H 150 vs LP r7, r8, r9, r0

[DetroitBlues]

If Heritage would use a real ABR, and lightweight tailpiece (and proper studs for both), hide glue in the joints, a proper trussrod without a straw on it, and all electronics supplied by the person wanting the custom build, they could perhaps build as good a guitar. or better, than Gibson. But I think one of the things that gives the Gibson custom shop an edge is their Mahogany, which is ridiculously light and closer to the originals in weight. I'm sorry but that Unicorn might look the part but the neck joint and truss rod covered in plastic would keep me from being a believer. One thing Gibson custom is doing is using known good examples of great bursts and trying to duplicate as much of the characteristics of those instruments, in both tone and appearance. Personally I don't care so much about the appearance, but anything that could contribute to tone of a burst is important to me. I own at least 40 guitars and I would trade all of them for a good 50's Les Paul, so as you can see I am very passionate about this subject. Recently I got sniped on an old 1952 Les Paul that I would have had to sell a few guitars to buy, which I would have gladly done!

 

If that's the case, I've seen several builders buy LP Jr. then modifiy them by removing the neck, adding a maple cap, binding the fretboard and adding traps to recreate a vintage Les Paul of which most of it is old growth wood. Maybe you could go that route?

[Gitfiddler]

All this discussion about comparing Heritage to Gibson is interesting, but really not relevant. They are totally different companies with diametrically opposite business plans.

 

The other thread about Heritage Good Wood can counter much of the discussion about their use of the best wood available to make guitars. They are not attempting to recreate the very guitars that they were building for Gibson back in the 50' and 60's. They are doing things the way they want to, like it or not. I own as many Gibson guitars as Heritage guitars...and love them each for what they are. As I attempted to illustrate with my photo of a 157 and 68 RI, they get along just fine...but are inherently different instruments...fine examples of the best in the business.

 

IF Heritage received a custom order to build a replica 'Burst', I'm sure it would be a monster guitar. But that is not their purpose. Di Angelico contracted Heritage to build for them, so we all know what the boys can do.

[Kuz]

All this discussion about comparing Heritage to Gibson is interesting, but really not relevant. They are totally different companies with diametrically opposite business plans.

 

The other thread about Heritage Good Wood can counter much of the discussion about their use of the best wood available to make guitars. They are not attempting to recreate the very guitars that they were building for Gibson back in the 50' and 60's. They are doing things the way they want to, like it or not. I own as many Gibson guitars as Heritage guitars...and love them each for what they are. As I attempted to illustrate with my photo of a 157 and 68 RI, they get along just fine...but are inherently different instruments...fine examples of the best in the business.

 

IF Heritage received a custom order to build a replica 'Burst', I'm sure it would be a monster guitar. But that is not their purpose. Di Angelico contracted Heritage to build for them, so we all know what the boys can do.

 

I agree, love them for what they are.... but we were just trying to answer the OP question.

 

Daniel and I usually agree more than not. I agree with Daniel on the ABR-1 bridge, and to a lesser extent on the hide-glue (does glue transfer tone??). But what I don't get is the tonal characteristics of the dreaded truss rod condom. Sometime originally does make a difference in tone, other times just because it was done a certain way back in '50s may not translate to a difference in real tonally quality.

 

Can someone describe the theory of "lack of truss rod cover = superior tone"?

[Spectrum13]

 

 

 

Can someone describe the theory of "lack of truss rod cover = superior tone"?

Not going to take the bait on an off color joke. My understanding is they use the straw to prevent glue from getting on the truss rod and preventing it turning / adjusting the neck. Repair to a frozen truss rod would require removing the finger board or other costly & rude methods. We have all seen these "help me my truss rod is broken" threads. Just like the straight pull headstock Heritage reserves the right to make "improvements" on the original design. Funny nobody has the impression having a larger headstock, smaller and lighter tuners, tuner holes and a more angled path from the nut to the post are required for a real 59 tone. But I can see how the glue could affect vibrations passing through the joints between.

[Yooper]

The question: Can Heritage make an H150 that rivals, for real, one of these LP reissues, or even the real deal?

 

Short answer: Yes, they can and do, if "rivals" means to be in competition with, or something that is as good or almost as good as another thing.

 

Longer answer:

 

I'd say "rivals" applies regarding appearance, construction, parts, and tone, as they are all subjective to a great degree anyway.

 

Depending on individual instruments, both Heritage and Gibson make guitars that sound, or are constructed, or appear better, (and worse,) than the other. Seems like a rivalry to me.

