Hfan Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I know I've said this before when this topic comes, but I really think it would be smart for Gibson to buy Heritage and keep it as a boutique line. I understand a lot of folks here wouldn't like that very much. It would be great if that could occur without Gibson mucking up the works which I doubt would be a possibility. Especially considering some of Gibson's recent decisions. At the least I can't imagine what they would charge, what with the recent price increases. With the age of the owners etc I've been expecting something like this while hoping against it. Hope things shake out for the best.
Genericmusic Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 last I heard....the # was somewhere around 1 million for the name ... I might have that much in my change jar on the dresser. I'll go count it.
bobmeyrick Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 In a past life, when I was running a bar, there was a joke about how if you wanted to make a million in that business you first had to start out with two million. Can't remember exactly how it went, but the idea was it was a losing proposition. Man, those were some fun years, though. That joke (or one very similar) was told by the late, great Ronnie Scott (founder of the famous London jazz club), who said that if you wanted to make a million running a jazz club, start with two million. Another one of his was to say the club was "just like home - filthy and full of strangers."
barrymclark Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Ah ok. So it isn't that Heritage is ACTIVELY seeking buyout... it is just available if someone offers up the right number. Would be interesting to see what happens to 'Marv' era Heritage values once Heritage changes hands. I hope I can dig up a 1996 before that happens so I don't end up spending double for it. haha.
TalismanRich Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Folks, all it is going to take is 6 little numbers. With MegaMillions at $200+ million, you would have enough to buy the business, the building, and the rest of the block as well. I can't think of a better way to spend my retirement account.... er ... lottery winnings.
PunkKitty Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Folks, all it is going to take is 6 little numbers. With MegaMillions at $200+ million, you would have enough to buy the business, the building, and the rest of the block as well. I can't think of a better way to spend my retirement account.... er ... lottery winnings. Honestly, if I could, I would.
gpuma Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 The real question is what is the value of the brand name without Jim and Marv behind?
yuominae Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 The real question is what is the value of the brand name without Jim and Marv behind?Good point!
HANGAR18 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 The real question is what is the value of the brand name without Jim and Marv behind? Good point! Better yet, what would the retirement of the founding four do to the used guitar values of Heritage guitars? People think $1800-$2000 is too expensive for the blemished H157 I'm offering for sale now? Ha! See what the price goes to 10 years from now when it becomes one of those original guitars which was built by Marv and the boys (and the girl )
Dick Seacup Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Better yet, what would the retirement of the founding four do to the used guitar values of Heritage guitars? People think $1800-$2000 is too expensive for the blemished H157 I'm offering for sale now? Ha! See what the price goes to 10 years from now when it becomes one of those original guitars which was built by Marv and the boys (and the girl ) Considering HG,Inc has been around since 1985, right now they're where Gibson was (time-wise, not quality-wise) in 1989 (relative to the high watermark of the '59 LP). Your time frame of ten years would put Heritage right at the point that vintage Gibson LPs started to really take off in the secondary market. Not that there is any guarantee that will (or should) happen with '80s H-150s and the like, but it could. Heritage also don't have the ignomy of a "Norlin era" to overcome, so it's possible (but not a given) that any change in leadership at HG, Inc could be the catalyst for increased value of everything built up to the point of said hypothetical change. The fly in the ointment is that they don't have broad market penetration like Gibbons did. On the other hand, when Josh Homme started playing that ratty old Ovation GP, the secondary market for those went through the roof. At one point you couldn't get one for less than high 2k-3k. And they weren't all that, although they are decent guitars. I wonder how much more exposure someone like Frankie Ballard will need to have a similar effect on used Heritages.
