Your Favorite Humbuckers. What makes them "better"?

[barrymclark]

For me, what makes the perfect humbucker is whether or not I like it in the guitar I am playing. That is it. I don't like buying pickups for a guitar unless I just HAVE to and even then I try to replace what I had before.

 

I will no longer buy a guitar that I think could work if only I did this to it. It is too much a sum of the parts thing for me to bother with it. If I don't like it right then... then it is either being sold (bought it on faith) or not getting bought at all.

 

I have spent the last several years trying to hone my simplistic approach to guitar/amp buying. This is where it has led me. Guitars and amps are a dime a dozen (not in cost obviously but they are just everywhere in about every conceivable configuration) but there is only one me. I go with what truly moves me and that's it. Nothing else. Nothing that I think could move me. I pick up a guitar or an amp and I play. I don't ask what pickups are in it or tubes or transformers. I just play. Now, I will do my research as I don't want to lay down hard cash for something that has inherent issues. Outside of that, I don't care.

 

There was a time that I did really and truly care what pickups they were. I am not saying that my approach is better or worse. It is just mine.

[Gitfiddler]

One of the better pickup comparison tests was done a few months ago by Guitar Player magazine. Can't recall who came out on top, but I recall Lollar Imperials, Fralin Pure PAF and Throbak did exceptionally well to their ears.

[soybean]

DiMarzio "virtual" and "air" pickups are always worth checking out. Why? because of the reduced magnetic pull… technology they have developed which really helps tone and intonation (especially on Strats).

 

from their description of the Air Classic humbucker:

 

We love the sound of late 1950s humbuckers, but we didn't want to simply imitate them by using Alnico 2 or “aged” Alnico 5 magnets. Airbucker™ technology was created to capture all of the best sonic qualities of vintage humbuckers while avoiding the technical problems. The Air Classic™ has the same sweet sound as a classic humbucker, but Airbucker™ technology permits us to use a more reliable full-strength Alnico 5 magnet and still reduce string-pull to increase sustain and sensitivity. The result is an almost vocal, three-dimensional sound that jumps off the string faster and stays true as it sustains. The sense of touch and control this provides will offer you an unequalled ability to create your own sound.

[FredZepp]

I enjoy the tone of a large variety of humbuckers... each different, but all have a purpose. I've got SD '59s , Seth Lovers, 57 Classic, SD Jazz, JB , Burstbucker 1, SD BlackBacks, original T-Tops, Manalishi PGreen , old DiMarzio PAF, Super Distortion, etc

 

One of my favorites for an open , articulate PAF sound are Sheptone Tribute PAF's .... sound great in my 157.

[slider313]

The Dreaded Mudbucker
When a Strat or Tele or even a P90 just isn’t enough, there’s nothing like the gut punch of a humbucker to get your point across. On the other hand, a frequent complaint about humbuckers is they are muddy, they cancel out too much of the really high frequencies along with the hum to get good clarity. While a lot of this can be fixed by slight adjustments to picking technique*, there is some truth to the charge – the average humbucker really could use some more presence and detail to bring out its full potential.

*(Go back and forth between Strats and LP’s a few times over the course of a month or two and you’ll discover what a curious thing it is that suddenly every humbucker ever made is too muddy and every single coil too thin – til you naturally alter your technique a little.)

In most cases this problem is due far less to the humbucker’s nature than to bad design and manufacturing techniques: Overpotting or potting with wax mixed too thick, covers, baseplates, screws and slugs made of tone-killing alloys, or inattention to the importance of coil patterns are just some of the problems that contribute to the bum rap the humbucker often gets. Correcting these errors is easy enough, and it helps a lot. But there’s another level of humbucker tone even beyond that. I always thought humbuckers had the potential to be the ultimate pickup design for 3D complexity and sonic depth, because if you could get some of those cancelled high frequencies back and in just the right proportion, the humbucker would cover such a huge frequency range – like being able to look down from the top of a mountain and see all the way to the valley floor without any clouds or haze in the way. If only a humbucker could be made that combined its natural beef with P90 detail and clarity…

I’ve found a way.

