50's vs modern wiring

[romk]

Hi,everyone!

I wonder which wiring scheme is used on Heritage guitars? And which one is preferable for you?

[kidsmoke]

mine came modern, I ripped it out in favor of 50's

 

CTS 550K pots, .022 oil filled caps, braided wire wired to retain the highs. combine that with faber hardware and you're golden

[davesultra]

Heritage guits will come with the modern wiring setup.

[Yooper]

I prefer the '50s wiring because it allows volume cuts without reducing the tone level as much as modern wiring will do.

[Kuz]

All of the above dead on.

 

mine came modern, I ripped it out in favor of 50's

 

CTS 550K pots, .022 oil filled caps, braided wire wired to retain the highs. combine that with faber hardware and you're golden

+1 all my guitars are set up exactly like this!!!

 

The only people that prefer modern wiring are jazz players. They like the high end roll off and the tone (and volume) react more dramatic with less turn.

 

The only negative to 50s wiring is the tone knobs have to be turned down a lot farther (down to like 5) to get the same response as modern wiring tone knobs (turned down to 8-8.5).

[tulk1]

550k pots?

[kidsmoke]

550k pots?

 

 

this from a popular custom harness vendor, who I used on my semi

 

Benefits to upgrading your guitars electronics

Stock guitar wiring is just not as good as it can be. Many times the pots, caps and switches are cheaply made import types and the modern wiring scheme tends to add even more muddiness to the circuit. I use the best CTS pots and Switchcraft switches and output jack as well as oil filled capacitors. Many people do not realize that all CTS pots are not made the same. Standard CTS pots may be 20-30% tolerance so a 500K pot may actually only read 450K or a 250K pot might read 180K. Many cheaper CTS pots have zinc threads and shafts and a thin silk screened track that tends to wear out quickly and cause problems.

 

I use the best CTS 500K 9% tol. pots built to 550K specs that actually read 520K-570K, and they have brass threads, brass shafts and carbon tracks just like the old school pots did. They also have a smooth Audio taper without the sudden drop from 10-8 that a lot of other pots have. The 250K CTS pots I use are 9% tol. and built to 275K specs . The higher reading pots also add more clarity than the lower grade pots.

 

Along with 50's wiring to help retain the highs and oil filled capacitors which are warmer and smoother sounding my wiring harnesses do not choke off the highs or muddy up the sound of your guitar like the stock wiring does. Make sure to upgrade your guitar wiring before installing new pickups so you can really get the most out of them.

[tulk1]

Interesting. Gotta say I just learned something. When I've replaced pots I generally get RS's pots valued at 250K or 500K, depending on the application. Next time, I'll look at overwounds.

[rmcgrath]

Kidsmoke,

 

Can you share the name of the "popular custom harness vender"? I'm in the process of researching this topic. I'm looking to upgrade my H-150 (with Lollar P-90s). From what I can tell so far it is best to use 500k range pots with P-90s same as with humbuckers.

 

I just recently heard of 550k pots when looking at ThroBak's harnesses. "The 500k Plus specification assures the added treble response of a vintage 50's Les Paul wiring harness."

[romk]

I've heard Gibby pots read about 350. As far as CTS is concerned, I consistently bought their pots for a wah-wah from different vendors and all of them lasted less than a year. To me CTS is no longer a premium brand.

[kidsmoke]

Kidsmoke,

 

Can you share the name of the "popular custom harness vender"? I

 

here you go. I'd heard about him here and there, and when I bought my Sheptone Tributes, Shep specifically recommended him. Good enough for me.

 

http://jonesyblues.com/

[rmcgrath]

Thank you Kidsmoke,

 

I recently came across one of his videos on 50's wiring while researching capacitors but hadn't checked out his site yet. Thanks again.

[kidsmoke]

Thank you Kidsmoke,

 

I recently came across one of his videos on 50's wiring while researching capacitors but hadn't checked out his site yet. Thanks again.

 

my pleasure. I highly recommend him. You figure he probably gets asked the same 5 or ten questions from every dude that buys from him. Despite this, he was quick patient and thorough in his replies to me, and once I put the money down, I had the harness in a week. Mine was a 50's harness for a 335/Semi. No reason to think RS or Mojotone aren't fine as well, but he's a little guy doing nothing but this and re-selling a few well regarded brands of p'ups. He earned whatever profit he made on the sale, I assure you.

 

[TalismanRich]

A while back, I ran across these guys who make harnesses. If you are OCD about how the innards of your wiring looks, they have PIO bumble bee style caps. Made in Tulsa. I've never used their stuff, just something I've run across.

 

 

 

Emerson Custom prewired kits. They also make a few pedals.

