Your Favorite Humbuckers. What makes them "better"?

[StephenK]

Yoslate you could play anything and make it sound good. You are indeed a tasty player. I enjoyed listening to you at PSP this year. Don't sell your short. Peace...

[AP515]

Yoslate you could play anything and make it sound good. You are indeed a tasty player. I enjoyed listening to you at PSP this year. Don't sell your short. Peace...

Yoslate knows he's good, it's just not who he is to say it. He's a great guy too.

[slider313]

I'm heading over to Jack Briggs' place tomorrow to get another listen to the Tom Doyle pickups, "Doyle Coils". I was floored the first time. I recently installed a set of Ian Anderson A4's in my H140 and really liked the results. On a whim I ordered a set of A4 magnets from Throbak and installed them in the IA's. BIG difference! I'm going to A/B them with the Doyles along with the Zhangbuckers in my R8.

[yoslate]

I'm heading over to Jack Briggs' place tomorrow to get another listen to the Tom Doyle pickups, "Doyle Coils". I was floored the first time. I recently installed a set of Ian Anderson A4's in my H140 and really liked the results. On a whim I ordered a set of A4 magnets from Throbak and installed them in the IA's. BIG difference! I'm going to A/B them with the Doyles along with the Zhangbuckers in my R8.

 

Ears up, boys. Mike knows whereof he speaks! He's been around the block and has a great set of ears.

[Redsand]

 

Throbak- Dick Wagner Signature Set
DW-102B P.A.F. Specs.: Neck 8.3K Long A5 Unoriented, Bridge 9.2K Short A5

[DetroitBlues]

If you like the Seth's over the 59's, I suggest just a magnet swap.

[Redsand]

this was with haussels in, great pups but lil too harsh with the ebony fretboard.

 

[Rod]

If you like the Seth's over the 59's, I suggest just a magnet swap.

Just when I though this was getting to be a more and more expensive proposition, something that appeals to my cheap side!

 

I googled swapping magnets which seems easy enough. Looks like changing from Alnico 5's to Alnico 2's turns a '59 into a Seth Lover? About wax potting, can you just clean the wax out of the cover and make it unpotted?

[slider313]

I just got back from Jack Briggs' place. We compared my R8 with Zhangbucker A2's (7.0k neck and 8.0k bridge), my H140 with Ian Anderson A4's and Throbak magnets (6.9k neck and 7.9k bridge) and Jack's Avatar guitar with his own wind with magnets he "borrowed" from a set of Doyle Coils (6.8k neck and 7.7k bridge). There's something to be said about a good magnet. The pickups with the Doyle magnets had such a sweet sound and natural sustain; very close to Doyles own pickups. The H140 with the Throback magnets were very close to the Doyles and had slightly more "snap" on the bass strings. The Zhangbuckers in the R8 were good but the bass strings could sound a bit "mushy" especially on the first few frets. I know my ear prefers a good A4 magnet for a reason, they sound clear, sweet and pretty much even across the tonal spectrum. It looks like I'm going to have to order another set of Throbak A4's for the Zhangbuckers!

[slider313]

I'm a fan of lower wind pickups. The neck pickup needs to be clear, "hollow" and woody. You just don't get that with a higher wind. 6.8k-7.2k is where I feel the "magic" is in a neck pickup. For the bridge, I prefer anywhere from 7.8k-8.3k. Still clear but a with more mids and bass. Some may find a 7.8k bridge to be too bright but, hey, that why there's a tone control on your guitar. You can take off some treble, if your pickup is too bright, but you can't take off bass if your pickup is too fat and muddy to begin with. A good example would be the 59/09's that came with my DC22. The neck read 8.3k and the bridge 9.3k. They sounded so thick, unbalanced and undefined that I knew after two minutes of playing they would have to go.

 

Every guitar will be different. The woods will determine the basic platform from which to work. Some folks play with a light "touch" and some dig in with a heavy hand. What works for me may not work for you.

 

That said, the Doyle Coils are still the best sounding humbuckers I've ever had the pleasure to play.