One part of my recipe is coil mismatching (winding one coil with significantly more turns of wire than the other), which helps by releasing some of those high frequencies back into the signal chain, and without a noticeable increase in noise. My bridge humbuckers (aka Slugbuckers) are all wound with a stronger slug coil for more midrange grunt while my necks (Woodbuckers) are always wound with the screw coil stronger for a more bell-like tone.

The downside is that due to the mismatch, you will get a bit of hum on high gain settings, particularly with my bridge pickups which have a wider coil disparity than my necks. However it's nowhere near as bad as single coil so no worries, and the increased P90-like clarity and sizzle on top is well worth it.

Mismatched coils is hardly an original idea and I know of at least one winder who takes it to a greater extreme than I do. But my utilization of this concept and its combination with other ingredients is unique, at least as far as I know. I am probably the only winder who does this so exclusively; the formula works so well that outside of R&D I’ve never made a humbucker with even coils and so far I have no plans to ever do so.

The Dreaded Ice Pick
Another complaint about humbuckers, particularly vintage output models intended for the bridge position, is a midrange scoop that exaggerates the treble (the dreaded “icepick in the ear”). Such pickups usually lack the midrange warmth and guts to keep the treble from standing out so strong. In many cases they double down on this problem by emphasizing the most unpleasant combination of frequencies in the treble range.

This is often the result of a far too neat wind pattern, the kind that makes electrical engineers to salute and guitar players cry. It makes a pickup sound both harsh and 2-dimensional, like when your ears are plugged from a cold and you can’t tell if a sound is coming from right next to you or a block away. Often this problem is made even worse by the choice of materials – polepieces, slugs and keeper bars made of steel alloys that only sharpen that icepick. The result is a pickup that drives guitar players crazy as they constantly adjust their EQ in vain – because they are STUCK WITH A PICKUP THAT PARADOXICALLY SOUNDS BOTH TOO BRIGHT AND TOO DARK AT THE SAME TIME!

THAT is what got me into winding…

Handwound vs. Pure Handwound
There is a lot of confusion out there about what exactly constitutes a “handwound” pickup. There may be some disagreements out on the fringes of the winder community, but at least 90% of us consider a pickup handwound if the traverse of the wire back and forth on the spinning bobbin is hand-guided. It is still a handwound pickup if the bobbin is turned by machine. In fact, hand-guided/machine-turned is no subtype or exception; it is the essence of handwound. Probably 99.999% of handwound pickups are made with machine turned bobbins. Anyway, by this definition, ALL of my pickups are handwound.

But I have a line of humbuckers that falls into that .001%. My Pure Handwound line differs from my regular wind in that the wire is wrapped on the bobbin ENTIRELY BY HAND. There is no machine used to turn the bobbin or anything else other than a clamp to hold the bobbin in place – my hands and the wire are the only moving parts. It’s a lot of work but the sound difference is worth it. The regular wind has great dynamics, harmonics, sparkle, clarity and detail, and is very sensitive to height and polepiece adjustments. The Pure Handwound significantly magnifies all these qualities and somehow even adds some sustain to the mix. The string separation is as good as it gets, which means you can strum a Pure Handwound neck pickup as hard as you want, mud-free. Faked double-leads, like when you play southern rock but you’re the only guitar player in the band, sound almost like two separate guitars.

I’d like to pretend I’ve studied all this in a lab with oscilloscopes and I could give you charts and graphs explaining it all, but I really have no idea why this works. It just does. I got the idea from opening up a Timbucker a few years ago and discovering a wind pattern that to my mind could only have been laid on the bobbin by hand. A machine turned bobbin couldn’t create this pattern, what I call the crop circle of wind patterns. Tim White, creator and purveyor of Timbuckers, has since called it quits and I’ve never talked to him about whether he did in fact lay the wire on by hand or otherwise independently verified that he did, although hand-wrapping would explain why his waiting list was nearly 2 years by the end (hand wrapping takes a lot of time). I also make no claim to be able to duplicate his pattern – I still don’t know how he did it.

What I do know is that, like his method, whatever it was, my hand-wrapping technique also creates patterns that can’t be duplicated with a machine turned bobbin and the results are extremely close to his, especially in terms of clarity, dynamics, detail and string separation, mine sounding maybe a touch smoother on top than his.