 

Then there's "rivals in cost"... Can Gibson make a Les Paul that rivals a Heritage 150 for the same cost? And can any Heritage rival the price of a 50 some year old Gibson?

[TalismanRich]

Besides the H150 vs the Rx resissues, I would like to know if any one has been able to compare the H157 Special Edition with the Gibson 54 VOS custom. You can definitely tell they were cut from the same cloth.

 

 

[Kuz]

 

 

Can someone describe the theory of "lack of truss rod cover = superior tone"?

Oops, I meant to say, "What is the theory behind lack of a truss rod "condom" (not TR cover) = better tone?

 

I know why they use the straws, I just never heard why guitars supposedly sound better without the TR "condom".

[bolero]

well I'd take the straw Heritage uses, over the thick rubber thing that Gibson uses ( used? ) which started the whole "truss rod condom" debacle

 

that much rubber injected all the way down the neck has to has an effect on the vibrations

 

a straw? I can't see it being nearly as invasive as the condom

 

no pun intended

[Gitfiddler]

Besides the H150 vs the Rx resissues, I would like to know if any one has been able to compare the H157 Special Edition with the Gibson 54 VOS custom. You can definitely tell they were cut from the same cloth.

 

 

 

Someone needs to do an in-hand comparison of these two milestone guitars.

[rockabilly69]

 

If that's the case, I've seen several builders buy LP Jr. then modifiy them by removing the neck, adding a maple cap, binding the fretboard and adding traps to recreate a vintage Les Paul of which most of it is old growth wood. Maybe you could go that route?

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but the cost of that mod, which is suspect at best, is not worth it. I'll wait till somebody has an original guitar that they are willing to part with at a reasonable price. If that doesn't happen, what I have will suffice. What I would like to find is a good '52, and mod it with a noninvasive Mojoaxe trap tailpiece which makes the guitar totally useable! I have one of his wrap tailpieces on my SG Special and I love it.

 

 

 

 

[rockabilly69]

well I'd take the straw Heritage uses, over the thick rubber thing that Gibson uses ( used? ) which started the whole "truss rod condom" debacle

 

that much rubber injected all the way down the neck has to has an effect on the vibrations

 

a straw? I can't see it being nearly as invasive as the condom

 

no pun intended

 

Yeah those Gibson condoms are serious dampers! But I don't want anything on the trussrod, rubber or straw, and I want a beefy trussrod!

http://www.historicmakeovers.com/frequently-asked-questions/truss-rod-replacement/

 

Last night I got together with one of my best friends who has an 2013 R9 that I felt, after our last get together, was the best sounding reissue I had heard to date. Well we painstakingly set up my R7 to the same specs and with the same strings. After we did that, the two guitars sounded almost identical! And we were plugging into some of the finest amps on the planet. A '66 Blackface Deluxe Reverb, a '65 Blackface Tremololux, and a handwired Marsall Bluebreaker reissue with a great sounding Celestion Blue in it. The tone that was coming out of that room could bring tears to persons eyes! As I said before, I think Gibson is building the best guitars that have built since the original Les Pauls were discontinued in 1960. For an example of the tone I'm talking about you can hear it in this little phone video of my buddy playing his R9 at a BBQ joint in SLC. I have different approach to playing, but I go for the fat honking mids and smooth top he's getting here.

 

https://youtu.be/5J7r3_4Z2gA

[davesultra]

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but the cost of that mod, which is suspect at best, is not worth it. I'll wait till somebody has an original guitar that they are willing to part with at a reasonable price. If that doesn't happen, what I have will suffice. What I would like to find is a good '52, and mod it with a noninvasive Mojoaxe trap tailpiece which makes the guitar totally useable! I have one of his wrap tailpieces on my SG Special and I love it.

 

 

 

 

I put the Mojoaxe wraptail on my R4. Intonation seems to be a bit more accurate, and no more Sitar sounds from the plain strings! Ain't playin' no Ravi Shankar tunes!!

[rockabilly69]

I put the Mojoaxe wraptail on my R4. Intonation seems to be a bit more accurate, and no more Sitar sounds from the plain strings! Ain't playin' no Ravi Shankar tunes!!

What? Now how are you going to get your George Harrison on:)

[Gitfiddler]

Those old '52's can be turned into a great playing guitar once the bridge is replaced. But the price of admission for old wood is getting crazy.

 

I'm happy with this 60th Anniv. non-custom shop version. Gibson USA nailed it.

