As the company sale announcement looms......

[rmcgrath]

The reason Heritage is not as popular as Gibson, is because it doesn't say Gibson on whatever shaped headstock. If they do change the headstock shape then there will be a way to clearly identify the "original Heritages" from the "new post-original owners" Heritages. That possibly could make mine more collectible!!!

I agree with that. Heritage will never be as popular as Gibson, nor would I want it to be but in order for it to thrive or at least survive it needs a new audience or market that it appeals to. The fans on this site are great but small. I think a 2nd headstock option, one that appeals to a larger market, could be a game changer for the company. Even just a larger headstock like on the Super Eagle looks much better imo. Of course, the current headstock needs to remain an option for us who love, like, appreciate the look and heritage of it.

 

If an Ohio State grad, such as myself, can love something so much that hails from Meeechigan, then it must be a hell of a product!

[JeffB]

Sometimes I get the impression that people want to ignore Heritage for some reason.

 

Case in point.... Vintage Guitar magazine just did an article on 47 semihollow guitars. They showed quite a few small builders and boutique guys like Bilt, Melancon, McCurdy, Zion, Thornton, as well as bigger names like Gretsch, Fender, Gibson and Reverend. No mention of Heritage (who has both the 535 and the Mille which would have fit perfectly). Surely these guys know who Heritage is.

 

When JP died in September, I personally sent an email to VG to let them know that a person who had been involved in the guitar industry for over 50 years with Gibson and then founding Heritage had passed. They frequently publish notices about people who have died that were involved in the guitar industry, even dealers who have been around get mentioned. They never made a mention of JP in any of the issues that I have seen.

 

Maybe its a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. You have to keep pushing your product. It doesn't take an ad, but getting mentions in publications will generate interest.

 

The reason Heritage is not as popular as Gibson, is because it doesn't say Gibson on whatever shaped headstock. If they do change the headstock shape then there will be a way to clearly identify the "original Heritages" from the "new post-original owners" Heritages. That possibly could make mine more collectible!!!

Bang on.

 

The last company I worked for had no online presence. It is a company that has been in business for 30yrs and was a store people went way out of there way to visit through the 90's and very early 00's. A destination store.

What they didnt do was accept that online was going to be anything more than a fad. Stubborn and unwilling to embrace new business methods. The store had become a shadow of it self and going through sales record data I could track the steady and now snow balling fall from the top from 1999.

When I started back there for my last go at trying to resurrect the store/brand only 5-7% of there sales were online. Not only that but they screwed a big portion of those online sales up. They didnt treat their online image/persona as something to cultivate or something important.

When I left after exactly one year their online sales were up to around 35% and emails, fb messages, and out of state phone calls kept three of us busy. In store transactions were up 10ish%

Brand interest/awareness was all I cultivated. I didnt really do any showman type discounts or wacky crazy high dollar tv and radio ads though we did a very low key radio ad.

We upgraded and maintained the website keeping it current and interesting and used the usual ways to bring our website to the top of Google search. We also used fb, instagram etc

The bottom line was about a 30% increase in online sales, more traffic through the door, new customers who previously didnt know we existed and once again we were becoming a destination store even with out new FENDER or GIBSON!!!

The strengths of the company were its differences to every other local store. I cultivated and promoted that

I left after one year simply because if Im going to be working hard building a company/brand and increasing profits I may as well work hard building my own instead of someone else's

.....and if I have to be honest, musicians. So fricking tiresome to deal with whether customers, company owners or distributors.

[Shmockiebaby]

As a process consultant (schooled in the Toyota Way, and continuous improvement), I have seen a lot of factories across many industries. I'm sorry if that sounds like bragging, I'm just old and I've been around a long time. The first trait needed in a continuous improvement environment is humility, so I hope I haven't lost mine.

 

I have been to just about every guitar factory I can tour (Gibson Memphis, Martin, PRS, Huss & Dalton, Fender, Carvin/Kiesel). The key word here is "factory". I hate to tell you, but Heritage builds guitars in the same way that a guitar factory did in the 1950s.

