Vanschoyck Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Looking for all opinions here. Some I have surmised from other threads but I'd like to go at this head on. So . . . Can Heritage make an H150 that rivals, for real, one of these LP reissues, or even the real deal? If not, why do you suppose? (Given same guys, same place, same tools etc.) And, if not, would it make more sense to just save up, bite the bullet and get a reissue if one wanted "the best"? Or maybe there's a builder out there doing it even better? I owned a '60 burst many years ago. Gigged it for several years so I know what it's like to use one, although I don't remember the experience in fine detail by any means. (If you remember the 70's you weren't there, etc.)
DetroitBlues Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I think they nail it when you ask for one... This particular model was spec'd for a 1959 Burst. Nearly every part about it is correct. Tuners and tenon were the only differences....
bobmeyrick Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 The Doug and Pat Show addressed this very issue a little while ago... Results of the test here...
SniffnGrowl Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 This H150 CM now belongs to a former HOC member here in the Detroit area and is the best "R9" I've seen. It's a gd masterpiece and will easily stand up next to the very best that Gibson has produced. The guitar is known amongst friends as the "Unicorn". - All aspects are 59 spec- - Brazillian fretboard - Throbak's - ABR-1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWdI-j7-wFE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOVWrzNvs0
HANGAR18 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Unlike Gibson, Heritage doesn't make their own pickups anymore and they use basic hardware acording to what the market has available from year to year. They often install Seymour Duncan pickups, which are really good, but it is no sin to replace pots, caps, pickups and hardware acording to your own preferences. Heritage also doesn't use hide glue like "back in the day". I don't think I would be able to tel the difference between hide glue and Tightbond III but some say it makes a difference. Neck carves can be whatever you like at Heritage if you order a guitar brand new and wait the required months for it to be built, unlike Gibson which doesn't offer made to order guitars unless you feel like spending close to $10000.00 on a Custom Shop offering. So with Heritage (imho) you can get a guitar ranging from "close enough" (to a real 1959 Les Paul) to "as good or better", depending on the way Heritage normally makes their guitars and the variables you have control of.
AP515 Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I've never played a R series LP so I can't compare my 150's to them, but given that the 150's are made by the same folks who made the 59's on the same equipment and with similar materials, I'd say our 150's are pretty close to the real deal. I know mine sound like the real deal.
Gitfiddler Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Looking for all opinions here. Some I have surmised from other threads but I'd like to go at this head on. So . . . Can Heritage make an H150 that rivals, for real, one of these LP reissues, or even the real deal? If not, why do you suppose? (Given same guys, same place, same tools etc.) And, if not, would it make more sense to just save up, bite the bullet and get a reissue if one wanted "the best"? Or maybe there's a builder out there doing it even better? I owned a '60 burst many years ago. Gigged it for several years so I know what it's like to use one, although I don't remember the experience in fine detail by any means. (If you remember the 70's you weren't there, etc.) The short answer is...Yes they can! All you need to do is custom order your 150 or 157 with specs closest to an early Burst, or your favorite G-brand Reissue models. These two gits (Heritage H-157 & Gibson Custom 68RI) are like sisters...Not twin sisters, but kindred spirits, born out of the same gene pool. Here's a 'head shot' of them hanging out together:
gpuma Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 The Doug and Pat Show addressed this very issue a little while ago... Results of the test here... While interesting and entertaining, I think these videos do not show absolutely anything that answer that question. The only variable they took out of the equation is the amp. Different pickups, different wiring. So what question are they really asking? Aside from that, the most fundamental problem with the videos is that the answers are to be treated as statistical variables. As such the only statistics that matter is how different is the distribution of answers from a completely random outcome? I understand that those two guys, while very competent in guitars are probably not the best people on the block for serious statistical analysis.