[Gitfiddler]

Just to muddy the water a bit, check out the Stew Mac "Parsons Street PAF's". Great reviews.

 

I heard Terry Hiatt playing through a set yesterday at a blues festival...and whoa baby, they sounded amazing in his hands.

[Blunote]

This series, Doug and Pat show, posted in other threads. Clip below starting at ~25:10 run a Heritage 150 with a variety of pickups (and a pot change) in sequence. Same amp, guitar, recording setup. Kinda demonstrates (to me) that there are a lot of great sounding pickups out there (variations on which frequencies are accentuated). Like others here, I'm a Throbak fan as well (they aren't in the clip, just sayin').

 

Excellent! For me, the winner was the Heritage with SD 'Antiquities' installed. Would really like to hear a comparison that includes the Throbacks.

[slider313]

http://youtu.be/AZQEj6FJJpA

[yoslate]

I heard Terry Hiatt playing through a set yesterday at a blues festival...and whoa baby, they sounded amazing in his hands.

 

Terry's a monster!

[goSteelers]

One of the better pickup comparison tests was done a few months ago by Guitar Player magazine. Can't recall who came out on top, but I recall Lollar Imperials, Fralin Pure PAF and Throbak did exceptionally well to their ears.

That is a very good article. Unfortunately, Seymour Duncan chose not to participate.

 

For what it's worth, I once had a discussion with Graham at Wolfe guitars -- someone that has played zillions of Heritages with tons of different pickups (I imagine) -- and his recommendation was to go with an SD 59 in the neck and an SD Seth Lover in the bridge. This was based on trying to achieve a balanced tone, given the characteristics of those pickups and how they would perform in those positions. To be fair, I will note that higher end, smaller manufacturer pickups were just not part of the discussion, so I don't think this was a recommendation of SDs over those pickups.

 

And once when I was at Wolfe's, I was able to try out three 535s -- one with 59's one with Seth Lovers, and one with HRWs. To my ears, the Seth Lovers were the best. The 59s were similar, but I thought the Seth Lovers were a little more "authentically vintage" sounding. And when I cranked them ( a lot louder than I ever care to play), I got no squeal at all (the common complaint with unpotted pickups). The HRWs were a different animal altogether -- very hot -- and I didn't like them for that reason. I have since, however, obtained a Heritage with them, and I like them just fine.

 

Having said all of that, the next time I replace pickups, I will probably go with Thobaks or Doyles or one of the other pickups that have received high praises here . . .

[koula901]

I like the '59s that are in my 150 because they're articulate - a little bit brighter than the Seths. I only have experience with 59's and Seths.

[kidsmoke]

I dunno. They just sound old,in a good way. OPEN, like they are on their last leg.

Oddly enough, this description makes a TON of sense to me!

 

In this new context, I've been shoved up front...in a blues/rock band (The Faces, Robben Ford, John Hiatt, Albert Collins, Butterfield, Frankie Miller....), and I have to punch it out.

Holy crap, Rob. That has got to be just killer. Truly hittin' my sweet spots with that repertoire. Worth a trip to North Carolina just get a chance to tap a toe in that room! Enjoy.

[gpuma]

http://youtu.be/AZQEj6FJJpA

this

[goSteelers]

That is a very good article. Unfortunately, Seymour Duncan chose not to participate.

 

For what it's worth, I once had a discussion with Graham at Wolfe guitars -- someone that has played zillions of Heritages with tons of different pickups (I imagine) -- and his recommendation was to go with an SD 59 in the neck and an SD Seth Lover in the bridge. This was based on trying to achieve a balanced tone, given the characteristics of those pickups and how they would perform in those positions. To be fair, I will note that higher end, smaller manufacturer pickups were just not part of the discussion, so I don't think this was a recommendation of SDs over those pickups.

 

And once when I was at Wolfe's, I was able to try out three 535s -- one with 59's one with Seth Lovers, and one with HRWs. To my ears, the Seth Lovers were the best. The 59s were similar, but I thought the Seth Lovers were a little more "authentically vintage" sounding. And when I cranked them ( a lot louder than I ever care to play), I got no squeal at all (the common complaint with unpotted pickups). The HRWs were a different animal altogether -- very hot -- and I didn't like them for that reason. I have since, however, obtained a Heritage with them, and I like them just fine.