 

The good side of this is all of the handwork. Watching the guys at the open house in August 2014 was amazing - the handwork, the "dance" against the sanding belt when shaping necks. Amazing stuff. Inspiring. But not how guitars are made (even in America) in 2015. And the lack of order and cleanliness is, sorry to say, appalling.

 

For factory work, in my opinion Martin is the best - best order, cleanliness, attention to detail (family ownership). PRS thinks they do a great job, but they do a lot of re-work without ever getting to root causes and fixing them (founder/figurehead with investor money). Fender is a close second to Martin (corporate environment, but run well). Gibson Memphis has humidity control issues (neck joint almost always has finish checking within 6 month, as woods acclimate to each other), and quality issues (how can their necks vary so much if they all get plec'd?). Carvin / Kiesel is amazingly modern and efficient, and does amazing quality work (disclaimer - my son knows Jeff Kiesel, and I just bought a guitar from them last week).

 

Huss and Dalton is the smallest and has the most hand work. But their work environment, and quality, is light years ahead of Heritage right now.

 

So the challenge for new owners will be to bring the company into 2015, and gain efficiencies and boost quality without losing the charm and grace brought to these fine instruments by human hands. Not an easy task. But definitely possible. As for value, some folks will always long for the old guitars, built the old way - even if they all show a bit of opportunity for improvement. One thing that we always tell folks that I train and consult with - you can copy product, but you cannot copy people and culture.

 

Good marketing would help too - that does help to make the current guitars a great buy, considering the amount of hand work that goes into them. Anyone else would charge 50% more. Gibson does, for similar instruments, often with significant quality control issues. Keep the value, and get the word out, and maybe the magazines will mention Heritage again.

 

I do hope the slim down the headstock on the arch tops a bit. I love my Sweet 16, but every time I reach for a tuner, I wish the headstock was smaller. Just aesthetics, and my humble opinion, as is everything else in this post.

 

Fingers crossed for a smooth transition! Sorry for the long post!

[JeffB]

As a process consultant (schooled in the Toyota Way, and continuous improvement), I have seen a lot of factories across many industries. I'm sorry if that sounds like bragging, I'm just old and I've been around a long time. The first trait needed in a continuous improvement environment is humility, so I hope I haven't lost mine.

 

I have been to just about every guitar factory I can tour (Gibson Memphis, Martin, PRS, Huss & Dalton, Fender, Carvin/Kiesel). The key word here is "factory". I hate to tell you, but Heritage builds guitars in the same way that a guitar factory did in the 1950s.

 

The good side of this is all of the handwork. Watching the guys at the open house in August 2014 was amazing - the handwork, the "dance" against the sanding belt when shaping necks. Amazing stuff. Inspiring. But not how guitars are made (even in America) in 2015. And the lack of order and cleanliness is, sorry to say, appalling.

 

For factory work, in my opinion Martin is the best - best order, cleanliness, attention to detail (family ownership). PRS thinks they do a great job, but they do a lot of re-work without ever getting to root causes and fixing them (founder/figurehead with investor money). Fender is a close second to Martin (corporate environment, but run well). Gibson Memphis has humidity control issues (neck joint almost always has finish checking within 6 month, as woods acclimate to each other), and quality issues (how can their necks vary so much if they all get plec'd?). Carvin / Kiesel is amazingly modern and efficient, and does amazing quality work (disclaimer - my son knows Jeff Kiesel, and I just bought a guitar from them last week).

 

Huss and Dalton is the smallest and has the most hand work. But their work environment, and quality, is light years ahead of Heritage right now.

 

So the challenge for new owners will be to bring the company into 2015, and gain efficiencies and boost quality without losing the charm and grace brought to these fine instruments by human hands. Not an easy task. But definitely possible. As for value, some folks will always long for the old guitars, built the old way - even if they all show a bit of opportunity for improvement. One thing that we always tell folks that I train and consult with - you can copy product, but you cannot copy people and culture.