ironmike Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 a reissue is still "new wood" so, there is no comparison to a "1959" anyway..my 150 is as good as it gets , in 2065 i doubt anyone will want a re-issue if it,because nomatter what, the older wood is older wood and makes a unique feel and tone,stiffer neck , more resonant body, with age, it even becomes a bit lighter in weight.. so/i recon it's best to simply buy a good guitar in the first place,
bobmeyrick Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 While interesting and entertaining, I think these videos do not show absolutely anything that answer that question. The only variable they took out of the equation is the amp. Different pickups, different wiring. So what question are they really asking? Aside from that, the most fundamental problem with the videos is that the answers are to be treated as statistical variables. As such the only statistics that matter is how different is the distribution of answers from a completely random outcome? I understand that those two guys, while very competent in guitars are probably not the best people on the block for serious statistical analysis. The original question was "Can Heritage make an H150 that rivals, for real, one of these LP reissues, or even the real deal?". The 1994 H150 they used compares well with the other guitars, and while there are differences they are not great - look at the number of people who thought the Tokai was the 1960 'burst and vice versa.
Yooper Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 While the instrument is key to the sound, maybe the player makes more of a difference than the wood and wires.
davesultra Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 My current Gibson R4 is just as good as any of the Heritage guitars that I've had. And vice versa. As with any brand you have great ones, good ones, and dawgs.
indravayu Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 This H150 CM now belongs to a former HOC member here in the Detroit area and is the best "R9" I've seen. It's a gd masterpiece and will easily stand up next to the very best that Gibson has produced. The guitar is known amongst friends as the "Unicorn". - All aspects are 59 spec- - Brazillian fretboard - Throbak's - ABR-1 Did Heritage build it with the Brazilian board and ABR-1, or were these later additions (a la the Historic Makever service)?
Jim W Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Did Heritage build it with the Brazilian board and ABR-1, or were these later additions (a la the Historic Makever service)? I'd be curious as well, because when I asked about using Brazzy at one of the PSP tours, they said no.
davesultra Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I'd be curious as well, because when I asked about using Brazzy at one of the PSP tours, they said no. Wonder if they'd use Brazilian if you provided the blank. My understanding is that it's difficult to obtain.
SniffnGrowl Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Did Heritage build it with the Brazilian board and ABR-1, or were these later additions (a la the Historic Makever service)? This was originally an employee build, most materials on that guitar were supplied by him.
SniffnGrowl Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Wonder if they'd use Brazilian if you provided the blank. My understanding is that it's difficult to obtain. They will probably decline. Besides hardware and pickups, I dont think they're crazy about using materials supplied by the customer.
Kuz Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I was told if you supply any of the wood for the build then Heritage will not issue a warranty for the guitar because they don't know the quality of the wood you brought. They will not out-source exotic wood by request.
Blunote Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I do seem to recall a former HOC member who provided Heritage with a Brazilian fret-board for a 357 build. That was just last year. So, it may depend on who you know.
TalismanRich Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 a reissue is still "new wood" so, there is no comparison to a "1959" anyway..my 150 is as good as it gets , in 2065 i doubt anyone will want a re-issue if it,because nomatter what, the older wood is older wood and makes a unique feel and tone,stiffer neck , more resonant body, with age, it even becomes a bit lighter in weight.. so/i recon it's best to simply buy a good guitar in the first place, I don't know if just being "old" is the trick. Everyone is gaga over the Clapton sound of his '60 LP, but when he cut Beano, that guitar would have been made a mere 6 years earlier, so the same as you having a 2009 build today. My Guild is already 40 years old, and my H140 is 28 years old. I don't think my Guild sounds much different today than it did in 74. I've only had the 140 for about 9 years, so I can't tell you what it sound like when it was made. More likely its more the case of a good instrument in combination with a good amp, and a hell of a good guitar player. Stir the pot and you get something better than the sum of the parts.
