I need a crash course in Mesa Boogie Amps

[HANGAR18]

I need a crash course in Mesa Boogie Amps. From what I can tell, they are all STUPID expensive when new but on the used market, some models are discontinued by the manufacturer and the used value is in the basement. I'm inclined to think that Mesa Boogie, along with every other manufacturer of fill in the blank, is not immune from making the occasional dud that either, no one likes or that is a piece of junk suffering from an incurable bad design. So, I'm sure that each model of Mesa Boogie amp will have its own unique tone flavor, but I just don't want to buy the first Mesa I see and then have buyers remorse later. So, for those of you who know anything about this brand of amp, what would you say are the most desirable models and which are the ones to stay away from?

 

BTW, the most recent model I looked at from a Craigslist ad was called a...

MESA BOOGIE STILETTO ACE 1x12 50 WATT TUBE AMP where the asking price was $800.00

The idea is that I want to have less half-stacks in my humble abode, because I don't like big and heavy things as much as I used to and the idea of downsizing to a smaller amp seemed like a good idea. But if I am going to do a trade, the actual value of each needs to be at least close to equal so that is the part of the equation which comes after trying to figure out which Mesa amps are the better ones.

 

[barrymclark]

If you are looking for a blues amp, I gotta say I rather like the Express series for that. They can be typically had for a decent price. I got one used for maybe $700 or so.

[JeffB]

You are really going to have to try some of them out. Hopefully with someone that understands mesa's.

I love mesa amps and have yet to find one I cant get a good sound out of. I cant think of any real dogs amongst them. Some werent what the public wanted and some were a bit hard for some people to use.

Briefly, the Stiletto Ace 112 IS A REALLY HEAVY 112. The internet overwhelmingly reports that the Ace is bright, it is and it isnt.

What sort of music do you want to play?

They have many amps and they all sound different, they all still sound like Mesa's though.

[davesultra]

I've had a few Boogies and never kept them long. They are very "gainy" amps. The only one I had that wasn't super gainy was. Dual Rectifier Maverick 1x12 combo. I kept trying to like them, but they just weren't for me. The older Studio .22 amps had issues with the circuit boards due to excessive heat. I also remember the short lived Rocket 44 had issues too (I was among the victims of that one). Also, they usually are super loud amps.

[kidsmoke]

I need a crash course in Mesa Boogie Amps. From what I can tell, they are all STUPID expensive when new but on the used market, some models are discontinued by the manufacturer and the used value is in the basement. I'm inclined to think that Mesa Boogie, along with every other manufacturer of fill in the blank, is not immune from making the occasional dud that either, no one likes or that is a piece of junk suffering from an incurable bad design. So, I'm sure that each model of Mesa Boogie amp will have its own unique tone flavor, but I just don't want to buy the first Mesa I see and then have buyers remorse later. So, for those of you who know anything about this brand of amp, what would you say are the most desirable models and which are the ones to stay away from?

 

BTW, the most recent model I looked at from a Craigslist ad was called a...

MESA BOOGIE STILETTO ACE 1x12 50 WATT TUBE AMP where the asking price was $800.00

The idea is that I want to have less half-stacks in my humble abode, because I don't like big and heavy things as much as I used to and the idea of downsizing to a smaller amp seemed like a good idea. But if I am going to do a trade, the actual value of each needs to be at least close to equal so that is the part of the equation which comes after trying to figure out which Mesa amps are the better ones.

 

Mesa started when Randall Smith, as a local amp tech, tweaked Santanas Fender Princeton and made it into a new gain monster. Amp geek, which I'm not, can get into a lot more detail than that, but that's the thumbnail.

 

Unlike Fender, Mesa is CONSTANTLY evolving designs. Seems no single model stays static, as an offering, for more than a year or two.

 

I have never heard of a Mesa amp that is crap. They are uber engineered and tested and rolled out. Some don't find the market they hoped for, but the quality is always there. "The sound" isn't for everyone, but given the music you like, I think the "default" mesa sound would be more to your liking than most.

 

The express series is an amazing amp, you can get a wide range of tones from it, moreso, in my limited experience, than previous small mesa combo's. The Mark series is one of the all time iconic amp platforms, and the Mark V, as you've heard Gio and Jeff both say, is arguably the best amp they've found.

 

I for one don't find the used prices "cheap". In my mind 500$ for a 15 yr old amp with a PCB ain't "cheap", but, they're worth every dime. I've got a DC2 which is a 20 watt 112, which is over 50# and LOUD, and reasonably versatile, though not as much so as a modern Express. Mine is the same model that Dan, aka Rockabilly69, uses as his journeyman workhorse, and its a 20 yr old amp. There were 3-4 different iterations of this amp in a short period of time, and per a 70 yr old tech in Chicago, who was Boogie's first certified tech in the city in the 1970's, it's the pick of the litter. It was available for one model year, just like this. They never even printed an accurate owners manual for this specific model, it came and went so quickly.

 

Gio outta chime in....