 

Good marketing would help too - that does help to make the current guitars a great buy, considering the amount of hand work that goes into them. Anyone else would charge 50% more. Gibson does, for similar instruments, often with significant quality control issues. Keep the value, and get the word out, and maybe the magazines will mention Heritage again.

 

I do hope the slim down the headstock on the arch tops a bit. I love my Sweet 16, but every time I reach for a tuner, I wish the headstock was smaller. Just aesthetics, and my humble opinion, as is everything else in this post.

 

Fingers crossed for a smooth transition! Sorry for the long post!

Its a great post and worth the read for anyone breaking into the guitar building business.

You may have broken the HOC 3 paragraph rule but I dont think anyone wouldve mind if you went even a little more in depth.

Ive only been to Taylor, PRS and Martin. I enjoyed the Martin visit the most, the people were great! nice factory and a natural sense of history with out it being forced, cultivated or manufactured, it just is.

[Shmockiebaby]

My son and I were going to visit Taylor when we went to San Diego 2 weeks ago to see Carvin. But Carvin doesn't offer official tours, we were asking for a favor, and so the timing was fluid. And then I wound up buying a guitar there, and etc, etc, we couldn't make the 1pm Taylor tour. Next time. I'd like to see them and Deering, if possible.

[HANGAR18]

As a process consultant (schooled in the Toyota Way, and continuous improvement), I have seen a lot of factories across many industries. I'm sorry if that sounds like bragging, I'm just old and I've been around a long time. The first trait needed in a continuous improvement environment is humility, so I hope I haven't lost mine.

I have been to just about every guitar factory I can tour (Gibson Memphis, Martin, PRS, Huss & Dalton, Fender, Carvin/Kiesel). The key word here is "factory". I hate to tell you, but Heritage builds guitars in the same way that a guitar factory did in the 1950s.

The good side of this is all of the handwork. Watching the guys at the open house in August 2014 was amazing - the handwork, the "dance" against the sanding belt when shaping necks. Amazing stuff. Inspiring. But not how guitars are made (even in America) in 2015. And the lack of order and cleanliness is, sorry to say, appalling.

For factory work, in my opinion Martin is the best - best order, cleanliness, attention to detail (family ownership). PRS thinks they do a great job, but they do a lot of re-work without ever getting to root causes and fixing them (founder/figurehead with investor money). Fender is a close second to Martin (corporate environment, but run well). Gibson Memphis has humidity control issues (neck joint almost always has finish checking within 6 month, as woods acclimate to each other), and quality issues (how can their necks vary so much if they all get plec'd?). Carvin / Kiesel is amazingly modern and efficient, and does amazing quality work (disclaimer - my son knows Jeff Kiesel, and I just bought a guitar from them last week).

Huss and Dalton is the smallest and has the most hand work. But their work environment, and quality, is light years ahead of Heritage right now.

So the challenge for new owners will be to bring the company into 2015, and gain efficiencies and boost quality without losing the charm and grace brought to these fine instruments by human hands. Not an easy task. But definitely possible. As for value, some folks will always long for the old guitars, built the old way - even if they all show a bit of opportunity for improvement. One thing that we always tell folks that I train and consult with - you can copy product, but you cannot copy people and culture.

Good marketing would help too - that does help to make the current guitars a great buy, considering the amount of hand work that goes into them. Anyone else would charge 50% more. Gibson does, for similar instruments, often with significant quality control issues. Keep the value, and get the word out, and maybe the magazines will mention Heritage again.

I do hope the slim down the headstock on the arch tops a bit. I love my Sweet 16, but every time I reach for a tuner, I wish the headstock was smaller. Just aesthetics, and my humble opinion, as is everything else in this post.

Fingers crossed for a smooth transition! Sorry for the long post!