davesultra Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I don't know if just being "old" is the trick. Everyone is gaga over the Clapton sound of his '60 LP, but when he cut Beano, that guitar would have been made a mere 6 years earlier, so the same as you having a 2009 build today. My Guild is already 40 years old, and my H140 is 28 years old. I don't think my Guild sounds much different today than it did in 74. I've only had the 140 for about 9 years, so I can't tell you what it sound like when it was made. More likely its more the case of a good instrument in combination with a good amp, and a hell of a good guitar player. Stir the pot and you get something better than the sum of the parts. Very good points!
yoslate Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 More likely its more the case of a good instrument in combination with a good amp, and a hell of a good guitar player. Stir the pot and you get something better than the sum of the parts. This is, I think, pretty much it...just about every time.
rockabilly69 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 If Heritage would use a real ABR, and lightweight tailpiece (and proper studs for both), hide glue in the joints, a proper trussrod without a straw on it, and all electronics supplied by the person wanting the custom build, they could perhaps build as good a guitar. or better, than Gibson. But I think one of the things that gives the Gibson custom shop an edge is their Mahogany, which is ridiculously light and closer to the originals in weight. I'm sorry but that Unicorn might look the part but the neck joint and truss rod covered in plastic would keep me from being a believer. One thing Gibson custom is doing is using known good examples of great bursts and trying to duplicate as much of the characteristics of those instruments, in both tone and appearance. Personally I don't care so much about the appearance, but anything that could contribute to tone of a burst is important to me. I own at least 40 guitars and I would trade all of them for a good 50's Les Paul, so as you can see I am very passionate about this subject. Recently I got sniped on an old 1952 Les Paul that I would have had to sell a few guitars to buy, which I would have gladly done!
Kuz Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I don't know if just being "old" is the trick. Everyone is gaga over the Clapton sound of his '60 LP, but when he cut Beano, that guitar would have been made a mere 6 years earlier, so the same as you having a 2009 build today. My Guild is already 40 years old, and my H140 is 28 years old. I don't think my Guild sounds much different today than it did in 74. I've only had the 140 for about 9 years, so I can't tell you what it sound like when it was made. More likely its more the case of a good instrument in combination with a good amp, and a hell of a good guitar player. Stir the pot and you get something better than the sum of the parts. The key is the wood (Honduras Mahogany) was different wood than today. The Honduras Mahogany of the 50s & 60s was light weight, premium wood. The Honduras mahogany of today is heavy, not particularly special (what ever Honduras Mahogany they can find, including wood from stumps) and thus inferior wood. In short, the average Mahogany wood of the 50s & 60s is rarely available as the premium wood of today. People joke about my Terry McInturff quotes, but he says he rejects more Honduras Mahogany than he keeps. And Terry say that the difference between a good guitar and a great guitar is ALWAYS the wood. So if the best Steak House in America can only get average beef, yep, you are going to get an average steak. That is why SOME boutique builders have an advantage of being more critical of the wood they use because they don't need as much as wood as mass producers. It has been and always will be about "how good is the wood available"..... then the skill of the builder...... and then the skill of the guitarist.
SniffnGrowl Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 T If Heritage would use a real ABR, and lightweight tailpiece (and proper studs for both), hide glue in the joints, a proper trussrod without a straw on it, and all electronics supplied by the person wanting the custom build, they could perhaps build as good a guitar. or better, than Gibson. But I think one of the things that gives the Gibson custom shop an edge is their Mahogany, which is ridiculously light and closer to the originals in weight. I'm sorry but that Unicorn might look the part but the neck joint and truss rod covered in plastic would keep me from being a believer. One thing Gibson custom is doing is using known good examples of great bursts and trying to duplicate as much of the characteristics of those instruments, in both tone and appearance. Personally I don't care so much about the appearance, but anything that could contribute to tone of a burst is important to me. I own at least 40 guitars and I would trade all of them for a good 50's Les Paul, so as you can see I am very passionate about this subject. Recently I got sniped on an old 1952 Les Paul that I would have had to sell a few guitars to buy, which I would have gladly done! Too chez Rockabilly. You are very passionate about Gibson guitars indeed.
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