Questions about speaker cabs

[LK155]

After a two+ year hiatus, I'm finally back to doing some recording.

I'm fortunate enough to have two completely different amps, the BF Vibrolux Reverb, with its two original 10" CTS speakers, and the Trinity Tramp I built from a kit.

The Tramp is an extremely clean sounding two-tube amp (6L6 and 12AX7), and I'm using it with a Mesa mini-recto slant 1x12 cab I got from a fellow HOC member. Or maybe it's called a mini-slant recto, dunno.

 

My issue is this: at the fairly low volumes I'm using for recording, the Mesa just doesn't have enough bottom end. It has a Celestion Vintage30 rated for 70 watts. On a good day, the Tramp puts out 12 watts.

With the Tramp cranked to 11, or driven by the Vibrolux, the Mesa simply doesn't project much bass. Not as much bottom end as the Fender has with its two 10's. But I want the Tramp's crispness and clarity AND some bottom end. There's a lot of depth missing when the lower frequencies just aren't there.

 

So I'm looking for a replacement cab to use with the Tramp.

 

First thought was towards a 2x12. At PSP6 I borrowed TalismanRich's Carvin 2x12 for the Tramp, and it was a pretty nice sounding combination.

 

Traynor, a popular name in these parts, have a couple of 2x12's, one with a pair of Vintage 30's (model YBX212), the other with a pair of G12M Greenbacks (DHX212). I have tried the first one. Its low end was definitely better than the Mesa but didn't have me reaching for my credit card. Haven't yet found a DHX212 near by to audition. The cab with the Greenbacks has them slightly angled towards each other, and has removable panels in the back to run either (semi-) open or closed. These two cabs are about the same price. The difference in power handling capacity would be meaningless for my needs.

 

Moving up a couple of price brackets, Mesa makes a variety of 2x12 models, but nobody within an hour's drive has any I can try out. I may have to make a trip down to the big smoke (Toronto).

 

Bottom line: I want a reasonably compact cabinet (no 4x12's) that will present a full sound spectrum at relatively low volume. It will never be gigged.

What else should I be considering?

 

[JeffB]

I like the Marshall 2061cx. Good sounding cab. Maybe the bottom end is a bit tight.

But I like the fender piggy back style visual rather than the Marshall vertical 212 look.

I like Mesa cabs. My Mesa 112 3/4 cab replaced a few 212 cabs that I used.

[Steiner]

Generally, closed back cabs have better bass projection. Have you tried the white cab you made? I would think the lower ports would help with the bass.

[LK155]

The Mesa 1x12 I have is closed back, and with not much internal volume, maybe 1 cubic foot maximum. I think because of the low volume I use, it just isn't moving enough air to generate any bass.

 

 

 

The white thing I made is an amp stand, sized for the Vibrolux. It closes off the back portion of the open-back Fender cab and routes the air coming off the back of the speaker cones through that folded horn and out the front. Works well for what it is, but it's not a speaker cabinet.

 

 

 

 

I know there are Thiele-ported versions of Mesa 1x12's out there, but I've never seen one. Could be just another urban myth.

 

 

[Gitfiddler]

I use an open back Mesa Thiele loaded with one of their Black Shadow (Celestion) 90 watt speakers that cranks out the low end, while retaining the high end chime. Have you considered a speaker swap for your tilt back Mesa?

[LK155]

If you're running a Thiele cab open at the back, doesn't that eliminate the benefit of the Thiele porting?

 

I'll consider anything within reason. A speaker swap would definitely be the easiest fix, but I wouldn't know what speaker would do a better job in the Mesa cab. Wouldn't want to buy a replacement, try it out, find it to be no improvement, and be stuck with it.

[TalismanRich]

So where should I ship the Carvin cab?

 

Have you tried using the Tramp to run the Vibrolux speakers?

 

One of the reasons I was looking at 2x12s was that I thought the DSL401 was anemic on the bottom end. It just didn't have the type of fullness that I wanted. When I walked into MusicGoRound, I was there to check out a 555 for another HOCer. I saw the Carvin, it has the older BR12 speakers, which are sourced from Eminence, not the newer Chinese versions. I could take the thing home and try it out. It did what I was looking for and really was a bargain price.

 

I find that open back cabs give more bloom to the sound that seems to work at lower volumes. Closed backs are usually tighter and more controlled, which is good for high volumes.

 

The Patriot with the G12Hs have the fullness that I like. They might give you more bottom end compared to the Vintage 30. I think they are much more "midrangey" than the G12H Heritages series.