Great post! (For the record, I think I once heard Marv dispute the "hand made" claim that we here in the HOC place upon them. I believe that he claimed that Heritage guitars are manufactured in an assembly line fashion or something to that effect as you mentioned. Marv agrees with you on that point.) I would love to pick your brain sometime! I love all that process analysis stuff.

[yoslate]

The first trait needed in a continuous improvement environment is humility....

 

...Heritage builds guitars in the same way that a guitar factory did in the 1950s.

 

The good side of this is all of the handwork. Watching the guys at the open house in August 2014 was amazing - the handwork, the "dance" against the sanding belt when shaping necks. Amazing stuff. Inspiring. But not how guitars are made (even in America) in 2015. And the lack of order and cleanliness is, sorry to say, appalling.

 

 

So the challenge for new owners will be to bring the company into 2015, and gain efficiencies and boost quality without losing the charm and grace brought to these fine instruments by human hands. Not an easy task. But definitely possible. As for value, some folks will always long for the old guitars, built the old way - even if they all show a bit of opportunity for improvement. One thing that we always tell folks that I train and consult with - you can copy product, but you cannot copy people and culture.

 

Good marketing would help too - that does help to make the current guitars a great buy, considering the amount of hand work that goes into them. Anyone else would charge 50% more. Gibson does, for similar instruments, often with significant quality control issues. Keep the value, and get the word out, and maybe the magazines will mention Heritage again.

 

Fingers crossed for a smooth transition! Sorry for the long post!

 

I excerpted some of what I thought were the most salient points. This is a marvelous, insightful post, probably the most substantive one in this thread.

[schundog]

As a process consultant (schooled in the Toyota Way, and continuous improvement), I have seen a lot of factories across many industries. I'm sorry if that sounds like bragging, I'm just old and I've been around a long time. The first trait needed in a continuous improvement environment is humility, so I hope I haven't lost mine.

 

I have been to just about every guitar factory I can tour (Gibson Memphis, Martin, PRS, Huss & Dalton, Fender, Carvin/Kiesel). The key word here is "factory". I hate to tell you, but Heritage builds guitars in the same way that a guitar factory did in the 1950s.

 

The good side of this is all of the handwork. Watching the guys at the open house in August 2014 was amazing - the handwork, the "dance" against the sanding belt when shaping necks. Amazing stuff. Inspiring. But not how guitars are made (even in America) in 2015. And the lack of order and cleanliness is, sorry to say, appalling.

 

For factory work, in my opinion Martin is the best - best order, cleanliness, attention to detail (family ownership). PRS thinks they do a great job, but they do a lot of re-work without ever getting to root causes and fixing them (founder/figurehead with investor money). Fender is a close second to Martin (corporate environment, but run well). Gibson Memphis has humidity control issues (neck joint almost always has finish checking within 6 month, as woods acclimate to each other), and quality issues (how can their necks vary so much if they all get plec'd?). Carvin / Kiesel is amazingly modern and efficient, and does amazing quality work (disclaimer - my son knows Jeff Kiesel, and I just bought a guitar from them last week).

 

Huss and Dalton is the smallest and has the most hand work. But their work environment, and quality, is light years ahead of Heritage right now.

 

So the challenge for new owners will be to bring the company into 2015, and gain efficiencies and boost quality without losing the charm and grace brought to these fine instruments by human hands. Not an easy task. But definitely possible. As for value, some folks will always long for the old guitars, built the old way - even if they all show a bit of opportunity for improvement. One thing that we always tell folks that I train and consult with - you can copy product, but you cannot copy people and culture.

 

Good marketing would help too - that does help to make the current guitars a great buy, considering the amount of hand work that goes into them. Anyone else would charge 50% more. Gibson does, for similar instruments, often with significant quality control issues. Keep the value, and get the word out, and maybe the magazines will mention Heritage again.

