Heritage "California Six"

[111518]

 

actually the only part of the listing that is legit. Well, that and the fact that its a gorgeous awesome guitar, like every other 150.

 

I wish I could agree, but although two of the Heritage founders were actually employed in 1959, I've never read --and correct me if I'm wrong-- that either were in 1959 directly involved in the substantive making of that year's Les Pauls: carving or setting necks, binding, fretting, finishing. Why, in a company that by 1959 had been in continuous operation for more than 50 years and had many experienced builders, would anyone position relatively new hires at crucial skilled steps of guitar construction? And, if inexperienced makers could produce the magic of the '59's, why would it matter today that these guitars are made by long-time builders? These claims don't pass the filter.

 

I love Heritage guitars, and part of the reason is absolutely the continuity of craftsmanship and technique between the golden era of Gibson guitars and Heritage guitars today. But when advertising makes specific, but ridiculous, claims, it undermines the legitimacy of valid claims. These ads, for example, at one point claim the guitars are hand made, and at another claim they are made with the same tooling as the '59's. Can you have it both ways? Would anyone really agree that these guitars are made by the "same crew" that made the '59's?

 

Part of the appeal, to me, of Heritage guitars has always been an honest guitar in a great tradition at an honest price --and let others have (and pay for) the hype and claims to facsimile mojo. Honest has always been key to how I've described and recommended them to other players. I can understand that the new owners, or maybe it's this particular dealer, might want to experiment with new marketing strategies that go further on capitalizing on the unique company history. A marketing balloon, as Mars Hall describes it. But to me this version of that balloon seems a lead zeppelin (oh, wait a minute, somebody already used that one) at best, and potentially dangerous in its impact on the reputation that has given Heritage a place in the market.

 

I'd much rather be writing about what a beautiful guitar the one in the pic seems to be, than about the dishonesty of the advertising.

[kidsmoke]

Fair critique, 111518.

 

I doubt Heritage itself has anything to do with the language in that listing.

 

"built by the same crew" most assuredly an overstatement. I've come to understand that Marv was in "White Wood" in 58-59, and I'm also under the impression(?) that he was involved in developing the Firebird neck through...a complete departure from any other construction happening at the time. The Firebird hit stores in 63. Meaning it was in development prior...that would only be a year or two removed from the revered '59 production dates, point being he was a talented dude in the thick of things. Another note, aside from the fact that Gibson was in play for decades byt the mid 50's, the solid body was a radical new concept for them. From my manufacturing and production experience, the notion that young hotshots were sent to develop the new line, while the seasoned pro's kept plying their craft on the L5's and such would be an appropriate move.

 

Another note, there were a little more than 1600 Les Paul's built that year, that's more than 30 a week. With the techniques and expansive models available, there were a LOT of folks involved in finishing guitars, and these three among them.

 

You're right though, there is so much great about the story, hyperbole is unnecessary.

[pressure]

Mr.11158 if you take a look at the images posted on this forum from past PSPs you will see the tooling referred to that is still in use today. So that is not an exaggeration. As to the people making Heritage guitars today that were involved at Gibsons back then all you have to do is talk to them and they will tell you what they were doing and when, no mystery. Ren is a great source for history and I believe he was at Gibsons in 1957 following in his father's footsteps who was there before that.

[Millennium Maestro]

 

calling our dealers to reply to one simple question regarding this axe and listing.

 

WTF?

 

Guy? Paul? Jay?

I say Kudos to that shop in California for trying to do something unique, it is not easy selling your own concept, I hope they have a great clientele for their merchandise. As you all know it is made in Kalamazoo, it uses the same wood from the same piles at 225 Parsons, but it is a dealer custom run(Kind of reminds me of the 157-W, spec'd out with Vintage correct clone pickups) These pickups were probably dealer supplied.

Heritage builds excellent guitars, They have been a steal of a deal for years! Factory model guitars are still a steal, Go custom... be prepared to pay for all the extra man hours and extra materials.

 

Wait till you see my $5000+ custom 137/157 in which I supplied some of my own wood! (Heritage frowns upon using others wood because of the risks) or my personal custom 157 with a $7500+ list price. I may have a tough time selling 1 and the other is never intended to be sold.

 

1 year ago I was working on a one of a kind special run, I needed a wood supplier to source special materials to accommodate me... As it stands I don't have the heuvos to even attempt it. I have advised several clients to be conservative in their order request because of the expenses of going into the custom category.

*THERE IS NO OTHER FACTORY MAKING HANDMADE, CUSTOM GUITARS ON EQUIPMENT WITH THIS KIND OF HISTORY!*

 

Are you gonna look at custom Gibsons?? Not at these prices YES, They are not gibson... But they are a company looking to profit off their products just like Gibson only Heritage is not manufacturing the next joke... They are the REAL DEAL!

[FredZepp]

 

I wish I could agree, but although two of the Heritage founders were actually employed in 1959, I've never read --and correct me if I'm wrong-- that either were in 1959 directly involved in the substantive making of that year's Les Pauls: carving or setting necks, binding, fretting, finishing.

