. You'll notice that the Klon and Soul Food exhibit much more audible differences here, and the player has to tweak the Soul Food's control settings pretty substantially to dial in a more Klon-like tone. Not that the Soul Food isn't a very credible Klon mimic and an outstanding value at $67, but it's not as "dead nuts on" as that Gearmanndude demo might lead you to believe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbqnmB_MxvI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I see that the Telefunken diodes are silicon types, so they would have a higher forward voltage threshold than the germanium diodes typically used in Klon clones. This results in less signal being clipped to ground, so the output volume is higher and the signal is less distorted and compressed. Nope, the 0126 are germanium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesultra Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I like stuff that sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I must respectfully disagree. While I realize that running a boost or overdrive pedal into a tube amp is a great way to push it into breakup, doing so dilutes the characteristics of the pedal with the sound of the overdriven amp. What you're hearing in that Gearmanndude demo is largely the break-up of his Dr. Z amp. While I don't disagree that the two pedals in combination with his setup sound very similar, his demo doesn't really isolate the sound of the two pedals very well. That's exactly why Keith chose to run directly into Audiobox/Garageband for his demo--you're hearing the character of the two pedals much more clearly that way. Unless you're playing onstage with garageband then those tests mean nothing to me, just as germandudes test is flawed in the opposite direction. I think the test has be done in the way the player is going use the peda,l that's why I panned the garageband idea. For those recording with garageband with the pedal straight in to the recorder I can see the test being helpful. But as I said before, the reason Klons have reached mythical status is the way they react with an amplifier that is "almost" there, not already overdriven like germandudes test. So a proper test would be to get a good tube amp set just before the verge of breakup and let the Klon and it clones push it over the top. If I had a Silver Klon at my house I would do it here. But unfortunately the Klon is about 40 miles from here and my schedule is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Nope, the 0126 are germanium. Right you are! It's the Telefunken OA128's that are silicon. Those OA126's look interesting! I poked around a bit on the web and found that the OA126 is actually a germanium Zener diode, with a forward voltage threshold about twice (~0.6V) that of a typical germanium diode like the 1N34A, so it will still give the higher output & less compression. That FVT value is typical silicon diode territory, but I'd expect that they probably have different turn on/turn off characteristics and hence a different sound. I also see that they've gotten rare as hen's teeth and are commanding absurd prices on the web (~$20 ea.). Apparently, Ken isn't offering them any more in the Mythical OD for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Right you are! It's the Telefunken OA128's that are silicon. Those OA126's look interesting! I poked around a bit on the web and found that the OA126 is actually a germanium Zener diode, with a forward voltage threshold about twice (~0.6V) that of a typical germanium diode like the 1N34A, so it will still give the higher output & less compression. That FVT value is typical silicon diode territory, but I'd expect that they probably have different turn on/turn off characteristics and hence a different sound. I also see that they've gotten rare as hen's teeth and are commanding absurd prices on the web (~$20 ea.). Apparently, Ken isn't offering them any more in the Mythical OD for this reason. That's exactly what Ken told me, he refuses to pay that much for the diodes. I may buy the BYOC and see how it rates against Ken's version. I'll build it when my schedule slows down (first two days of Sept). The build looks fairly easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhvoodooman Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's exactly what Ken told me, he refuses to pay that much for the diodes. I may buy the BYOC and see how it rates against Ken's version. I'll build it when my schedule slows down (first two days of Sept). The build looks fairly easy. Yeah, it's a very straightforward build. And you can always socket the two diode positions on the PCB, if you want to try different types. Another alternative is to install a DPDT toggle switch with different diodes soldered across each pair of throw lugs and wire the pole lugs back into the diode eyelets on the board. You could even go with an on-off-on DPDT toggle so that the middle position would be a "no diode clipping" setting. Might be interesting to see how that sounds in the Klon circuit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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