The regular wind is getting closer all the time and if I ever figure a way to get that sound with a machine-turned bobbin, you can kiss the Pure Handwound line goodbye because it would save you money and turnaround time and me a lot extra work. Til then, the difference is worth it. Humbuckers are so far the only type of pickup line where I offer the Pure Handwound option.

I strongly recommend your Pure Handwound be made with no cover because even the best covers shunt some of the PH magic to ground. Plus it’ll save you the cost of the cover.

Magnets

For humbuckers, I am pretty much married to Alnico 2 in the bridge and A2 or A3 in the neck for PAF-range pickups. There are exceptions that you can sometimes talk me into something else, depending on your needs. UA5 (unoriented Alnico 5) is showing some promise for certain applications, particularly for P90’s. A4 may well be used in some lower output humbucker winds. Alnico 8 and Alnico 9 are available for higher output models and for other atypical applications.

I recently picked up a pair of used Zhangbuckers. They were underwound, which I prefer, and come in at 7.1K neck and 8.1k bridge. These have a very "dry" tone and immediately reminded me of that "Dickey Betts" sound. The price is very nice for the machine wound version. A sleeper pickup and a great bang for the buck AFAIC.

[jimsoloway]

I currently have a DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF in every guitar I own and I've had them in coulees guitar that I've owned and that we built. It's a neutral enough PAF type pickup that I've always managed to get working in any guitar it's been in. I like the note separation and It's exceptionally quiet. Perhaps I could find a pickup that's better suited to a specific guitar but that usually means a lot of swapping and chasing for a very small difference and I've never really thought that was worth unless your current pickup really sucks. So it gives me an easy answer with a minimum of effort. I like that.

[redshark]

My personal favorite PAF style pickups are the Throbak DT102, Fralin pure PAF's and WCR crossroad-darkburst set. Yes, in that order, my #1 guitar H-150LW has a set of Fralin pure PAF's and everywhere I go people compliment the tone so there you go. I would rather have the DT102 which sounds a bit better but not 220 better!!

[Divewelder]

Another Pickup winder here in Michigan is Kevin at Fuelie pickups .

He has nailed the vintage PAF sound

I've got a couple sets in different guitars including a Gibson and PRS that have been amazing .

And now with this new to me Heritage H150 CM Ultra. ill be putting a set in it . Not that the HRW pickups are bad just not the sound I'm looking for.

[AP515]

I know I'm going to be in the minority here but, I have always been fond of the ol' Duncan '59. I know they're considered to be rather vanilla by most, but I like 'em.

We'll play in that sandbox together. I like 59's. I think Seth's are out in front but only by a little. I now have two 150's. I use the Seth loaded one for warm balanced tone and the 59 loaded one for more cutting solos. But I could use them in the opposite mode and still have a smile on my face.

[barrymclark]

On the Heritage guitars I have, one had a pair of Seth Lovers (H575) and the other has a Heritage #1 floater in it (mahogany Eagle).

 

The two guitars are different enough as it is, but I'd day the difference between them is stereotypical. The floater is more present sounding, low output and very clean. The set Seth Lover (I really only use the neck pickup) is darker, notably higher output and more squished. Can't say I like one more than the other. Just depends on the mood.

[bluesguitar1972]

Ah, the eternal quest for "that" tone.

There can be huge differences in tone between pups. I've tried a lot and for me, it would be hard to really describe what it is I hear in my mind as good, but generally I'm looking for a lower output Humbucker for a vintage tone. I've had good luck with Sheptones (actually, have a set on the way for my 2010 LP Std, that's also getting a wiring harness) Wolftones, and Tom Shorts. I'm not especially a Duncan pup fan. The Seth Lovers (fav Duncans I've tried, and had a couple sets) in my Heritage do a decent job, but probably wouldn't be what I would have bought.

[Rod]

Thanks for all replies! Roughly tabulating results, Throbacks have the lead. I'm surprised there's not more love for the various SD offerings. Seems that Seymour Duncan probably has the best chance of accurately recreating the original PAF from the standpoint of resources and personal experience, which points toward another point. This is not necessarily a contest to see who can recreate the original PAF. What we're all looking for is the "best" tone. Most of us probably consider the original to be somehow the best, but few of us have ever heard one or played one. I haven't, and I would have no idea how authentic any of them are. Taking that one step further, I'm not sure I'd like the original better that some of those readily available today.

