jrfreed Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 So I'm looking for a new tube amp and loving the tone from my bassman reissue...just don't like lugging that monster for jazz gigs so thinking a Deluxe would be a good choice. But which one? Lucky for me a local shop had a 65 Blackface RI sitting right next to a 68 Silverface Reissue for me to A/B. Guitar used was a superb '59 RI 335 '65 Blackface The normal channel lacked any sort of complexity...just sounded dry and flat regardless of settings. Seemed to break up a little quicker than the Vibrato channel and the lack of reverb was apparent. My Bassman lacks reverb and honestly I don't miss it one bit with the huge robust sound, but in the DR it sounded weak and brittle. The Vibrato channel was another beast! Wonderful full tones and sensitivity but had to roll the treble off to about 1-2 or...set the reverb at 2 and the bass at ~6. Very touch sensitive and the break up point was easily controlled at 5 on the volume. Place it there and roll off the guitar volume to get nice full sounding jazz chords and pull up to full blast and have a touch of hair on the single note lines. Edge up to 6-7 on the amp volume (luckily the shop is large and almost empty at the time) and the amp just roared with killer overdrive tones. Overall thought this was a great amp for a just about any style and won't break my back hauling for jazz practice '68 Silverface I really liked this amp but its a different animal. The new custom channel was strong...bassman tone stack and could instantly get a great sound and with reverb and vibrato on that channel also it would probably be the input used if purchased. The Vintage inputs let me down a bit. I was really hoping for that huge complex sound from the blackface but it came off a bit darker and muddier. I put the settings the same and just jumped back and forth with the same chords and licks but to get the sound similar, I had to roll up the treble a bit on the 68 and it just didn't have the same ....hmmm....spank? Bloom? I'm not sure it just sounded a touch more tame than the blackface. It broke up a little bit earlier (around 4.5) and the overdrive sounded great but would say a smoother overdrive. Not the roar I got from the the blackface. OVERALL I really wanted to like the '68 Silverface. The bassman tone stack on the custom channel and the inclusion of reverb & vibrato makes that channel nice...but man I wish the vintage channel sounded CLOSE to the '65 Blackface. Being a jazzer I'm more concerned with the clean tone and relative headroom and both of these amps are plenty loud and enough clean headroom for any jazz gig. The smoother tone makes me lean towards the silver face, but can't lie...the Blackface killed it, even with the (IMO) dead normal channel. No purchase yet as I want to find a George Benson Hot Rod to play and perhaps A/B between the DRRI but thought I'd pass along my experience with these two amps.
JeffB Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I had the opportunity to play them side by side at a jam and I feel exactly the same way. Im no jazz player though. The lack of head room is the most startling thing to me with the 68. It crunches nicely but I found after a while at a decent volume it was all a bit too compressed and kinda flat. To be fair I do like what seems to be an unusual amount of clean head room, neither these amps have it but the 68 had so little I was taken a little by surprise eve though I had spent time with them many times before but not in ban type situation.
FredZepp Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Great review. While I use more of an overdrive tone, you explained the variables quite well. Good luck with your search.
LRS Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I must agree with the TS; there's something missing with the '68 Silverface Custom. It was for me reason to get the '65 RI. Plug your Tele straight into the Reverb channel and you're in Fender walhalla. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
fxdx99 Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Nice review - thanks for that write up. I've not played or heard live the 68 version. Bandmate plays thru the 65 version and a couple weeks ago I set his amp while he was playing (his tele). Surprisingly close to the settings you state.
myoldfriend Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Interesting thread... Just wanted to share my experience as I recently went from 3 combo amps to 1 - a '65 DRRI. It sounded decent out of the box, but after one too many late nights fishing around the Internet for mods that can be made, I set out on improving its t-o-n-e (hey, another four-letter-word). Swapping out tubes seemed like an interesting place to start for me. After a moderate amount of researching NOS tubes along with even more trial&error and mixing/matching, I've settled on the following, and am enjoying a MUCH warmer sound than the stock amp. The reverb is now usable past 3 as well. Still feel there is room for improvement with the tremolo (V5). May try one or two NOS swaps in V6 as well. Have read everything from V6 "has no effect whatsoever on tone" to "it's the most important tube in the amp." Current tube complement: V1: CH1 - 1st gain stage emptyV2: CH2 - 1st gain stage GE JG5751 blackplateV3: Reverb driver GE 12AU7 (triple mica)V4: CH2 - 2nd gain stage, Reverb recovery Wollensak '65 (Mullard) 12AT7V5: Tremolo JJ ECC83-SV6: Phase inverter Marshall ECC83 Another noticeable move towards amp-vana was gained by swapping out the stock power tubes for a pair of NOS RCA 6V6's. This move eliminated all of the remaining "brittleness"; and, when I turn the amp on there is no nerve-jarring "CRACKK" shooting out of the speaker. The speaker. After reading about ten inch speakers and the difference they make compared with a single twelve, another change I made over the past 18 months was to acquire a solid pine closed-back 2x10 extension cabinet off eBay. After some more research, I loaded it with two Weber speakers - a Blue Pup (ceramic) and a Silver 10 (alnico). Another sizeable improvement over stock: really sweet chime. Not quite like a VOX, as it's still true to that Fender clean... The next order of business and common interest with this thread is the issue of weight. Though not for everyone, I'm turning the combo into just a head. After eBaying the stock cabinet and speaker, there were additional funds for some nice plywood, OEM Vanilla nubtex, and... Maybe a Mercury Magnetics output transformer? But, wait. Something is missing . . . Oh yeah, I remember. Spend more time actually using the amp instead of tinkering with it.
yoslate Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 myoldfriend.... Interesting! We're thinking along the same lines. I have a DRRI, and I had my amp guru, Dale Laslie, at MegaTone Amps, mod it to his spec, and my ears. I'm not really tech savvy, but here's what i can relate: He replaced a number of what he calls "the turd" caps, the brown factory caps, with F&T. We did put a Mercury "original spec" output transformer in. Tube complement is nothing in V1; a vintage something (no labeling, Dale pulled a bunch out of his vintage stash, and I auditioned them one at a time) in the pre, V2; JJ's in the rest; A Ruby in the rectifier; and TAD 6v6's. The speaker is an Eminence Tonker. Dale also installed a push/pull mid boost pot in the rear. The goal here was a blues/jazz-blues amp that I could use effectively in clubs, without pedals. I'm considering another "tube mining" expedition, for some vintage 6V's. The amp sounds fabulous! Nice breakup begins to happen around 3+. Brittleness is gone, and the mid-boost has a pretty dramatic effect which i can dial in and out, to taste. Amp really shines with single coils! And I, too, am thinking about turning it into a head, as the way it is, it's pretty heavy, for a Deluxe...but I really like that speaker in it.
yoslate Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Timed out.... I'll try to post a clip or two, later in the week. No promises.
DetroitBlues Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 I've played hand wired clones of the '65. The Silverface sounds interesting, but so far the Bassman has been my favorite Fender design so far.
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