 

I do hope the slim down the headstock on the arch tops a bit. I love my Sweet 16, but every time I reach for a tuner, I wish the headstock was smaller. Just aesthetics, and my humble opinion, as is everything else in this post.

 

Fingers crossed for a smooth transition! Sorry for the long post!

 

 

Its a great post and worth the read for anyone breaking into the guitar building business.

You may have broken the HOC 3 paragraph rule but I dont think anyone wouldve mind if you went even a little more in depth.

Ive only been to Taylor, PRS and Martin. I enjoyed the Martin visit the most, the people were great! nice factory and a natural sense of history with out it being forced, cultivated or manufactured, it just is.

 

 

 

I excerpted some of what I thought were the most salient points. This is a marvelous, insightful post, probably the most substantive one in this thread.

 

 

I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer, but, as a salesman, I'm pretty good at sizing people up. When I met "scmockiebaby" at PSP a couple years ago, I kind of figured that, wherever he may be, most of the time, he was one of the smartest guys in the room. Like most of these guys, he didn't advertise the fact. He exuded quiet confidence. I wish more posts on the HOC were as well written and thought out as this. I also wish he was a member of the transition team for the new owners!

[Shmockiebaby]

Wow. You really are a bad read of character. But thanks anyway!

[schundog]

Wow. You really are a bad read of character. But thanks anyway!

 

[ElNumero]

 

I excerpted some of what I thought were the most salient points. This is a marvelous, insightful post, probably the most substantive one in this thread.

"Salient" and "substantive", you just raised the bar for the most insightful "reply" on the thread. You could have been an English instructor!!

[davesultra]

"Salient" and "substantive", you just raised the bar for the most insightful "reply" on the thread. You could have been an English instructor!!

Wow! I didn't even know yoslate was from England!

[Genericmusic]

Wow! I didn't even know yoslate was from England!

As for shmockiebaby's post (thesis)

[Speedyeast]

Schmockiebaby indeed wrote a very good analysis of guitar production at Heritage and elsewhere. Heritage is still doing it the way that US guitar production was going on at mid-century 60 years ago. That's not bad at all. Think of all of the guitars we know and love that were made _that_ way.

 

The problem is: nobody else makes guitars that way anymore. Instrument production is HEAVILY CNC-based, with modern fastening techniques and comparatively little hand working. This is probably very much correlated with why we like Heritage guitars so much.

 

Whoever ends up purchasing Heritage Guitars will very likely perform a production make-over. The old Gibson/Heritage pin router (a precursor to the modern CNC router) will likely be retired (I'm shedding a tear as I type), and CNC tables installed.

 

Where will the line be drawn? No Richlite!

[SteveinToulouse]

If FMIC buys them (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) they will bury Heritage. Then in a few years they will be more collectable.

Is that a photo of the sun going down finally over Kalamazoo ?

[SteveinToulouse]

Heritage guitars are hard to find if you live outside the States. I bought my new 575 "blind" through the only dealer in France. I would like to think that they are collectable guitars but my impression is that they don't hold their value. IMO present marketing/distribution of the product is sadly lacking. I chose Heritage rather than Gibson not because of the price difference but due to the quality difference and I wasn't wrong in my choice.

 

At the moment Heritage guitars are amongst the best in the world but they don't have an equivalent "brand image". When I first started playing, some 40 years ago in UK, makes such as Rickenbaker (6 strings not basses) could be bought for nothing .... same with the Fender Jazzmaster and Jaguar and yet today through positive marketing they're being sold at incredible prices albeit too expensive. As I write there is a "guitar doctor in Toulouse (France) who has a very lucrative USA source of Kay/Silvertone guitares which he renovates and resells at unbelievable prices. Facebook has pages dedicated to Reverend and D'Angelico.

 

If there is to be change at Heritage then "brand image" is of utmost importance whilst hoping that present quality prevails. Major questions have to be asked over model range, production numbers, profitibility, machines versus hand build, modern marketing techniques and worldwide distribution.