 

 

Marv Lamb ( and Jim ) both started out in white wood sanding. Marv moved into the neck department ( along with still doing some white wood sanding ) in 1957 or so. His skill was such that he was made a line supervisor in the neck department , which he continued when that department was moved to the new section of the plant in 1960.

 

One of the most prominent sources of pride that both Jim and Marv have expressed is the opportunity to have learned the craft from the original craftsman at the plant at that time. The environment at Parsons Street at that time was one of the workers taking great pride in their craft.

 

 

Marv Lamb:

" My father worked at Gibson. I was working at a bakery in Kalamazoo in 1956. He started in January and i got him to get me a job.

Dad started working in the lumber yard, that is where they cut the lumber in the "rough mill". " [ Marv's brother and sister-in-law would also eventually work at Gibson in Kalamazoo also ]

Going back to the 50's, where did you go to work after sanding?

" After about a year , or a year and a half, I went to work in the neck department. Making necks, belt sanding necks."

Was there a saw or something to carve the neck?

" It was done by hand. The necks came from the mill room in a rough shape. We would take them and glue the fingerboards on them, glue head veneers on them. Then I would take and shape that neck with s slack-belt sander. And we had a guy that would carve the heels; the heels were kind of square. He'd use a spindle carver; it was like an eight blade knife sticking out on a spindle. He would carve the heel and the flair. Then I would take and roll the neck on that slack-belt sander, and round the neck. Then sand it up. Then I'd go over to a spindle sander, which was basically like a spindle carver. Then I'd have a tube sander, and I'd sand it up some more."

Now you had quite a bit of control over the shape of the neck then?

" Absolutely. I hand shaped a lot of necks. ....."

" We had gauges to measure the thickness and we had radius gauges for the curvature of the neck- the roundness. There were certain gauges for certain necks, and certain fixtures for certain necks.

And as much hand work as we did on them, I promise you, they varied. But we got as close as we could, once you learned how to do a thing, you'd get them pretty consistent.'

" I was doing all that white wood work and neck work during that period 1956-59 ( on the first floor of the original building ) When I went out to the new area (the 1960 expansion ) I was still a 'line leader'. At that time, we hired a lot more people."

[ NOTE: Les Paul Standard 'Burst owners are well aware the the 1960 Les Paul Standards neck has a pronounced flat profile verses the rounder U-shaped neck of the 1959 'Burst. The neck machines were relocated in late 1959/ early 1960 at the same time the neck profiles changed. Neck profiles changed back to the U-shaped profile in 1963. ]

( Edited from Gibson Guitars: Ted McCarty's Golden Era )

[holyroller]

Is a h150 the real deal or do you have to spend 6/7/8 grand to get the real deal?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bolero]

wow that is great info, thanks Fred!

[holyroller]

What a stellar amount of info.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Polo]

I may have confirmed with a few friends in Kalamazoo that this advert is indeed straight out of the Ed Roman playbook.

IE: Some Truth, Mostly self proclaimed overpriced hype.

 

Can't fault a fella for tryin......as they say, don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

Here are 4 "nods to the '59 burst" that a little nicer than most. IE: Throbaks, ABR-1, 20-30 yr Brazilian fretboards, 50's wiring/Luxe Bumblbee's, Marv Carv .883-.900@1st neck rolls, 20-30 yr aged 1 piece hog bodies , 8.5lbs or less

 

Not a one of them cost over even half the price of the "California Six".

 

[kidsmoke]

AND- those have faded cherry rims....which that sample in the ad glaringly omitted, IMHO.

 

oh, and Polo, you and your bound headstocked/braz boarded/throbak loaded/bumble bee capped 150's can bite me.

 

I mean that in the best possible way.

[pressure]

Thanks for the info Fred and thanks to Polo for those images. Don't forget there's a good reason it's called Heritage.

[bolero]

Polo, those are beautiful guitars!!!

 

 

as amusing as that "6" ad is, it may serve the purpose of elevating the Heritage brand in the eyes of some naysayers

[Polo]

Thanks gents. Wish all 4 were mine. Only 2.

 

I'm wishing the seller all the best.

[Conneazoo]

.VS PRS!!

[HANGAR18]

Polo for the win!

[High Flying Bird]

Fred, I just reread the article again and was hearing Marv's voice and seeing his facial expressions the whole time. ;^)

[Gitfiddler]

 

$6,499.99! Really?!

 

15% off sale!

 

Now only $5,524.99!!

[FredZepp]

Fred, I just reread the article again and was hearing Marv's voice and seeing his facial expressions the whole time. ;^)

Yes.... one of the benefits of having been lucky enough to spend some time with these legends of guitar crafting.

 

It's a pleasure to hear Marv, or Jim or any of these guys from Parsons Street relate their vast experiences from the early days...

[bolero]

Amen to that!