darkphader Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Hello, New to club and new to Heritage. Recently picked up a used 1997 H-150 equipped with the Schaller roller bridge system and wish to replace it with the Faber Tone-Lock Master Kit. The Faber Master Kit comes in both imperial and metric variations. Most of the information I find seems to indicate that the metric kit is the proper choice, however, someone at Heritage (during a phone call this morning) said the imperial (or standard) version was the proper one, although granted he didn't really sound convinced. In case this helps, measuring the tailpiece studs with a micrometer gives me a thread width of 0.308"/7.83mm and a root width of 0.290"/7.35mm. So which is it? Metric? Or imperial (standard, inch SAE, etc.)? Also one of the tailpiece bushings seems to be set too high in the body (see photo) and I suspect that the Faber tailpiece spacers will not seat properly. Can I just knock the bushing in further with no repercussions? Thanks all, Chris
kidsmoke Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Welcome to the fray, Phader. I can tell you my experience, take if for what it's worth. I did the tone lock master kit conversion on my 2002 H-535. The threaded bushings on my guitar were INCH, NOT METRIC. I had also heeded the suggestions of others and ordered Metric, and had to get the bolts switched. IMPORTANT NOTE: I had a traditional zinc tailpiece in place, not the Schaller that you are dealing with. One way to be certain....go to the basement or the hardware store, INCH hardware is a 5/16-24 thread. Get an appropriate bolt. It may cost you .30 cents. If it runs straight in, you've got inch, If it doesn't, you've got metric. good luck, and let's see the rest of that guitar!
kidsmoke Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 oh, and another thing...my bushings were recessed deeply into the hole like the one on the bass side of your guitar. I did NOT want that. this allowed the tailpiece to flex under tension. I raised the bushings so they were flush with the top. YMMV. On the the treble side bushing, i would just press it in, shouldn't harm anything. you can use that same bolt you buy, run it in a 1/4 inch and tap it lightly with a hammer, or simply press to recess it.
PaGator Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I made a similar change with a Faber bridge replacing a Schaller Roller Bridge and bought the Inch (imperial) kit and it worked fine. That said, you need to add the iNsert Nashville bridge posts. Unlike the Schaller posts you have in your pic the iNsert posts have threads above and below the turning wheel so that you can lock the bridge down. On the Tailpiece bushings in speaking to Larry at Faber, he said the bushing should be level with the top of the guitar for maximum sustain. Hope that helps.
Hfan Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 typed "HOC, Heritage bridge metric or standard" into google..got several old threads here..here's one..sounds like the consensus is metric bridge and standard tail..can't hurt to confirm first though like kidsmoke said. Isn't that combo what Gibson does too? http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/topic/24288-stoptailbridge-replacement-heritage-h150/
darkphader Posted January 13, 2015 Author Posted January 13, 2015 From what I gather from Faber is that only difference between the two Tone-Lock Master Kits - metric and imperial is the tailpiece studs, every other component is identical. It appears I could order the metric kit and get new metric tailpiece bushings as well. They are just a hair larger than the imperial ones and should just knock right in, maybe even be a better fit as the one on the bass side may get a bit loose if I attempt to raise it. @kidsmoke, here's the rest of the guitar (it's a bit rough but looks good from a distance):
kidsmoke Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (it's a bit rough but looks good from a distance) I resemble that remark!
yuominae Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 From what I gather from Faber is that only difference between the two Tone-Lock Master Kits - metric and imperial is the tailpiece studs, every other component is identical. It appears I could order the metric kit and get new metric tailpiece bushings as well. They are just a hair larger than the imperial ones and should just knock right in, maybe even be a better fit as the one on the bass side may get a bit loose if I attempt to raise it. @kidsmoke, here's the rest of the guitar (it's a bit rough but looks good from a distance): That's a very nice whale you got there
darkphader Posted January 14, 2015 Author Posted January 14, 2015 Took a tailpiece stud to the "hardware" store (a local Lowe's, not a real hardware store) and it screwed right into a 5/16-24 nut, did not screw into an 8mm nut. So even with the Schaller system the tailpiece threading is imperial. The Tone-Lock bridge is metric, but all of the necessary Nashville to Tone-Lock conversion kits (have the BSWKIT ordered as well) take care of this automatically. Going whole hog here, with a fresh set of Lollar Imperials as well. I guess it's in for a penny, in for a pound :-)
kidsmoke Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Rock n roll!! That's awesome, and exactly the approach I took to my project back in the day. Tuners, pickups, tailpiece, bridge, and even the harness, and knobs that go to 11.. Only left the nut and the frets from when I got it. My number 1 , forever and a day. Hope you feel the same when you're done
darkphader Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 ...and knobs that go to 11.. Great... Spinal Pap style. Which begs the question... does the H150 use long shaft pots?
yuominae Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Great... Spinal Pap style. Which begs the question... does the H150 use long shaft pots? Short shaft pots only.
darkphader Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 Short shaft pots only. Thanks! Apparently "real" Les Paul's use a long shaft pot (at least that's what Stewmac claims). The Heritage H150 is indeed a slightly different fish.
PunkKitty Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 If you really want to, you can use long shaft pots in a Heritage. I wouldn't bother though.
darkphader Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 If you really want to, you can use long shaft pots in a Heritage. I wouldn't bother though. Right, could use some spacers or a nut underneath, or just have some hovering knobs. Since the normal shafts fit I'm going with those - they are also less expensive.
yuominae Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 As far as I know the historic les Pauls use short shaft knobs and they're supposed to be Gibson's version of a "real" les paul
darkphader Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 As far as I know the historic les Pauls use short shaft knobs and they're supposed to be Gibson's version of a "real" les paul
skydog Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Another option (and one I'd pursue) would be to dowel the bridge stud holes and convert from the current "Nashville" style to an ABR-1 style bridge. I do all mine like that, using 2-1/4" stainless steel posts and double thumbwheels. It makes more of a difference than any other mod I've done.
darkphader Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 Another option (and one I'd pursue) would be to dowel the bridge stud holes and convert from the current "Nashville" style to an ABR-1 style bridge. I do all mine like that, using 2-1/4" stainless steel posts and double thumbwheels. It makes more of a difference than any other mod I've done. I'll keep in mind for a future instrument. Faber parts are already here, just waiting on the Lollar's.
darkphader Posted January 24, 2015 Author Posted January 24, 2015 Nice. I guess that was the standard - with the black binding.
darkphader Posted January 26, 2015 Author Posted January 26, 2015 why change the rollers? Just going for a more standard look. It's less of a functional reason than it is a cosmetic one.
ironmike Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 oh, i have the german roller set up and it's bitching!, i play 12 guage and bend the shit out of my strings, no problems at all..but, looks is looks!
darkphader Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Conversion complete (Faber Tone-Lock and BSWKIT installed):
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