 

I have only one thing to ask ....... please bring back the 357 ... I have a shoddy finished non-reverse firebird where you can see the 'orange peel' in a few places .... I would have liked to have had more of a choice of guitar maker !

[Genericmusic]

The latest I heard was the sale was completed in December and the buyer is the owner of the building at 225 Parsons and the original owners with be kept on for a set period of time. I do consider my source moderately reliable. Anybody else care to enlighten us?

[tbonesullivan]

That would be interesting. I would have assumed the owner of the property was a real estate or other corporation, as they are pretty much just renting/leasing out space in various parts of the building to several different companies.

[Polo]

The latest I heard was the sale was completed in December and the buyer is the owner of the building at 225 Parsons and the original owners with be kept on for a set period of time. I do consider my source moderately reliable. Anybody else care to enlighten us?

That's the same intel that I've been hearing from moderately reliable source as well.

 

Anything pop up in your conversations about the GoPro initiative and a musically themed food court yet?

[JeffB]

Is it time to start collecting pre Dec 2015 Heritages yet? Is this the ground floor we are standing on?

 

I just checked out the local Heritage distributor. My god! crappest website and anything you click on takes you to ebay, but no Heritages other than a generic stock photo of a 535.

Its like theyre set up to destroy any brand they can get their hands on.

[JeffB]

That's the same intel that I've been hearing from moderately reliable source as well.

 

Anything pop up in your conversations about the GoPro initiative and a musically themed food court yet?

Wut???

[varminthunter1]

The latest I heard was the sale was completed in December and the buyer is the owner of the building at 225 Parsons and the original owners with be kept on for a set period of time. I do consider my source moderately reliable. Anybody else care to enlighten us?

This has been a very insightful thread. I look forward to hearing about the transition to new ownership. I truly believe there is real value in these guitars. Its a shame the world doesn`t know it.

Yes, our Heritage guitars will go up in price. That is the way of business. It won`t stop me from buying another one, or two.

[bolero]

...so, who is the new owner?

 

WAL-MART?

 

RE-MAX?

 

PEPTO-BISMOL?

 

MASSEY-FERGUSON?

 

COCA-COLA?

 

DUNLIVIN-DUNROAMIN?

[Horace]

It's not easy for me to suggest improvements. I love the Heritage made guitars. I think their prices are both good and fair. The quality of their products seems better than the product quality of their larger and better known competitors. i don't know if they are profitable or not. I don't know if they have wanted to grow or if they are operating at the size and scale they've wanted to be at all along. Without knowing the answers to those questions you can't really know what problems to solve. They've managed to produce the guitars that customers love for 30+ years through some very bad economic times. They've kept a payroll during those decades while many of their competitors have been bought out and their work forces, product lines, and brands have been reduced and often eliminated altogether. All the folks at Heritage have done something truly wonderful for a long time.

 

"If" growth is in fact a goal, many have suggested the way to do this is with an investment in marketing. Assuming profitability is and has been marginal, then the marketing investment will need to be covered by loans, increased prices, reduced material costs, and / or reductions in build process costs. Increased prices and reduced material costs are definitely not something I want. Loans need to be paid back with interest. Reduced costs from improvements in the build process could possibly yield some investment monies but great care should be taken to not damage the artistry needed in certain parts of the process. I think employee satisfaction is, has been, and must continue to be a key to the Heritage success.

 

I give the current management team and employees tremendous credit for all they've accomplished so far. I wish the new management team, the employees, and the current and future customers nothing but the best. As always, it will take lots and lots of hard work, many well thought out decisions, and plenty of good luck.

[High Flying Bird]

...so, who is the new owner?

 

WAL-MART?

 

RE-MAX?

 

PEPTO-BISMOL?

 

MASSEY-FERGUSON?

 

COCA-COLA?

 

DUNLIVIN-DUNROAMIN?

Khrushchev & Kennedy

 

Buffalo Springfield

 

Rowan & Martin