 

I can be a sucker for the creative descriptions. For one thing, it's sometimes all I have to go by. Also, I think that there are a lot of people who can hear things that I can't. I know there are a lot of people who claim to be able to hear things I can't. I'll also admit to the placebo factor, where something I perceive as cool (like those Zhang Buckers described above) or something I paid a lot of money for causes me to think it's better. When you get right down to it, that's probably all that matters anyway. Real or perceived, if whatever I get out of playing the guitar is enhanced by a set of pickups, that's all I really want. I'm leaning hard toward the Throback SLE101's.

[kidsmoke]

interesting issue to me, the Throbak vs Seth argument.

 

Same design, by Seth Lover.

 

They are made using the same materials.

 

They are wound on the same machine (Duncan also uses a Leesona from Parsons St)

 

yet somehow the Throbak get's the nod.

 

I ran down this path as well. I ended up with Sheptone Tributes. They cost a fraction of the others, those who know (i am not one) say they sound every bit as "authentic" as the original, and my money pays the mortgage of the man who's name is on them, who incidentally also took my order, wound, wrote up the spec/test sheet, and slapped the label on the box. I absolutely LOVE them and what ever sound I want, I seek with the knobs on the guitar or the other equipment.

 

I also have Fralins in a 150 and Larrivee hand wounds in a Larrivee. All USA made guitars with Handwound P'ups. All different. All Excellent. Good luck with your search.

[slider313]

interesting issue to me, the Throbak vs Seth argument.

 

Same design, by Seth Lover.

 

They are made using the same materials.

 

They are wound on the same machine (Duncan also uses a Leesona from Parsons St)

 

yet somehow the Throbak get's the nod.

 

 

True but, give seven chefs the same ingredients to make a beef stew and each one will taste a bit different!

[smaj]

There are so many good ones, but I'm with Jimsoloway, the Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAF's are great for the money.

[TalismanRich]

True but, give seven chefs the same ingredients to make a beef stew and each one will taste a bit different!

 

The other side of the question is which beef stew is the right one. Answer.... all of them. Its just what you like best that makes one preferable and that is purely a personal choice. There is no absolute "beef stew" and there is no absolute "tone". For that matter, there's no absolute PAF. Folks who have compared multiple 59 LPs with original PAFs will tell you that they vary by quite a bit.

 

I like Seth Lovers, and I like the Alnico Pro IIs. I also like the Shallers in my 535. They are all different, but that's what I like about them.

[yuominae]

TO add my .02.

 

I'm with the OP in that when I listen to a bunch of pup demos I hardly can tell any difference. And then I always wonder if it's even going to work in my guitar with my setup...

In general I like A2 pickups better than A5s, because I find them a bit warmer and a bit grittier. I think I also prefer unpotted over potted although I'm not entirely sure if the difference I think it makes isn't just a difference between the pups I listened to...

 

As for brands, at the moment I'm in love with Creamery UK pickups, because they're good value, sound great and the owner is nice to deal with.

[bolero]

I'm thinking about changing pickups on my Millennium Pro from the Seymour Duncan 59's it came with. I'm probably unable to articulate just exactly what I'd consider improvement. I read all the same stuff everybody else does, more of this, less of that. I listen to the sound clips. I can't really tell much difference. No point in telling me it's more about the player. I know that there is no pickup that's a substitute for talent. I'm still undeterred!

 

I can detect differences... sometimes. Maybe even detect something "special", but probably can't articulate it. My hearing is only ordinary, and my mastery of language is probably inadequate to describe the audible details I am able to discern. Sometimes I have to play something for a while before the differences are even detectable to me. In other words, it's going to have to sound a lot better for me to be able to tell it, but I want to give it a shot anyway.

 

I have the Millie with '59's, a 157 with Seth Lovers, and a 150 with HRW's. My favorite "tone" is the 157 with the Seths. The Millie Pro would be my favorite guitar, but it lacks... something... that the Seth's have. Honestly, part of it may be that I tend to think (with no real basis) that whatever came stock in the Millie could be improved upon just because it's stock, and that somehow with no improvement in my playing ability I'll sound "better" with a new whiz-bang pickup.