 

[uniqlo]

well this is a question

 

to begin with

 

marv and a few others were there when the burst was made

 

but how well do any of you remember what you did at work ten years ago

 

then make it 56 years ago

 

and think about that

 

but at least they have the original glue wheel

 

if you can hear glue wheel origin in the tone of a guitar

 

maybe you can

 

heritage doesnt make anything like a reissue

 

unless you mean a norlin reissue

 

which they are basically making

 

heritages are norlin guitars and they use the templates from the norlin era

 

the shape is wrong the neck joint is wrong the headstock is wrong and that matters for resonance ask any sound engineer

 

the pickups arent even in the same place that they were in 1959

 

now gibson on the other hand

 

has measured 100s of real bursts since back when they did the guitar trader special and they

 

have come up with templates that are true to the "average" burst

 

and they have spent years re searching things

 

about which marv does not care

 

like neck joint angle and string tension and guidelines for wood

 

an h150 has about as much in common with a burst or an r9 as a tokai does

 

except the

 

glue wheel

 

thats original

[rockabilly69]

Those old '52's can be turned into a great playing guitar once the bridge is replaced. But the price of admission for old wood is getting crazy.

 

I'm happy with this 60th Anniv. non-custom shop version. Gibson USA nailed it.

 

That is a cool guitar, and you can palm mute with it!!! How does it intonate???

[rockabilly69]

Okay to bring it around to burst tone, through some tweeds no less....

 

https://youtu.be/ZoMdYSsDewk

[Gitfiddler]

That is a cool guitar, and you can palm mute with it!!! How does it intonate???

 

Thanks...Intonation is amazingly accurate. Not sure how they did that, but it is spot on.

 

Here's a better shot of the bridge's subtle compensated angle.

 

[rockabilly69]

 

Thanks...Intonation is amazingly accurate. Not sure how they did that, but it is spot on.

 

Here's a better shot of the bridge's subtle compensated angle.

 

 

I couldn't see the intonation ridge when I first looked, it really is a nice looking guitar. Is it chambered/weight relieved? What is the neck shape like?

[davesultra]

I always thought they were cool, and I almost bought one from Sweetwater when they had them for a super low price. I seem to remember them mostly being in the 9-10 lb. range.

[tbonesullivan]

Over at the hamerfanclub, there is a guy who used to work at the Gibson custom shop. He was there when they had the big gathering of the 59 bursts to take measurements, test play, etc. According to him, many of them were really not all that. If there is a guitar that old in really good shape, there's a reason for it. Most of the GREAT 59 Les Pauls were found by players years ago, and they played the hell out of them.

 

I've played R8s and R9s, and honestly I like my H150 more. Just seems to "feel" better, even with the "short" tenon

[Gitfiddler]

 

I couldn't see the intonation ridge when I first looked, it really is a nice looking guitar. Is it chambered/weight relieved? What is the neck shape like?

 

This 60th Goldtop is Non-weight-relieved, roughly 9.5 lbs (I've been told it's one of the lighter ones of the run). 50's neck is full but very comfy. Cool streaking in the dark rosewood board too. (see photo)

Gibson USA did a great job on this series, just as they did with the original 'Supreme' models.

 

I believe most guitar makers (large and small) can produce a great guitar if properly motivated. These limited editions (like our beloved Heritages) got the attention they deserved during design and build process.

[rockabilly69]

If there is a guitar that old in really good shape, there's a reason for it.

 

the biggest myth perpetuated on gear forums! The three best instruments I have bought have been in DEAD MINT condition. As for the Bursts that Gibson Shop measured I personally know some of the guys that own them, and they are ALL that. I can round up some clips of some if you would like.

[rockabilly69]

 

This 60th Goldtop is Non-weight-relieved, roughly 9.5 lbs (I've been told it's one of the lighter ones of the run). 50's neck is full but very comfy. Cool streaking in the dark rosewood board too. (see photo) Gibson USA did a great job on this series, just as they did with the original 'Supreme' models.

 

I believe most guitar makers (large and small) can produce a great guitar if properly motivated. These limited editions (like our beloved Heritages) got the attention they deserved during design and build process.

 

I think this is a good value in a guitar like an H150.

[mark555]

On a sideways glance at this thread, Kuz raised the point about ;glue transferring tone. I have heard guitar builders claim that glue gets in the way of tonal transferrance and that bolt on necks do it better. I don't know either way.

 

But I am pretty sure that Heritage can make anything as good as Gibson. It's a bit of a moot point for me though, I'll never be able to buy an R9 etc.