 

Having said all of that, the next time I replace pickups, I will probably go with Thobaks or Doyles or one of the other pickups that have received high praises here . . .

 

Here's a video of the pickups in the GP article:

 

http://www.mojotone.com/Holiday-Sales/Rocktober-2014/59-clone-PAF-humbucker#.VCshjvldW2E

 

Not the best playing to really get an idea of how each one sounds, but it might help. It's hard for me to hear a difference with most of them with the little speakers on my laptop, so you may want to listen to this video on a better system.

[slider313]

For what it's worth, I once had a discussion with Graham at Wolfe guitars -- someone that has played zillions of Heritages with tons of different pickups (I imagine) -- and his recommendation was to go with an SD 59 in the neck and an SD Seth Lover in the bridge.

 

 

That would be the opposite of what I would expect. I would put the Seth Lover in the neck and the '59 in the bridge.

[LK155]

....My favorite "tone" is the 157 with the Seths.

....The obvious thing would seem to be to put Seths in the Millennium, but I've already got a guitar with that tone. I know that there'd be some difference between the Millie and the 157 because of construction, but I'm thinking it would be insignificant.

 

 

Rod,

I know I'm late to this party, but here's my experience with Seths....

My first Heritage was (is) a Mille H155 with Seths. Wonderful sound.

My next Heritage was (is) an H535 with Seths. With exactly the same strings, bridge, and tailpiece as the H155, the H535 sounds even wonderfuller. Yes, that's a word. A very pronounced difference in tone, with the H535 being fuller, rounder, and richer sounding than the H155.

 

My point is this: making the assumption that the difference between your Mille with Seths and your H157 with Seths would be insignificant, in my mind, is not necessarily correct.

You'll never know until you try it.

 

On the other hand, you've had two of the most demanding, exacting, careful, and articulate members on this board (Kuz and Yoslate) tell you Throbaks are what you need. I would find it difficult to ignore that advice.

[Kuz]

That would be the opposite of what I would expect. I would put the Seth Lover in the neck and the '59 in the bridge.

 

+1 Exactly

[slider313]

The "humbucking" pickup was made in response to pro players getting too much noise from the P90's. What Seth Lover did was take the P90, with its 10K turns, and wind 5K on one bobbin and 5K reverse wound on the other. This bucked the hum. The idea was to also retain the sound of the P90 as much as possible. For these ears a good sounding PAF should be clear and a bit bright, sound "woody", have nice harmonic overtones and have good natural sustain even at lower volume levels.

[PunkKitty]

So far, my favorite pickup is the Fralin P-92.

 

I recently bought a set of Sheptone Tributes for my 150. The original degaussed alnico 5 magnets sounded too bright for me. So I experimented a bit and found that I liked alnico 4 magnets best followed closely by unoriented alnico 5. I'm debating if I would get better sound using a set of Throbak A4 magnets in them instead of the cheap A4 I bought from Addiction-FX.

 

Keep in mind that A4 is the magnet that was most commonly used in the old PAF's so that is likely the tone we expect from a PAF.

[slider313]

So far, my favorite pickup is the Fralin P-92.

 

I recently bought a set of Sheptone Tributes for my 150. The original degaussed alnico 5 magnets sounded too bright for me. So I experimented a bit and found that I liked alnico 4 magnets best followed closely by unoriented alnico 5. I'm debating if I would get better sound using a set of Throbak A4 magnets in them instead of the cheap A4 I bought from Addiction-FX.

 

Keep in mind that A4 is the magnet that was most commonly used in the old PAF's so that is likely the tone we expect from a PAF.

 

As a matter of fact, when I was at Briggs' comparing three different sets of humbuckers, I found the A2's in my Zhangbuckers have much less defined (mushy) bass. I ordered a set of A4's from ThroBak the next day. They made a big difference in the Ian A pickups, in my H140, which had standard MojoTone A4's in them previously. Many "boutique" winders get their parts from MojoTone.