[HANGAR18]

holy crap! I just realized that the vague memory of hearing the brand name of mesa boogie in the 1970's is the same company as the mesa boogie/mesa engineering I've only recently started hearing about in the 21st century. hahaha I didnt' realize that they were that old. For the past 35 years they have been out of sight and out of mind (in my case) and all I remembered were names like Peavey and Marshall with Carvin getting on my radar in more recent years too. It seems that I've got a whole lot of catching up to do.

[kidsmoke]

while they have in recent years "gained" a reputation as metal monsters, even some of our own jazzers have found an application.

 

Here's pressure noodling with his one of a kind, spruce topped 170 with P90's, through Mesa's indulgent, 100W limited edition Kingsnake.

 

https://youtu.be/jJ9SsgvSs9o

 

Here's the Boogie link for that amp, tells a bit about the history of Mesa as well. Nice little primer for you on the brand.

 

http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/king-snake.html

[Yooper]

Mesa and Fender are opposites in that Mesa's are for gain as Fenders are for clean. Both can do both, but Mesa's are meant for gain without pedals. I like having my DC 5 and Deluxe Reverb at each end of the spectrum.

 

They are different animals when it comes to dialing in sound. I can see how someone used to Fenders might not take to the more interactive controls on Mesas. There are more cool sound options on Mesas, also more uncool sounds. It takes some tweaking, but versatility is a huge factor in the Boogies.

 

Fortunately Mesa has some good setting suggestions in their manuals.

 

My 12" DC 5 has been solid and reliable for over 20 years. Never needed more power than those 50 watts, but at 60 lbs. I wanted something more portable.

 

So now I have the Express 7:25 and am exploring the myriad sound possibilities in that.

 

Try some out, but allow time for tweaking. It might not be "love at first sound", or maybe it will be. It should be a fun quest.

[Millennium Maestro]

For that darn loud heavy metal, you will never like the sound of a small open back cabinet.... Just sayin! Whats wrong with a head + 4x12?

[DOGBOY]

I have a 550 express plus I got used not long ago. I really only use the clean channel which is very sweet and articulate. The only difference between the express and the express plus is the plus has a 5 band equalizer. I do like the equalizer but probably not really that critical if you want to knock some dollars off. Also before I bought it I spoke with Dan W(Rockabilly69) about his MB thoughts and exactly what Kidsmoke said. Can't go wrong with the DC series but stay away from the 22, sounds good but hissing little bastard!.

[AP515]

A lot of good info above me. Here's my take on Mesa. They do have a reputation for High Gain, and it is well deserved. The Recto series was made for it and the metal guys like the triple recs but for me they are too sterile. I have a single RectoVerb and that is enough for me (but I'm not a metal guy). For luscious cleans right at breakup, my Lone Star Classic is tops. It's a 100/50 Watt 2x12 but it is just beautiful. Heavy as anything you'll ever try to move, but worth it.

 

The express series are indeed terrific amps. The 5:25 is El84 driven and the 5:50 is 6L6 driven. Decide which tone you are after because in the Express amps it makes a BIG difference. The 5:25 is very chimey and the 6L6 is, IMO, balanced. I couldn't live with the 5:25 but I tend to 6L6's anyway.

 

Mesa's are really good.

[Gitfiddler]

Boogies are great amps, although very expensive new, some models can be had for relative bargains after a few years.

 

You'll need to check out the spec sheets to see which might fit your style of playing and music.

 

My personal favorites (for jazz, RnB, Pop and Blues) is the mighty Mark IV. It's a little larger than a Princeton, weighs about 90 lbs with casters, and has 3 useable channels plus an EV speaker designed for Mesa. They come in head also, so if weight is an issue, check them out.

 

On a smaller scale, my '90's DC2 (thanks HOC'er MyOldFriend) is a fantastic little grab and go amp.

 

Do a search on Ebay for pricing once you've nailed down which Boogie fits your taste. And once you've narrowed it down, always remember to check the weight!!

[gpuma]

I am a Boogie fanboy just as much as a Heritage one, so my opinion might be biased.

 

I think I never heard a bad sounding Mesa. I sound like crap, but that's me, not the amp.

 

Currently own a Mark V head, which is complex but not difficult. 3 Channels. Zero o/d pedals on my board. I can't imagine wanting more of even just "different" gain, given the possibilities I have available. Nonetheless, it is not uncommon that even with the Mark V, some players like to push the clean channel with a pedal. By itself the clean channel is a headroom monster. The other two channels are gain channels...tons of different options there.

The main problem I have with the Mark V is that I never want to play anything else.

This is my setup with a vintage boogie cab (I talk about it here: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/topic/29129-ncd/):

 

 

in action:

 

 

 

I also have a small express 5:25 1x10 combo which is another little gem.

 

I believe that your best bet is to gravitate toward the Rectifier Series, if you like Metal.