 

The obvious thing would seem to be to put Seths in the Millennium, but I've already got a guitar with that tone. I know that there'd be some difference between the Millie and the 157 because of construction, but I'm thinking it would be insignificant. I think I want something different for the Millie. My only preconceived idea is that there should be something quite extraordinary among the Seymour Duncan PAF's. I'm intrigued by the Pearly Gates. I'm not at all opposed to Throbaks or Bare Knuckles, but I don't want to throw another couple hundred bucks at them for no reason.

 

I play "at" blues, country, southern rock. I'm sure that most of y'all are better players than me, and more discerning of tone. I'll rely a lot on your opinions.

 

 

 

 

I'm a big fan of unpotted pickups, but I don't play much higain stuff so feedback isn't a big issue.

 

my faves: Wolfetone Legends, Lollar Imperials, Throbak SLE-101, JS Moore Premium Vintage

[fxdx99]

This series, Doug and Pat show, posted in other threads. Clip below starting at ~25:10 run a Heritage 150 with a variety of pickups (and a pot change) in sequence. Same amp, guitar, recording setup. Kinda demonstrates (to me) that there are a lot of great sounding pickups out there (variations on which frequencies are accentuated). Like others here, I'm a Throbak fan as well (they aren't in the clip, just sayin').

 

[bolero]

that green sweater equals +1 tone attribute.

 

even though he's not playing the guitar

[High Flying Bird]

The Schallers are not bad pups. They are clean so you can let your amp work on it's own without too many windings on the bobbins muddying things up.

 

I prefer SD Phat Cats in my guitars. If I ever need to sell a guitar you can drop any other pup in there without rerouteing wood. Not a humbucker not a P-90 but a foot print the same as a humbucker.

[proxmax]

my h-150 has now PRS 59/09s in.

a bit more output than normal PAFs but very vintage orientated.

never muddy, big balls and singing.

the best in there til now - and i tested a lot...

 

[proxmax]

this was with haussels in, great pups but lil too harsh with the ebony fretboard.

 

[yoslate]

Nothing at all "scientific" to offer here, just an anecdote. I've been working with a new band, in a role different for me. I'd become accustomed to playing behind others, on the down low, a role I'm very comfortable in. In this new context, I've been shoved up front...in a blues/rock band (The Faces, Robben Ford, John Hiatt, Albert Collins, Butterfield, Frankie Miller....), and I have to punch it out. I've gone from playing clean rhythm (535 and 150, through a Deluxe, no pedals), to a much more aggressive tone (boutique, master volume EL-34 amp, with a Port City clean boost [killer!], and a Wampler Euphoria which is pretty wound up). I've shown up at rehearsal with: Tele/Tom Short's Windy City's, 150/Tom Short's Marc Fords, 150/Wolfetones, 535/Seths, Strat/Lollars, Jack Dent/Throbak P-90's. The one guitar that the guys in the band always compliment when I have it, and always remark about when I show up with something else, is the Nash Les Paul (chambered) with Throbak SLE 101's. I take only one guitar to rehearsals, now.

[NoSnowBlower]

Nothing at all "scientific" to offer here, just an anecdote. I've been working with a new band, in a role different for me. I'd become accustomed to playing behind others, on the down low, a role I'm very comfortable in. In this new context, I've been shoved up front...in a blues/rock band (The Faces, Robben Ford, John Hiatt, Albert Collins, Butterfield, Frankie Miller....), and I have to punch it out. I've gone from playing clean rhythm (535 and 150, through a Deluxe, no pedals), to a much more aggressive tone (boutique, master volume EL-34 amp, with a Port City clean boost [killer!], and a Wampler Euphoria which is pretty wound up). I've shown up at rehearsal with: Tele/Tom Short's Windy City's, 150/Tom Short's Marc Fords, 150/Wolfetones, 535/Seths, Strat/Lollars, Jack Dent/Throbak P-90's. The one guitar that the guys in the band always compliment when I have it, and always remark about when I show up with something else, is the Nash Les Paul (chambered) with Throbak SLE 101's. I take only one guitar to rehearsals, now.

Hey!!!! Wasn't it you that was teasing me a week ago? JK

I have to come clean. I use LOTS of PAF's. Mostly SD,and Gibson. Seth's mostly. Throbak is the new standard for me though. I dunno. They just sound old,in a good way. OPEN, like they are on their last leg.