FredZepp Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 The real question is what is the value of the brand name without Jim and Marv behind? Yeah... they are icons of the history of Parsons Street. But that's where "The Heritage" of Kalamazoo comes in. Just as Marv, Jim, and JP were mentored by the craftsmen at the Parsons Street Plant in the 50's , the newer Heritage employees were mentored by in turn by them. The Heritage remains unbroken. Gibson built a system of self-audit, where each employee was an inspector. It had traditional inspectors, as well, but it was the individual workers who were responsible for quality workmanship. If an employee underachieved, he or she would hear about it, not only from supervision, but from co-workers. Employee self-worth was based on recognizable quality work. Sure, there was plenty of good-natured kidding on the factory floor, but behind it was an understated sentiment that you were lesser if you can't do the job right. In the McCarty/"Golden" Era, there was a lot of pride on the factory floor. Opportunity abounded. Workers who wanted more responsibility were often given it, and they could advance to supervisory roles if they wanted. Supervision did not necessarily mean a larger paycheck, but it signified a level of accomplishment and skill. To some, that was important, while others preferred their daily routine in which they could stay effective. A great system and great people made great woodworkers, and they were provided the best tools, the best raw materials, and a great work environment. An oft-heard sentiment in the '50's was the Gibson was a friendly place to work, where everybody knew everybody else. Even in a so-called union shop, people crossed classifications if needed. If a certain activity or line was caught up, it wasn't unusual for workers to go to the next department to offer help. "I'd even sweep the floor if that's what needed done," said one former employee. Under McCarty, Gibson had a true work ethic. People helped each other, they cared about the next guy, they cared about the product, and they cared about the company. That's what McCarty wanted. His favorite quote was always, "People make the company." edited from " Gibson Guitars: Ted McCarty's Golden Era"
Kazootattoo Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 Thanks for all the observations. I must say, I would hate to see "Henry" acquire The Heritage. I don't think he would be the right person to preserve and nurture Parsons St.. I would be curious to see what the Breedlove-Webber ownership could do if they took over. Or for that matter, Chris Martin. lol I just hope and pray that Heritage keeps working at Parsons St in perpetuity.
Blunote Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Any corporation with stockholders will be bound to run the Heritage Guitar Co.in a different way than than we're used to. There's no room for sentimentality, four day weeks, and labor intensive builds when you're not dealing with a cadre of owners who are content with their lives, and comfortable doing the same things the same way they've always done them. A corporation would make investments and assume liabilities in order to increase productivity and maximize profits to shareholders and income to managers. Gone would be the old paddle wheel, and hands on build stations we see during factory tours -not to mention smiles on the faces of the crew. For me, much of the mystique of Heritage would also be lost.
JohnCovach Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Thanks for all the observations. I must say, I would hate to see "Henry" acquire The Heritage. I don't think he would be the right person to preserve and nurture Parsons St.. I would be curious to see what the Breedlove-Webber ownership could do if they took over. Or for that matter, Chris Martin. lol I just hope and pray that Heritage keeps working at Parsons St in perpetuity. If Chris Martin took it over, we'd all be getting emails every day. I get more email from Martin than I get from my students.
smokedtires Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Having never been there, I don't know how many employees they have. In a former life I worked for a company where the owners were nearing retirement and sold the company to the employees through an ESOP plan (Employee Stock Ownership Plan). The owners didn't have to find a buyer, there were tax breaks for the company, ect. They took a loan from the bank after having the business appraised and as the loan was paid back the employees received a portion in stocks. With the money the owners received they would (loan) the company $ for equipment and make the interest back to themselves. Might be an option for The Heritage Company to continue with it's products while providing the much needed jobs to the talented employees.
HANGAR18 Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Having never been there, I don't know how many employees they have. In a former life I worked for a company where the owners were nearing retirement and sold the company to the employees through an ESOP plan (Employee Stock Ownership Plan). The owners didn't have to find a buyer, there were tax breaks for the company, ect. They took a loan from the bank after having the business appraised and as the loan was paid back the employees received a portion in stocks. With the money the owners received they would (loan) the company $ for equipment and make the interest back to themselves. Might be an option for The Heritage Company to continue with it's products while providing the much needed jobs to the talented employees. Someone once suggested that members of the HOC as well the employees all participate in a plan just like that.
yuominae Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Lol! It would be cool to own a slice of Heritage... Maybe this could be crowdfunded or whatever you call that thing where you get members of the public to provide funds for a project.
Johnsonfromwisconsin Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Am happy to discuss how we could actually pull it off !
JeffB Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I wonder what the margin is on a guitar. I wasnt thinking so much as Heritage Guitars as an investment being such a bad thing but the whole group of owners thing being suggested here. Ive seen some of the Heritage forum members in action when no coin was involved. Misplaced and over inflated egos as possible business partners, no thanks. Sorry. The whole episode tainted my out look. Personally I would like to do business with Heritage Guitars over here, but it would be a hard road after the last distributor destroyed the brand here. If some of the members and ex members here were involved it would be the final nail in the coffin for me. Again, Im very sorry for speaking openly and you can delete this post and ban me, but if any of those smarmy chumps got any controlling interest in Heritage Guitars it would be a speedy and ungracious end to a wonderful brand.
Kuz Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 SO that's the Heritage Business Plan you guys are proposing .....
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.