[Grambo150]

Worth a watch

 

[Vanschoyck]

I've owned two. A Mark III that I had set up like gpuma in a 2 x 12 stack, and later I bought a 50 Caliber combo. Both amps are really good. When I played rock music all I used typically was one good clean sound and one good overdrive. I had a chorus in my rack and would turn it on manually when I wanted to use it.

 

To me it was ironic that the big amp sounded great in any situation, loud or quiet, and the small amp sounded much better up loud than it did at lower volumes. I attribute that to the Mk III being a much more versatile preamp. It was for sure more complicated and I had to go through the suggested settings that came with the amp to get my sound on the Mk III. Left to my own I'm not sure I would have been able to do much with it and might have just sold it soon after getting it. I sold it eventually just because it was too big and heavy for my current purposes, but often wish I had bought it in the combo format and kept it. I'm sometimes tempted to pick up a used one.

 

I still have my 50 Caliber. The preamp is much more like a Fender except for the slider eq.

[pressure]

I play a Heritage Johnny Smith through my Mesa Kingsnake. At 100 watts it has just enough headroom for jazz but it is really heavy at 65lbs. I just flipped the presence switch from Blackface to Tweed after playing the amp for 10 months and I like the tone way better. In the next year I might try the gain channel but maybe not. Don't want to rush into anything too soon.

[HANGAR18]

This is proving to be a whirlwind learning experience. Thanks to all. Keep your input coming.

[gpuma]

Go on the mesa boogie YouTube channel for demos

[Gitfiddler]

Check out the Mesa Boogie Hollywood Store. They always have cool USED Boogie gear and other stuff. Some of the consignment, closeout or demo amps can be a real bargain.

 

Don't click on this link if you are weak...like me.

 

http://mesahollywood.com/

[HANGAR18]

Check out the Mesa Boogie Hollywood Store. They always have cool USED Boogie gear and other stuff. Some of the consignment, closeout or demo amps can be a real bargain.

 

Don't click on this link if you are weak...like me.

 

http://mesahollywood.com/

 

Enabler! hahaha

[bluwoodsman]

I'd say decide on what tube sound you want first, 6l6 or El, then start looking.

 

The rectifier series are the only ones I wouldn't consider even if I struck it rich tomorrow--great metal amps but I don't like them for much else. Too thin for me.

 

Lots of good comments above. I'd just add a few more things from my perspective.

 

More modern Mark's and Lone stars and expresses get some mixed reviews but IMO they all are great IF you spend the time to fiddle with the ridiculous tone combinations. I think a lot of people want to plug into a fender clone and don't spend more than few mintues fiddling before rendering an opinion. Most mesa's take some time to truly know. Tone knobs really do sound different with small changes on the dial.

 

The early Mark 1 and 2 (and reissues) are not that complicated. Originals can fetch a pretty penny, but I still see IIB's go for more reasonable prices on occasion. The 2C+ is the holy grail for liquid lead and will set you back the most. Mesa still offers great service on original amps and new cabs etc. can be had, so if you like the idea of refurbishing an old classic that can be done if a beat up original mark can be found that has fixable issues.

 

Someone said they have alterred offerings over the years but they still offer the Mark V. I think that says something. I can't imagine a more versatile amp, but again take some real time with one before forming an opinion.

 

Check out the boogie board.

 

http://forum.grailtone.com/

[gpuma]

 

Check out the boogie board.

 

http://forum.grailtone.com/

 

+1 I found a lot of useful info there.

 

Not sure I would define the rectos as thin though. My single Rectifier (now in the capable hands of Mars Hall) was quite the opposite YMMV

[bobmeyrick]

I had a Mark IIB 1x12 combo for a few years, which I traded in for a Maverick 1x12 which I still have. The Maverick is fine for my playing (Blues/Jazz) and the two separate channels are easy to set up. I believe the successor to the Maverick is the Lone Star. The Maverick was my main amp until I got the Ceriatone OTS (which I use with a 1x12 cab with a Celestion G12-65), and I still use it when playing in smaller venues where space is limited.

 

I did have an interesting problem with the Maverick, however, which took a bit of sorting out. After playing for a few minutes, the clean/rhythm channel would suddenly increase in volume with an increase in distortion. It turned out that there was a problem in the switching system, with the lead channel bleeding through. I was able to find a good amp tech who was able to sort it, which involved replacing the opto-couplers and making a slight modification to the circuit board. It now works perfectly and has survived the test of a gig!

 

Interestingly I found this thread in the Gear Page - "Mesa Maverick/The poor man's Dumble"...

[gpuma]

After watching this video I got the MarkV-ites, which is the scientific name for the Mark V AAS. The only cure was buying one:

[tbonesullivan]

As others have said, the design is constantly evolving, which can make it somewhat hard to look for used amps, particularly from the 80s and 90s, before the "rectifiers" came about and made Mesa Boogie a big name.

 

that said, they don't make any crap amps. Even the express series has great tones, and they have great build quality. I have a DC-5, and I love the thing. It's amazing how tweakable they made the EQ.