[RickFinsta]

In what instance have you actually used your guitar tone controls? I'm honestly curious as I've been playing, recording, and sound engineering for twenty years and have never seen it done live or done it myself.

[kidsmoke]

you never touch your tone controls? I do rountinely. Last night I was playing through a wah...that open tone was perfect for what I wanted and just a little to bright. backing off on the tone got me there

 

When I'm fancying myself the second coming of Al Green and accompanying myself on Simply Beautiful...all those barred minors....neck on my semi dialed back to about 8...perfect.

 

I watch guys hitting tone knobs all the time. I'm befuddled.

 

Maybe you switch guitars when I roll a knob? You put down the 'buckers and pick up the singles? Me, one guitar a few pedals and one amp....I use all the tools at my disposal which commonly includes my tone knobs.

[kidsmoke]

6:18, my man larry decides the bridge needs a tad more air...

 

https://youtu.be/AnZjhc3005k

[tsp17]

you never touch your tone controls? I do rountinely. Last night I was playing through a wah...that open tone was perfect for what I wanted and just a little to bright. backing off on the tone got me there

 

When I'm fancying myself the second coming of Al Green and accompanying myself on Simply Beautiful...all those barred minors....neck on my semi dialed back to about 8...perfect.

 

I watch guys hitting tone knobs all the time. I'm befuddled.

 

Maybe you switch guitars when I roll a knob? You put down the 'buckers and pick up the singles? Me, one guitar a few pedals and one amp....I use all the tools at my disposal which commonly includes my tone knobs.

+1. I'll roll off the treble or volume frequently for different songs or purposes.

[MrB]

I usually set the tone before a song starts, then roll the volume up and down, as needed, while playing.

Though the tone might get tweaked a bit if it's not perfect.

 

But back to the main topic:

I've heard the standard (modern) Heritage and G!@$&* wiring are different. Does anyone have wiring diagrams for these,

and know the effects of the difference?

 

Thanks,

Mr B

[davesultra]

As far as standard LP wiring is concerned. Both the Heritage and Gibson wiring are the same. The '50s style wiring is different.

[kidsmoke]

there's wiring approach (50's or Modern) and then there's materials, such as types and values of pots, mylar vs PIO capacitors, THEN there's who's doing the soldering.

 

I know my 535 was originally sold new by Ed Roman. It came with his "proprietary" BlackBack Duncans. I speculate that his shop was also responsible for the harness, but I don't know that (Maestro?).

 

I guess my point is that, while Heritage and G****n may both use the standard "modern" wiring path in their harness's, that still leaves a lot of variable's open. I look at harness and p'ups on a guitar like tires on a car. The set they came with are probably "fine", but options exist, and your taste and demands may lead you elsewhere. No harm no foul either way.

 

An observation...if you go to Gibson's Custom shop site and read up on the specs of an R9, they give ridiculous detail on everything, diameter of the pole pieces in the pickups, width of the slots in the nut, weight of the strap buttons!!! But no specs on the harness??!?!?!?! Amazing to me. So I don't know. Wouldn't you think a R9 would have 50's wiring and bumblebees...or some such?

 

Anyway...last bit of probably useless info. This. A stock harness from a 2002 535

 

[ironmike]

Tone controls are everything ,I use them all the time,.I can

Understand that most never learned to. Learning how to listen seams to be optional from what I been hearing.

[davesultra]

Tone controls are everything ,I use them all the time,.I can

Understand that most never learned to. Learning how to listen seams to be optional from what I been hearing.

Huh? Wha?

[DetroitBlues]

DOH!!!! I forgot to ask for this to be done!

[Steiner]

KidSmoke - you have done an excellent job with this thread! The topic comes up every year or two; it never really caught me eye 'till I tried Kuz's recommendation. He pointed out the RSGuitarworks' upgraded harness. While in a whimsical mood, I ordered one. It took my (previously unknown) muffled guitar and brought it out into the light. It sounded like a thick blanket had been removed from in front of the speaker cabinet. I have never had better results for the money. Not with amps, tubes, strings, different woods, speakers, cables, nothing. If you're going to spend $100 one one item to improve your guitar system this year, get a new harness.

 

Two things I learned in this thread - 550k pots and brass shafts. I didn't know either were available.

 

I thought audio pots were a handicap to guitars - an old thread on this topic had a link to a comparison between audio and linear pots showing the circuit difference. Logically, to me, the audio pots seem to be a better choice. I'm going to give them a try.

 

I like your analogy to tires. I see the harness more akin to the exhaust system. The guitar and playing being the engine/horsepower whereas the harness/exhaust system being properly tuned to provide optimum flow. In any event, thank you for the thread.