[LK155]

Progress.............

Went to audition a VOX V212NT-G2 today, and it came home with me. It's 5 months old, alleged to be essentially unused, looks mint, and cost me just about half what a new one would.

Has a pair of Celestion G12H 70th Anniversary 12's in what's a pretty compact cab.

Back is 2/3 closed. If I buy one (or make it), a panel will fit in the gap and make it totally closed.

 

Compared to the Mesa 1x12, the VOX has a noticable difference in overall timbre and heft, not just in the bass response.

The high end isn't quite as bright, but than can be accommodated with a tweak to the treble knob.

So far, so good. We'll see how the mic likes it in the next few days.

 

A music store about an hour away from me has ordered a Mesa 2x12 vertical cab (Vintage 30's), and will let me know when it's in. There's no commitment to buy, but if it's significantly better than the VOX, I'm sure I can trade in the VOX and not lose any money on it.

 

Not quite sure how to embed a web photo here, so I'll just put a link to an ad so you can see some pix.....

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sweetwater.com%2Fstore%2Fdetail%2FV212NTG2&ei=e0ICVbeVK4-OyATNzYDgBw&bvm=bv.88198703,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHwAi6j1o3GLPVlPN_sdsQNe5QNAA&ust=1426297854957125

 

(Yes, Rich, I have tried the Tramp into the Vibrolux speakers a few times, but that's not a complete success. Something happens to the mids that just doesn't sound right to my ears.)

[gpuma]

after a long and exhausting search I finally bought the cab that I really wanted for the longest time. It's in the mail now from Petaluma, CA to Chicago, IL.

 

Even though the origin of the cab will make you guess rightly that it is a Boogie cab, I got it from a private seller not from the Mesa plant.

In fact it is a vintage 212 cab that mesa used to do in the 80' and it has the best of both worlds:

half open back with a black shadow C90 and half closed back ported with a vintage EVM12L

 

looks like this:

 

 

 

People on TGP and on the Boogie forum go nuts for them.

Naturally the problem with these cabs is that they are heavy as hell.

 

If you are interested though there is another one for sale on Indianapolis' CL

[LK155]

Gio, that's a real teacup rattler. You'll enjoy it. As will you neighbours, I suspect.

 

Now that it's out of the seller's dark garage, I've been checking further into my VOX acquisition. Turns out it's just a plain V212NT version and not the NT-G2.

It does have the G12H Anniversary speakers, though, so I don't really know what difference the -G2 would make.

It's also been rewired to run at 4 ohms instead of 16, so that kind of refutes the seller's story of it being "new and unused". It's quite an international piece...cabinet made in Vietnam, speakers are Chinese Celestions. VOX, of course, was originally an English company but is now owned by a Japanese corporation (Korg).

 

Drove the VOX with the Vibrolux for a while today, and jeez louise does it ever sound sweet. So much better than the Fender 10's that they may never get used again. I'm going to need some sort of switchbox to let me drive the VOX with either the Tramp or the Vibrolux.

 

Yeah, I know....boys and their toys.

[Steiner]

Radial makes a "cab bone" that essentially allows you to plug 1 amp into two cabs and footswitch between them.

 

It's not a true test to set the amp and switch back and forth. The amp will obviously sound different with different cabs. If you set the amp biased to one cab or the other, you'll taint the outcome.

 

It does provide minimal changes to the amp to see which you and the recording prefer.

[LK155]

Steiner, I need the reverse of that....two amps, one cab.

[Steiner]

Steiner, I need the reverse of that....two amps, one cab.

 

Then you need the "Headbone VT". Two heads, 1 cab.

[Hfan]

The Mesa 1x12 I have is closed back, and with not much internal volume, maybe 1 cubic foot maximum. I think because of the low volume I use, it just isn't moving enough air to generate any bass.

 

 

 

The white thing I made is an amp stand, sized for the Vibrolux. It closes off the back portion of the open-back Fender cab and routes the air coming off the back of the speaker cones through that folded horn and out the front. Works well for what it is, but it's not a speaker cabinet.

 

 

 

 

I know there are Thiele-ported versions of Mesa 1x12's out there, but I've never seen one. Could be just another urban myth.

 

 

Cool invention! I hear Carvins are reasonably priced..I'd just haunt my CL for something used then add my own speakers. I do have a CL problem though.

[DOGBOY]

Steiner, I need the reverse of that....two amps, one cab.

Notice my local CL has one pretty cheap as they go $260 new I think, just an FYI.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/msg/4924355341.html